GDT Lightning at Sabres 11-29-17 7pm MSG GR

[SwampD]

We just couldn't score. I have no problem with the effort I saw from them last night. In fact, I was pretty encouraged by it. We had more than enough zone time against a pretty good team.

 

We just couldn't score. Good lord, how many years we've been saying that.

[GASabresIUFAN]

He does not have a good track record of making good decisions. Terry hired Jason and Jason hired Phil. If Phil is a disaster, it has to reflect poorly on Terry.

We out shot TB and were even on scoring chances. These guys simply suck.

[Jacque Richard]

Worst shooting team, can they ever hit the net

[inkman]

We just couldn't score. I have no problem with the effort I saw from them last night. In fact, I was pretty encouraged by it. We had more than enough zone time against a pretty good team.

 

We just couldn't score. Good lord, how many years we've been saying that.

I rarely jump to the effort card as it's usually not the case. What I witnessed last night was good effort, poor excecution. Either they aren't buying into Phil's system or they don't understand his system. Whichever it is, Phil better get it turned around quick. I suspect he has more than one season of latitude but if the vultures start circling, Who knows?

[PASabreFan]

Didn't see the game. Can someone tell me what the crowd was like? In terms of % attendance, noise factor, booing factor, etc...? Thanks!

 

I think it's time for fans to stop buying tickets and attending the games. But for those who already purchased tickets, go to the games and boo the ###### out of these pieces of ###### for all 60 minutes, if you can. Not sure this will wake up the players, but it will at least be cathartic for us all to see and hear.

It was as dead as can be expected. There was only one show of disgruntlement that I recall and that was pointed at Eichel pretty late when he gave up the puck in the Tampa zone with the goalie pulled. It wasn't booing so much as a roar of disgust. He's going to start hearing it. The honeymoon is ending.

[Jacque Richard]

The franchise not just housley, you could bring in the best coach and have the same result with these lightweights

[That Aud Smell]

We out shot TB and were even on scoring chances. These guys simply suck.

 

I can't get to the site from where I am (natural stat trick, I think), but I saw a #fancystats graph on where the Sabres' shots came from. It's maybe misleading to say the Sabres had a lot of SOG, given where they came from.

 

I watched a tiny bit of the game last night. I can't get off my obsession with ROR being too slow and too often behind the play, and what I saw last night did nothing to help that. I saw that he led the team in TOI. I know, of course, that he is a diligent and responsible player, but it's frickin' weird how inconsequential he's been this year. That leads me to my sense that he's out of step with how the game's being played.

[bcsaberks]

Thorny has it right. Hamilton is a dinosaur stuck with dinosaur thoughts. It's not perimeter players or anything like that, it's just these guys believing in themselves and doing something about it. Right now, they're not

 

Completely agree on both points.  Hamilton gets Kane to validate his thoughts because Kane is like sure here's your soundbite blah blah blah get me out of here.  On the belief piece + coach, just have to ask what this team would look like with Babcock.  I think much better.  Does Toronto have more talent?  Yes seems like a little.  And yes our D is injured. But does that account for 10 game gap?

 

Didn't see the game. Can someone tell me what the crowd was like? In terms of % attendance, noise factor, booing factor, etc...? Thanks!

 

I think it's time for fans to stop buying tickets and attending the games. But for those who already purchased tickets, go to the games and boo the ###### out of these pieces of ###### for all 60 minutes, if you can. Not sure this will wake up the players, but it will at least be cathartic for us all to see and hear.

 

Was there Friday for Edmonton. Sold out and full stands.  Obviously McDavid + Friday + Holiday helps.  First period both teams looked completely uninspired and boring.  Sat w/ Chet & Muffy, 9th row blue line.  After one whistle I could hear a guy in section across ice from mine chirping Jack (probably after he missed the net for the 6th time).  If I could hear it, Jack could hear it.  

 

I can't get to the site from where I am (natural stat trick, I think), but I saw a #fancystats graph on where the Sabres' shots came from. It's maybe misleading to say the Sabres had a lot of SOG, given where they came from.

 

I watched a tiny bit of the game last night. I can't get off my obsession with ROR being too slow and too often behind the play, and what I saw last night did nothing to help that. I saw that he led the team in TOI. I know, of course, that he is a diligent and responsible player, but it's frickin' weird how inconsequential he's been this year. That leads me to my sense that he's out of step with how the game's being played.

Back to EDM game + booing.  ROR was single biggest Sabre suck in that game in my opinion.  I think he had 5 consecutive turnovers via bad passes through neutral zone.  He got mildly booed by the crowd (myself included), unsure if it was audible on TV.

[PASabreFan]

Was there Friday for Edmonton. Sold out and full stands.  Obviously McDavid + Friday + Holiday helps.  First period both teams looked completely uninspired and boring.  Sat w/ Chet & Muffy, 9th row blue line.  After one whistle I could hear a guy in section across ice from mine chirping Jack (probably after he missed the net for the 6th time).  If I could hear it, Jack could hear it. 

The Detroit game, Jack was getting it pretty good from several guys in my 300 section. I think it's only going to grow.

[WildCard]

The Detroit game, Jack was getting it pretty good from several guys in my 300 section. I think it's only going to grow.

Well that's depressing

[inkman]

I think it's only going to grow.

At 46, I still use this line. I'm a grower not a show-er.

[Iron Crotch]

Hires a former player and an assistant from a Stanley cup finalist. It’s the players who don’t care enough. This is not a gritty group either.

 

In particular our bottom-6 not only don't score, but the don't have much grit. IMHO, that's on the GM.

[Doohickie]

It's not about this season anymore. It's not even about the draft. It's about what Botterill can do to remould this team.

 

Botterill is our only hope. I'm not saying I'm confident in him, but the team as currently constructed is, I believe, incapable of finding their way out of this mess on their own.

 

I also think we have found our Patrick Kane, but not our Jonathan Toews. We don't have a captain, the guy who represents the lifeblood of this team. Our identity. We need to find this player.

 

We traded him to Minny (Foligno might have been that guy on this roster).  He's gone and, you're right- his replacement is not yet on the roster.  I think Jack may be a future C, but right now he's putting too much pressure on himself, holding his stick too tight, to worry about being a leader.

explain vegas knights then

 

Big difference between building a team new (with the benefit of an expansion draft) and transitioning from a clusterfrick with some bad contracts to a good team.  The Sabres have baggage.  Vegas has none.

Jack is a 21 year old number two overall pick, and that's what I'm viewing him as. He has the potential to become an elite player, after his (very normal) learning curve bears itself out.

 

Just like other elite or potentially elite players. He has a good chance of getting there, and luckily for us his floor is what his pace is now: a 60 point, top-line level centre. He's going to amount to more than that, assuredly.

 

I know, that contract. But we will have to be patient with him. It's not Eichel's fault he is going to soon get paid like he's the best of the best. Someone else handed him that deal.

 

The good news is that the potential offender in that case has the ability and opportunity to mould the roster into a successful franchise. I just hope he is up to the task.

 

I think the contract was tendered to shore up Jack's confidence against the trying year the management knew was coming.  They knew what was in store for Jack personally:  He's being groomed into a two-way player with the associated decrease in offensive numbers due to the new role of not being just an offensive player and also the learning curve.  The management would like to win, but the focus is more on development of individual players that are part of the future core.  Jack learning the two way game is much more important than Jack ringing up a point a game.  And if he learns well and grows into the role projected for him, his scoring will pick back up next year.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Doohickie

[That Aud Smell]

We traded him to Minny (Foligno might have been that guy on this roster).  He's gone and, you're right- his replacement is not yet on the roster.  I think Jack may be a future C, but right now he's putting too much pressure on himself, holding his stick too tight, to worry about being a leader.

 

I think the contract was tendered to shore up Jack's confidence against the trying year the management knew was coming.  They knew what was in store for Jack personally:  He's being groomed into a two-way player with the associated decrease in offensive numbers due to the new role of not being just an offensive player and also the learning curve.  The management would like to win, but the focus is more on development of individual players that are part of the future core.  Jack learning the two way game is much more important than Jack ringing up a point a game.  And if he learns well and grows into the role projected for him, his scoring will pick back up next year.

 

While I don't agree with the Foligno take, I think the stuff about Eichel is pretty interesting and insightful. I had not really considered the extent to which he's being asked to become more of a 2-way player. 

 

While I'm at it: How many power play points did Eichel have at this point last season? And how many now? The players deserve boo-dos (opposite of kudos, I think) for a lot -- but the coaching staff done effed up a fantastic power play.

[Doohickie]

While I'm at it: How many power play points did Eichel have at this point last season? And how many now? The players deserve boo-dos (opposite of kudos, I think) for a lot -- but the coaching staff done effed up a fantastic power play.

 

Good point.  But again, I'm not worried about it.... this year.

 

For all the people bashing on the team for the lack of bottom six talent.... well maybe there's something to that I think.  You could see a huge uptick when Josefson was playing; the line with him, Nolan and Okposo looked pretty good and was giving us that secondary scoring.  Take him out though and you can see the lack of depth.  I think, though, that the depth is in the organization, but Rochester is getting the win-at-all-costs treatment this year and getting to keep their best players in the name of development.  They want that group to play together, grow together, and eventually come up to the NHL together.  So when Josefson goes down, it's Moulson time.  So it's not that our bottom six sucks, is that the organization chooses to stand pat with placeholder roster players instead of promoting depth from Rochester to deal with the loss of a Josefson.

 

If the long term strategy is to build a winner in the AHL and move it up to the NHL, I'm okay with that.  I'm okay with placeholder players that will be gone in a year or so.  I just hope the new wave they bring up from Rochester next season will be worth the lost season this year.

While I don't agree with the Foligno take,

 

Yeah, maybe a little sketchy on my part.  Think of it this way:  I think Girgs and Foligno are/were roughly equivalent.  But I think Foligno, given that his father played for Buffalo and he was born here, put a little more the Blue and Gold in his VeinsVeinsVeins.  Being a Sabre meant more to Foligno; it wasn't just about his teammates, it was about the crest on the sweater.  He wasn't our best player, but you could just tell the team meant a lot to him.

 

That doesn't make him a Drury; maybe it makes him a Lindy or Mike Ramsey or Stu Barnes.

And now I'm done trying to explain my addled thought process (I had anesthesia for a colonoscopy this morning).

[Thorny]

The Detroit game, Jack was getting it pretty good from several guys in my 300 section. I think it's only going to grow.

 

 

If you sign a 10 million dollar, 8 year contract, you are the face of the Franchise, and paid handsomely to be so.

 

That means you are the face the fans see in the wins, and the face they see during the losses. It all comes with the territory.

 

We traded him to Minny (Foligno might have been that guy on this roster).  He's gone and, you're right- his replacement is not yet on the roster.  I think Jack may be a future C, but right now he's putting too much pressure on himself, holding his stick too tight, to worry about being a leader.

 

 

Big difference between building a team new (with the benefit of an expansion draft) and transitioning from a clusterfrick with some bad contracts to a good team.  The Sabres have baggage.  Vegas has none.

 

 

I think the contract was tendered to shore up Jack's confidence against the trying year the management knew was coming.  They knew what was in store for Jack personally:  He's being groomed into a two-way player with the associated decrease in offensive numbers due to the new role of not being just an offensive player and also the learning curve.  The management would like to win, but the focus is more on development of individual players that are part of the future core.  Jack learning the two way game is much more important than Jack ringing up a point a game.  And if he learns well and grows into the role projected for him, his scoring will pick back up next year.

Interesting post.

 

The bolded doesn't ring true to me, though, given everything I've seen over the years with regards to how sports management works. It's one thing to tell a kid like Reinhart to sacrifice points in Junior for the sake of building up their strength. But to hand out 80 million dollars to a kid, knowing full well you expect his numbers to drop in the coming season, when you have the option of waiting to pay him until the following year...not sure I buy that. I don't think GMs give away those dollars that easily if there is a real chance to save.

 

Any shored up confidence gained from signing a big deal would surely be more than offset by, as PA pointed out, the growing angst being thrown in his direction from the fanbase.

 

I know the contract doesn't start until next year, but fans seeing the lack of production, combined with the coming price tag, and the current media lambasting that I'm sure he's occasionally hearing...Let's just say I don't fancy Botterill's aptitude as a motivator if that truly was the case.

[Doohickie]

I think they feel Jack is worth the value of the contract and wanted his cooperation while they molded him into more a two-way player.  If he was playing for a contract, he'd be more likely to blow the defensive part of his game off and concentrate on the numbers that would make him the big bucks.  That's not a consideration anymore and I really think he's improving as a two-way player.

 

I will say, though, that my opinions are often ill-informed.  Because most of what I know about hockey is from watching games and not actually playing (much) or understanding fancy stats, my opinions are more gut feel than they are logical.

[Thorny]

I think they feel Jack is worth the value of the contract and wanted his cooperation while they molded him into more a two-way player.  If he was playing for a contract, he'd be more likely to blow the defensive part of his game off and concentrate on the numbers that would make him the big bucks.  That's not a consideration anymore and I really think he's improving as a two-way player.

 

I will say, though, that my opinions are often ill-informed.  Because most of what I know about hockey is from watching games and not actually playing (much) or understanding fancy stats, my opinions are more gut feel than they are logical.

Meh, join the club :lol:

[Doohickie]

Yeah, I like to throw that out there once in a while so people will understand why I can coherently defend my views.  :P