GDT: Canadiens @ Sabres 7pm, 3/16/2016

[LTS]

Wow.. people are angry in this thread.

 

I'm not bothered.

 

But for those who love to bash BOGO.. know that it stands for "Bury One, Give One"

 

Tra la la la la.... 

[Beer]

Wow.. people are angry in this thread.

 

I'm not bothered.

 

But for those who love to bash BOGO.. know that it stands for "Bury One, Give One"

 

Tra la la la la.... 

 

:w00t:  Nice one.

[TrueBlueGED]

Nhl 96 to 98 count, 94 to 95 do not

 

Blasphemy! 94 is legendary!

 

 

Wow.. people are angry in this thread.

 

I'm not bothered.

 

But for those who love to bash BOGO.. know that it stands for "Bury One, Give One"

 

Tra la la la la.... 

 

:worthy:

[WildCard]

Tell you what.  Find one with an opposing view, and I'll listen.  Until then, I'll stick with the guy who actually played the position in the NHL.

Roy?

[musichunch]

All I know is that Lehner allowed a goal 27 seconds after that scrum. Small sample size, I know, but I'll be keeping an eye on it.

 

I like him a lot, but I feel his issues are mental. The only thing stopping him from being an elite goalie is himself. Hopefully he figures out his problem and straightens it out. 

[JJFIVEOH]

No, he doesn't. He gets distracted. Who cares about whether a goalie can "back it up"? Really?

 

 

 

Exactly.

What exactly has he done that leads you to believe he gets distracted? He himself has said he plays better when he starts to get physically involved in the play. If you don't want to answer me, just say so, I can take it. I'd rather hear it than be ignored.

All I know is that Lehner allowed a goal 27 seconds after that scrum. Small sample size, I know, but I'll be keeping an eye on it.

 

I like him a lot, but I feel his issues are mental. The only thing stopping him from being an elite goalie is himself. Hopefully he figures out his problem and straightens it out.

The one that was deflected and had no chance on?

[LGR4GM]

What exactly has he done that leads you to believe he gets distracted? He himself has said he plays better when he starts to get physically involved in the play. If you don't want to answer me, just say so, I can take it. I'd rather hear it than be ignored.

There have been a couple times where I thought he was distracted after getting to emotionally involved in on ice stuff. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

[musichunch]

What exactly has he done that leads you to believe he gets distracted? He himself has said he plays better when he starts to get physically involved in the play. If you don't want to answer me, just say so, I can take it. I'd rather hear it than be ignored.

 

I don't want to speak for Eleven, but in my experience, playing with anger is a major distraction. It's clouds the mind and knocks you off-balance. What someone says and what he does are two different things. Like I said in my last post, he allowed a goal 30 seconds after that scrum. 

[JJFIVEOH]

A bitch move on Goober's part to criticize Lehner after the game because of the penalty. He seems to do that a lot, that was one of his downfalls in Pittsburgh. Whether he likes it or not, deal with Lehner in private if he thinks it's an issue. Lehner did what he thought was right, helping and sticking up for a teammate, only because there's few left on the team that actually will. I have a problem with a coach that publicly criticizes a player for sticking up for his teammates.

[LGR4GM]

I feel like there are plenty of players who stick up for teammates on the Sabres even without Lehner.

[RonHextallsShoulderPads]

at this point, i'm much more confident and comfortable with Johnson.

[JJFIVEOH]

I feel like there are plenty of players who stick up for teammates on the Sabres even without Lehner.

 

Bogosian? Foligno? Nickie D? Gorges? 

 

Those are the only players with some semblance of aggressiveness. Kane will get physical, but it seems he usually only focuses on one person, usually a player he's had an issue with in the past. The Sabres got beat last night because they were outmatched physically. The Habs got under their skin and nobody took control physically. Nobody said "enough of this, I'm going to kick his ass". The Sabres got pushed around by one of the softest teams in the league, that's only possible because the Sabres are one of the softest teams in the league. And instead of looking at the real issue (the fact the Sabres weren't up by 4 goals at the time Lehner got his penalty) the biggest gripe from this game is that the goaltender was sticking up for his teammates because the only other person that would was already down on the ice taking care of somebody else (Bogosian). You might point out the hits stats and say that Montreal and BFLO are mid-pack, but that doesn't say anything about stepping up and getting physical when it's time to take control of a game. Successful teams know when to turn it on and off. If it were up to Goober, he'd leave it off every game, all game. 

 

Lehner getting physical is the very least of this team's concerns at the moment. 

Alas, there's finally some sliver of excitement in recent games and they'll eventually neuter Lehner and make sure that doesn't happen again. 

[musichunch]

Bogosian? Foligno? Nickie D? Gorges? 

 

Those are the only players with some semblance of aggressiveness. Kane will get physical, but it seems he usually only focuses on one person, usually a player he's had an issue with in the past. The Sabres got beat last night because they were outmatched physically. The Habs got under their skin and nobody took control physically. Nobody said "enough of this, I'm going to kick his ass". The Sabres got pushed around by one of the softest teams in the league, that's only possible because the Sabres are one of the softest teams in the league. And instead of looking at the real issue (the fact the Sabres weren't up by 4 goals at the time Lehner got his penalty) the biggest gripe from this game is that the goaltender was sticking up for his teammates because the only other person that would was already down on the ice taking care of somebody else (Bogosian). You might point out the hits stats and say that Montreal and BFLO are mid-pack, but that doesn't say anything about stepping up and getting physical when it's time to take control of a game. Successful teams know when to turn it on and off. If it were up to Goober, he'd leave it off every game, all game. 

 

Lehner getting physical is the very least of this team's concerns at the moment. 

 

Thinking back, Lehner may have done what he did to stand up for himself getting run over earlier in the game.

 

I just remember Risto doing a bunch of pansy schoolgirl cross checks to the player that ran Lehner over. Then everybody pushes each other a little and it's over. So we're a bit more physical than the Lucic/Miller thing, but nothing special. 

 

I see your point a little better now. 

[LGR4GM]

I disagree very much we were over matched physically.

 

My biggest gripe from last night is our lack of offense and Eichel and Samson playing mediocre.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I am on my phone, so all bets are off on this making sense.

 

What gives?

[JJFIVEOH]

Thinking back, Lehner may have done what he did to stand up for himself getting run over earlier in the game.

 

I just remember Risto doing a bunch of pansy schoolgirl cross checks to the player that ran Lehner over. Then everybody pushes each other a little and it's over. So we're a bit more physical than the Lucic/Miller thing, but nothing special. 

 

I see your point a little better now. 

 

Yup, I agree with you. Lehner might have been sticking up for himself too, sending a message that this is what will happen if you keep crashing my net. I can see his point, with his concussion issues and all. 

 

I also agree that they do stick up more for each other than the Sabres of Lucic/Miller days. The only problem I see is most of them aren't physically capable of doing so. The Lucic/Miller Sabres were more capable of handling themselves, they just weren't capable of actually following through on it. Risto may be stone cold, but he isn't the physical presence that everybody thinks he is. 

[JJFIVEOH]

I disagree very much we were over matched physically.

 

My biggest gripe from last night is our lack of offense and Eichel and Samson playing mediocre.

 

OK, perhaps not outmatched physically but they were pushed around and taken off their game because nobody stepped up to do something about it. That is coaching. It's also a lack of players that know when to do that on their own. I hate to compare this team to the Panthers, but I think it's a relevant comparison because I watch them very often. The Panthers are not the most physical team in the world, but they do know when to step up and let the other team know that they're not going to be pushed around. It might risk a penalty, but it works. Do you know who stepped up the other night and started pushing Mike Brown around and took him off his game? Jonathan Huberdeau. JONATHAN HUBERDEAU!!! Do you know who else steps up and doesn't let himself to get walked all over? The coach. He'll risk taking a penalty by letting the refs know when they suck. He's already been thrown out of two games. And the team steps up when everybody starts taking control of the game and doesn't let themselves get taken advantage of. 

 

The Sabres got taken advantage of last night. And they got taken advantage of by a bunch of AHL'ers. 

 

Don't like Reinhart and Eichel not playing well? Look no further than the coach that broke up the only line that's had some semblance of long-term success this year. 

[LGR4GM]

Yup, I agree with you. Lehner might have been sticking up for himself too, sending a message that this is what will happen if you keep crashing my net. I can see his point, with his concussion issues and all. 

 

I also agree that they do stick up more for each other than the Sabres of Lucic/Miller days. The only problem I see is most of them aren't physically capable of doing so. The Lucic/Miller Sabres were more capable of handling themselves, they just weren't capable of actually following through on it. Risto may be stone cold, but he isn't the physical presence that everybody thinks he is. 

In what way are these Sabres not capable of handling themselves?

 

He's a nice balance between Bogosian and Pysyk. 

OK, perhaps not outmatched physically but they were pushed around and taken off their game because nobody stepped up to do something about it. That is coaching. It's also a lack of players that know when to do that on their own. I hate to compare this team to the Panthers, but I think it's a relevant comparison because I watch them very often. The Panthers are not the most physical team in the world, but they do know when to step up and let the other team know that they're not going to be pushed around. It might risk a penalty, but it works. Do you know who stepped up the other night and started pushing Mike Brown around and took him off his game? Jonathan Huberdeau. JONATHAN HUBERDEAU!!! Do you know who else steps up and doesn't let himself to get walked all over? The coach. He'll risk taking a penalty by letting the refs know when they suck. He's already been thrown out of two games. And the team steps up when everybody starts taking control of the game and doesn't let themselves get taken advantage of. 

 

The Sabres got taken advantage of last night. And they got taken advantage of by a bunch of AHL'ers. 

 

Don't like Reinhart and Eichel not playing well? Look no further than the coach that broke up the only line that's had some semblance of long-term success this year. 

I honestly still do not agree.  They lost because they only scored 2 goals. They lack consistency on offense not physicality.  I watched Sabre after Sabre take penalties last night sticking up for teammates. 

 

As for the Bylsma criticism, I would like him to show more emotion but not sure what to say about him.

[JJFIVEOH]

In what way are these Sabres not capable of handling themselves?

 

He's a nice balance between Bogosian and Pysyk. 

I honestly still do not agree.  They lost because they only scored 2 goals. They lack consistency on offense not physicality.  I watched Sabre after Sabre take penalties last night sticking up for teammates. 

 

As for the Bylsma criticism, I would like him to show more emotion but not sure what to say about him.

 

Well then, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not the only one that saw this team get walked all over last night. Even the media was asking Goober why his team let themselves get taken off their game. They're not capable of handling themselves because they don't know when to turn on the physical play to send a message that they won't get pushed around. I put that on Goober, he is turning out to be almost as conservative as Ron Rolston. This was a meaningless game between two non-playoff teams going nowhere this year. There was little reason to play conservative last night. Goober should have let them have at it at the risk of taking some penalties. They lost the game anyways, what else did they have to lose? When the coach occasionally lets his players go out and stand up for each other it builds chemistry. When the coach makes his players sit back at the risk of having to kill off a penalty, they just allow themselves to get pushed around. You don't see it that way, that's fine. I respect your opinion. 

 

You're right, Risto is a nice balance between Pysyk and Boogsian. I'm not criticizing him for that. It doesn't negate my point that he's not the type of player to lay somebody out when the going gets tough. 

 

Goober doesn't need to be Tortorella, but he certainly doesn't need to be Ron Rolston. There is a nice balance to be had.

[LGR4GM]

I think part of our disagreement is you equate "walking all over" with "being taken off their game" and I personally think those are very separate issues.

 

As for the coach stuff, Bylsma coaches not to lose, he doesn't coach to win. I hate this about him.

 

I think Risto would lay someone out if the going got tough.  I don't think he needed to last night. Bogo our roughly 2nd best defender was gone for roughing at one point and Risto owes it to the team to not get a 10 minute misconduct because he is more valuable to us on the ice. The Sabres did get taken off their game but not because they were not physically tough but because they were not mentally tough.

 

PS: sorry for not quoting you, just figured it would be easier to read

Edited March 17, 2016 by LGR4GM

[JJFIVEOH]

I think part of our disagreement is you equate "walking all over" with "being taken off their game" and I personally think those are very separate issues.

 

As for the coach stuff, Bylsma coaches not to lose, he doesn't coach to win. I hate this about him.

 

I think Risto would lay someone out if the going got tough.  I don't think he needed to last night. Bogo our roughly 2nd best defender was gone for roughing at one point and Risto owes it to the team to not get a 10 minute misconduct because he is more valuable to us on the ice. The Sabres did get taken off their game but not because they were not physically tough but because they were not mentally tough.

 

PS: sorry for not quoting you, just figured it would be easier to read

 

They were taken off their game because they were walked all over. Nobody took control. I have yet to see Risto lay anybody out. He might throw an occasional hit that gets some attention, but he isn't the one that comes in and sends a message. All he does is stare at somebody with a stern look on his face. 

 

And that's the problem we have. There shouldn't be any hesitation because somebody might get a penalty. That is the problem, it should be spontaneous. A player shouldn't have to watch a play unfold, and then think about what might happen if he sticks up for his team. Especially when you're playing the St. Johns IceCaps. If you can't find a way to cover for your #1/#2 D-man for 10 minutes because he tried to get his team pumped by pushing somebody around, then winning is the least of your worries because you're not going to be doing much of it anyways. 

 

To me, last night, mentally tough=not getting mad because a team was trying to take you off your game. That's the same as the 'play not to lose' mentality. If you play to win, you send a message and let them know it's not OK to get pushed around even if it means killing off some penalties. If anything, stepping up and sending a message sparks some adrenaline and gets the team going. 

 

This was fun, I gots to run. Be back later.  ;)

[LGR4GM]

I think that is a fair way to look at this but I just see it different.  I will say that when this team is finally done being built I think the best way to respond to a team trying to get you off your game is to dominate the play. Chicago doesn't have to physically over power other teams because when a team gets chippy they get business like and dominate.

[Beer]

That was one hell of an exchange.

 

I think I side with LGR.  Cooler heads would have prevailed last night but the Sabres allowed themselves to get sucked into an emotional and undisciplined game (likely by design from Therrien).  This team is not the weak and feeble team we've watched in the past.  They had the superior talent on the ice yet played down to the Habs level and did so recklessly.  DD is at fault for not calming them down.  They played a great 1st period but penalties derailed them for the remainder of the game. It's hard to keep lines and d-pairings consistent when you have guys sitting in the box for 10 minutes.  I think Rayzor was right when he said they just need to fight and get it out of their system.

 

The team is still very young so we have to expect a bit of a roller coaster from game to game until they can develop the level of consistency to win every night and challenge for the cup.  That will take time.  I see the Sabres in the awkward teenager phase...  There's hair on the balls but they don't yet know how to control the hormones.

 

Happy freakin St. Patty's day everyone.  I'm surprised there isn't a St. Patty's day thread.  I'll be drinking Guinness and eating corn beef and cabbage until intestines explode (literally and figuratively).  :beer:

[Neo]

I think part of our disagreement is you equate "walking all over" with "being taken off their game" and I personally think those are very separate issues.

 

Good stuff from many of you.

 

We can discuss this team's physicality. In some ways it sets a tone and in some ways it provides a response. Valuable, both.

 

LGR draws the distinction I'm most interested in with his sentence, quoted by me, above. Lehner remains a question mark for me because of: 1) his concussion, and; 2) his ankle (I had a grade 2 high ankle sprain 15 years ago; nasty stuff), and; 3) his focus when things get hairy. LGR's ".. being taken off his game" captures my feelings and worries me a bit. I'll admit a small sample size, but last night's power play goal after Lehner's penalty made me think of the Marchand penalty shot. The guy just didn't seem ready after the incidents. Again, small sample size acknowledged. Can I say it's worth watching?

 

I'd rather have a team respond and a goalie with ice in his veins watching placidly while remembering the game situation.

 

I've never tended goal on ice that wasn't a pond.

Edited March 17, 2016 by N'eo

[That Aud Smell]

I'd rather have a team respond and a goalie with ice in his veins watching placidly while remembering the game situation.

 

Yep.