TFP: Sabres almost traded Eichel

[thesportsbuff]

I didn't see this being discussed anywhere.

 

According to this (probably stupid) report from The Fourth Period, the Sabres were seriously considering a package for Eichel. I refuse to believe it to be honest, I don't think there's any way Murray would have strayed from his plan. This is the first I've heard of it.

 

 

However, he almost made his pre-season debut with another team.

According to three individual NHL sources, Buffalo received a "significant" offer this summer after the NHL Draft that "involved Eichel and another asset."

It is unclear how large the overall package was, but if the trade went through, it would have seen at least one "top line forward" going to Buffalo, one source told TFP.

The offer, another source confirmed, was "seriously" considered by the Sabres, but the deal was later "nixed" by the other team, said to be an Eastern Conference opponent.

 

 

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/buf150924a.html

 

The first name that comes to mind is obviously Stamkos, but I just can't fathom Murray would have ever been "close" to pulling the trigger.

Edited September 24, 2015 by thesportsbuff

[TrueBlueGED]

This may as well have come from Hockeybuzz.

[thesportsbuff]

This may as well have come from Hockeybuzz.

 

It's about as ludicrous as something you would see on HB, but Pagnotta and the other TFP guys are definitely more credible than Eklund Lol. How much so? Idk.

[WildCard]

I mean I just can't believe we'd go through a tank just to trade our prize away. I get Murray may have been initially upset we lost out on McJesus, but he isn't that thick to not realize what Eichel is and can be.

[PASabreFan]

It would have been extreme, but it would have in line with Murray's philosophy of not falling in love with kids and being more than willing to trade his mother for the right return. I mean, how are Zadorov and those first rounders doing in camp?

[Brawndo]

Friedman reported in August that the Sabres talking to TBL about Stamkos. This is probably related to that.

 

Stamkos would not have been enough to trade Eichel for

[K-9]

Friedman reported in August that the Sabres talking to TBL about Stamkos. This is probably related to that.

 

Stamkos would not have been enough to trade Eichel for

Yeah, the other Eastern Conference team had to be TB and the player had to be Stamkos. So glad Murray wasn't tempted. Eichel is a better prospect at 18 than Stamkos was and I think we've seen the Stamkos ceiling, which isn't bad to be sure. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[DirtDart]

This being a rebuild, I don't see it. If we were a piece, or two away in a win now mode, it would be different.

[Taro T]

Friedman reported in August that the Sabres talking to TBL about Stamkos. This is probably related to that.

Stamkos would not have been enough to trade Eichel for

Correct, he wouldn't have. Would Stamkos, Hedman, & Bishop been enough? Possibly. If not what if Johnson, Stralman, Palat, & Callahan were involved. At some point the GM of a 30th place team would be expected to say 'yes, this is enough for me to give you Eichel' when talking to the GM of the team that just lost in the Finals. It is highly possible that the point at which the Sabres GM would be willing to give up Eichel would be faaaaaaar past what the GM of the SC Finalist would be willing to offer.

 

As fans we'd hate nearly any deal that has Eichel go away because we're emotionally invested in what it took to get him and the hope that he represents (possibly a Blackhawk-like multiple SC Renaissance). The GM wants HIS own name on the SC and realizes he has a much shorter window to make that happen than the fan has (for MOST cases - the guy that was 70 on 10/10/70 when Gilbert first laced 'em up in B&G and hoped to see at least 1 SC championship for the Sabres in his lifetime might have a shorter term perspective than the GM ;)) and knows Buffalo might not be his last stop (especially if he doesn't build a winner in the next 3 years), so his view on how important it is to have Eichel for 15 years is likely lower than our view of its importance.

 

That TM considered trading Eichel is plausible. That he'd want so much back that even though SY started the talk he also cut it off is also plausible.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Taro T

[3putt]

Unless Edmonton had buyer's remorse, I can't see the conversation lasting very long.  But GMTM reminds us constantly that it his job to make calls and take calls so I give that part of the story credence. 

[dudacek]

I'm glad Murray had that discussion.

Happier the trade didn't happen.

[sicknfla]

Tampa was not trading one of the best (if not the best) player in the league a few weeks removed from the Cup finals. They definitely were not adding pieces such as Hedman, Bishop, Johnson, etc. The owner here has made it well known he wants him signed at whatever cost.

 

Eichel is going to be great but i think putting him in a category that would require Stamkos + might be setting the bar a little high.

[Taro T]

Tampa was not trading one of the best (if not the best) player in the league a few weeks removed from the Cup finals. They definitely were not adding pieces such as Hedman, Bishop, Johnson, etc. The owner here has made it well known he wants him signed at whatever cost.

Eichel is going to be great but i think putting him in a category that would require Stamkos + might be setting the bar a little high.

Well, depending upon when "after the draft" this alleged discussion took place, the Sabres might not have been able to even hold contract discussions w/ Stamkos. If the Sabres are considering giving up Eichel and additional piece(s), then if TM wants to guarantee his viability as an NHL GM beyond this season, he's sure as heck going to want ask for more than 1 season of Stamkos coming back.

[sicknfla]

Well, depending upon when "after the draft" this alleged discussion took place, the Sabres might not have been able to even hold contract discussions w/ Stamkos. If the Sabres are considering giving up Eichel and additional piece(s), then if TM wants to guarantee his viability as an NHL GM beyond this season, he's sure as heck going to want ask for more than 1 season of Stamkos coming back.

Correct. And Tampa isn't going to gut a Stanley Cup finalist for a draft pick. No matter how good people project Eichel to be.

[Taro T]

Correct. And Tampa isn't going to gut a Stanley Cup finalist for a draft pick. No matter how good people project Eichel to be.

Of course they aren't going to gut the team for Eichel. Which is why it's very plausible that SY asked about Eichel, and what TM said it would cost would be too much for SY to accept. TB has enough assets that TM could say 'yes, I will make Eichel available' but it is perfectly reasonable that the minimal package required to give up Eichel was far above the maximal package that would work for the Stormcloud guys (Bolts, not Dwight & DeLuca & crew ;)).

 

The impetus for both to be willing to talk is: TM wants to be upper echelon ASAP and TB has assets that could get Buffalo there quickly; and

 

SY wants to stay upper echelon AND avoid the possibility of losing SS for bupkis (extending him being his preferred way to do that but replacing him w/ an inexpensive potential future superstar would be a reasonable plan B from his perspective).

 

Makes sense that they'd talk, also makes sense they couldn't agree to a deal based on where the teams both sit in their development stages.

[Doohickie]

The offer, another source confirmed, was "seriously" considered by the Sabres, but the deal was later "nixed" by the other team, said to be an Eastern Conference opponent.

 

 

To me that sounds like GMTM asked for more than the other team was willing to pay.  Which, of course, was the right thing to do.

[sicknfla]

Of course they aren't going to gut the team for Eichel. Which is why it's very plausible that SY asked about Eichel, and what TM said it would cost would be too much for SY to accept. TB has enough assets that TM could say 'yes, I will make Eichel available' but it is perfectly reasonable that the minimal package required to give up Eichel was far above the maximal package that would work for the Stormcloud guys (Bolts, not Dwight & DeLuca & crew ;)).

 

The impetus for both to be willing to talk is: TM wants to be upper echelon ASAP and TB has assets that could get Buffalo there quickly; and

 

SY wants to stay upper echelon AND avoid the possibility of losing SS for bupkis (extending him being his preferred way to do that but replacing him w/ an inexpensive potential future superstar would be a reasonable plan B from his perspective).

 

Makes sense that they'd talk, also makes sense they couldn't agree to a deal based on where the teams both sit in their development stages.

All good points. As much as I like Stamkos I am glad it worked out the way it did.

[TrueBlueGED]

One of the issues with deals like this from the perspective of the team dealing the prospect is simply economics. Of course at this point in time Stamkos is a better player than Eichel, but he's also going to turn 26 this season and start making $10 million or so per year for the next 7-8 years, whereas Eichel is going to be at most a hair over $3 million for the next 3, and after still has a good chance of coming in cheaper than Stamkos (and even if he doesn't, the age difference is non-negligible). Just looking at the near term, is 26-29 year old Stamkos $21 million better than Eichel? Even if that answer is yes, I'm very confident that 30-35 year old Stamkos will not be more valuable than 21-26 year old Eichel regardless of price (and seeing as Eichel's next deal will be buying mostly RFA years, I have a hard time seeing him making what Stamkos will get). For the life of me I can't remember who said it, but one of my favorite recent sports quotes is "In a cap system you don't win championships by paying players what they're worth...you win championships by paying them less." I think that principle is very applicable in discussions like this.

Edited September 25, 2015 by TrueBlueGED

[3putt]

Of course they aren't going to gut the team for Eichel. Which is why it's very plausible that SY asked about Eichel, and what TM said it would cost would be too much for SY to accept. TB has enough assets that TM could say 'yes, I will make Eichel available' but it is perfectly reasonable that the minimal package required to give up Eichel was far above the maximal package that would work for the Stormcloud guys (Bolts, not Dwight & DeLuca & crew ;)).

The impetus for both to be willing to talk is: TM wants to be upper echelon ASAP and TB has assets that could get Buffalo there quickly; and

SY wants to stay upper echelon AND avoid the possibility of losing SS for bupkis (extending him being his preferred way to do that but replacing him w/ an inexpensive potential future superstar would be a reasonable plan B from his perspective).

Makes sense that they'd talk, also makes sense they couldn't agree to a deal based on where the teams both sit in their development stages.

While I think your characterization of TM wanting to accelerate the rebuild is accurate, I can't see anyway he would trade Eichel for anything less than a guaranteed long term superstar. Without the ability to extend SS he would be looking for a job today had he made that move. There seems to be a strong sense that the rebuild is over. I think the tear down has been completed and there is still work to do on the foundation.

One of the issues with deals like this from the perspective of the team dealing the prospect is simply economics. Of course at this point in time Stamkos is a better player than Eichel, but he's also going to turn 26 this season and start making $10 million or so per year for the next 7-8 years, whereas Eichel is going to be at most a hair over $3 million for the next 3, and after still has a good chance of coming in cheaper than Stamkos (and even if he doesn't, the age difference is non-negligible). Just looking at the near term, is 26-29 year old Stamkos $21 million better than Eichel? Even if that answer is yes, I'm very confident that 30-35 year old Stamkos will not be more valuable than 21-26 year old Eichel regardless of price (and seeing as Eichel's next deal will be buying mostly RFA years, I have a hard time seeing him making what Stamkos will get). For the life of me I can't remember who said it, but one of my favorite recent sports quotes is "In a cap system you don't win championships by paying players what they're worth...you win championships by paying them less." I think that principle is very applicable in discussions like this.

This. There was a chart on TSN showing production for all NHL players peaking at 22. After that you have a slow decline. If Jack makes the transition to elite sooner, the economics are a no brainier.

[Thorny]

Tampa was not trading one of the best (if not the best) player in the league a few weeks removed from the Cup finals. They definitely were not adding pieces such as Hedman, Bishop, Johnson, etc. The owner here has made it well known he wants him signed at whatever cost.

 

Eichel is going to be great but i think putting him in a category that would require Stamkos + might be setting the bar a little high.

 

Not at all. Eichel is a better prospect than Stamkos was. I get that Stamkos is established and you have to pay a premium for that, but if you are going to trade away a guy like Eichel, you better be asking for Stamkos + after what it cost to attain him.

While I think your characterization of TM wanting to accelerate the rebuild is accurate, I can't see anyway he would trade Eichel for anything less than a guaranteed long term superstar. Without the ability to extend SS he would be looking for a job today had he made that move. There seems to be a strong sense that the rebuild is over. I think the tear down has been completed and there is still work to do on the foundation.

This. There was a chart on TSN showing production for all NHL players peaking at 22. After that you have a slow decline. If Jack makes the transition to elite sooner, the economics are a no brainier.

 

Interesting. Do you have a link for this? I would doubt production for NHL players would peak that early, I would think between 24-27 would be more likely.

[sicknfla]

Not at all. Eichel is a better prospect than Stamkos was. I get that Stamkos is established and you have to pay a premium for that, but if you are going to trade away a guy like Eichel, you better be asking for Stamkos + after what it cost to attain him.

 

If I was as big of Lightning fan as I am the Sabres I would not want them trading for Eichel. That is not a knock on Eichel I just watch a lot of Lightning games and trading such a proven commodity (team captain with playoff experience ) for a kid who has never played in the league would be a pretty ballsy move.

[3putt]

Not at all. Eichel is a better prospect than Stamkos was. I get that Stamkos is established and you have to pay a premium for that, but if you are going to trade away a guy like Eichel, you better be asking for Stamkos + after what it cost to attain him.

 

Interesting. Do you have a link for this? I would doubt production for NHL players would peak that early, I would think between 24-27 would be more likely.

I think you are correct at around 24. http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis. Here is the article. The author seems to be well cited.

If I was as big of Lightning fan as I am the Sabres I would not want them trading for Eichel. That is not a knock on Eichel I just watch a lot of Lightning games and trading such a proven commodity (team captain with playoff experience ) for a kid who has never played in the league would be a pretty ballsy move.

I think Stamkos is a heckuva player. A pure goal scorer. But he was playing second line wing in the SCF. I think it is a matter of the Bolts having an embarrassment of riches in their system.

[Thorny]

Not at all. Eichel is a better prospect than Stamkos was. I get that Stamkos is established and you have to pay a premium for that, but if you are going to trade away a guy like Eichel, you better be asking for Stamkos + after what it cost to attain him.

 

Interesting. Do you have a link for this? I would doubt production for NHL players would peak that early, I would think between 24-27 would be more likely.

 

Also a good point. And there's the rub. The trade would be difficult to get done, from the point of view of both sides. I don't know that I believe this rumor, I highly doubt Murray would seriously consider trading Jack. But even if it crossed his mind upon talking to a potential partner like Tampa, no way Murray's offer/counter offer would be anything the lightning could stomach.

 

As it should be. In no realistic world are we trading Jack Eichel.

I think you are correct at around 24. http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis. Here is the article. The author seems to be well cited.

 

I think Stamkos is a heckuva player. A pure goal scorer. But he was playing second line wing in the SCF. I think it is a matter of the Bolts having an embarrassment of riches in their system.

 

Ya, 24 seems about right.

 

Stamkos being more of a pure goal-scorer is a good point. In the sense that, yes, he is a great player, but it's easier to build a team around an all-around center. If Stamkos is going to be playing/best suited for the wing, Eichel is the player I choose upon starting a rebuild.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Thorny

[TrueBlueGED]

Also a good point. And there's the rub. The trade would be difficult to get done, from the point of view of both sides. I don't know that I believe this rumor, I highly doubt Murray would seriously consider trading Jack. But even if it crossed his mind upon talking to a potential partner like Tampa, no way Murray's offer/counter offer would be anything the lightning could stomach.

 

As it should be. In no realistic world are we trading Jack Eichel.

 

This is the problem with the reporting: we don't know what "considered" actually means. Does it mean he put deep thought into it and there were lengthy internal discussions, or simply he crossed it with a few people and they all said "nah" within seconds?

[Thorny]

This is the problem with the reporting: we don't know what "considered" actually means. Does it mean he put deep thought into it and there were lengthy internal discussions, or simply he crossed it with a few people and they all said "nah" within seconds?

 

Exactly. And the ambiguity of the rumor leads me to believe the latter.

I'm sure that if such a situation arose, Murray is competent enough to do his due diligence. But I think that logically, that is as far as that particular hypothetical would go.