Sherman Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Moving goalposts, opinions based on how we feel at the moment. Did we get worse? Sure. But anyone could do that. Did we get anything close to reasonable value for what we gave up. No. But I guess that's okay with everyone. pleas define reasonable value. I think that is where people differ. My expectations going into the day was:Flynn - nothing Mitchell - 6/7 Neuvirth -3 Stewart -2 maybe another pick/prospect Based on that I think we did ok. Next step in building the team is draft and free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Moving goalposts, opinions based on how we feel at the moment. Did we get worse? Sure. But anyone could do that. Did we get anything close to reasonable value for what we gave up. No. But I guess that's okay with everyone. Mitchell is a 4th liner Flynn is a 4th liner Neuvy is a decent back-up goalie Stewart is an inconsistent 2nd line winger The only one of any worth is Stewart and TSN ripped him a new one saying we should keep him because he makes the team worse by simply being on the ice. Teams didn't really want him. And no-one was going to pay much for the rest. The difference between Neuvirth and Johnson is a third round pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Moving goalposts, opinions based on how we feel at the moment. Did we get worse? Sure. But anyone could do that. Did we get anything close to reasonable value for what we gave up. No. But I guess that's okay with everyone. pleas define reasonable value. I think that is where people differ. My expectations going into the day was:Flynn - nothing Mitchell - 6/7 Neuvirth -3 Stewart -2 maybe another pick/prospect Based on that I think we did ok. Next step in building the team is draft and free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMeadow Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Moving goalposts, opinions based on how we feel at the moment. Did we get worse? Sure. But anyone could do that. Did we get anything close to reasonable value for what we gave up. No. But I guess that's okay with everyone. I agree with you, Promo. My feeling, from reading through all the rumors and "insider" information leading up to Deadline Day, is that TM waited too long to unload Stewart and had almost nothing left to choose from (2017 2nd) when the music stopped. In any case, the team should be worse for the rest of this season. Problem is, Coyotes will be even worse than us. Sure hope the 4 point spread holds up; otherwise NOBODY will be happy in Sabreland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I wouldve been happy if he traded them all for a bag of Hershey kisses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I really don't see what others don't in Stewart. He was the most productive players on this team for the last two months. He's one of the most physical. He's not a defensive liability. He sticks up for his teammates. I just don't understand it.......................... He's a puncher. He was averaging .33 pts/gm last year. His performance really dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I really don't see what others don't in Stewart. He was the most productive players on this team for the last two months. He's one of the most physical. He's not a defensive liability. He sticks up for his teammates. I just don't understand it.......................... I can agree with you on that. If this team wasn't close to finishing what the team had started which was landing one of the big two in the draft he would probably still be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Murrays body of work for two deadlines is not good. Mitchell and Stewart we part of the Miller/Ott deal. So to now say they were worthless is to say that basically when he acquired them he was acquiring worthless assets. In hindsight he could have flipped Stewart last year when he still had a year left and received more. Didn't Ottawa want him? Good GM'S don't make that mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrix31 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Why exactly was Tim Murray expected to get more for our trash when even the love child of Helen Keller and Ray Charles can see that we're losing on purpose? Exactly what leverage did did you think he had in negotiations? None of those teams had to give up anything for our loser players and had no reason to feel compelled to do so. Edited March 2, 2015 by TheMatrix31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Murrays body of work for two deadlines is not good. Mitchell and Stewart we part of the Miller/Ott deal. So to now say they were worthless is to say that basically when he acquired them he was acquiring worthless assets. In hindsight he could have flipped Stewart last year when he still had a year left and received more. Didn't Ottawa want him? Good GM'S don't make that mistake. Hindsight can make anybody look smart. I can agree with you on that. If this team wasn't close to finishing what the team had started which was landing one of the big two in the draft he would probably still be here. I just don't see why many think he was so worthless when in actuality he was probably this team's best player this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hindsight can make anybody look smart. I just don't see why many think he was so worthless when in actuality he was probably this team's best player this year. What kind of return were you expecting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Stewart produces like Drew Stafford and plays defence like Cody Hodgson. He is a good fighter, although he doesn't chuck 'em all that much. He doesn't force a lot of turnovers and seems like he should blow up more guys given his size. I think the people that like him get dazzled by his big body and his straight line speed and overlook his flaws. Scouts used to do that too, but they've grown tired of making excuses for him. He was traded for market value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) GMTM achieved his number # 1 goal today which was making our odds even better to get McEichel. It's easy to say Darcy would have received more based on his past history because he had a tendency to wait until he could make the "perfect" trade. This tendency is why we're in the mess we're in now. Plus, you can only get so much for garbage. And we can re-sign Neuvirth and Stewart if we want for nothing. Long shots at best, I give him a c plus because Bogosian trade with a B if Kane turns out, but a D for deadline day underwhelming would have kept Stewart unless deemed cancer in lockeroom. Edited March 2, 2015 by Fargenov Iceholeski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I He was averaging .33 pts/gm last year. His performance really dropped. The puncher I was talking about was Nevins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 What kind of return were you expecting? I was expecting a 1st but that went away after the earlier than expected trades. The puncher I was talking about was Nevins. Me too. Stewart produces like Drew Stafford and plays defence like Cody Hodgson. He is a good fighter, although he doesn't chuck 'em all that much. He doesn't force a lot of turnovers and seems like he should blow up more guys given his size. I think the people that like him get dazzled by his big body and his straight line speed and overlook his flaws. Scouts used to do that too, but they've grown tired of making excuses for him. He was traded for market value. Maybe I just don't see the flaws, or think they outweigh the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I was expecting a 1st but that went away after the earlier than expected trades. Me too. I never thought Stewart would get a first. I thought he might return a prospect though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Hindsight can make anybody look smart. Then let's be geniuses. Mitchell and Stewart we part of the Miller/Ott deal. Nope. Torrey Mitchell and a 2nd round pick were acquired when we shipped Matt Moulson and Cody McCormick to Minnesota. We sold 30 games of Matt Moulson and 27 games of Cody McCormick to MN for a 2014 2nd (Eric Cornel and Brycen Martin), Josh Gorges, one year of Mitchell, a 7th and Nevins. As for the Miller trade, Miller and Ott for Halak, Stewart, Carrier, a 2015 1st, and a 2016 3rd turns into: 25 games of Miller, 29 games of Ott (plus a non-guaranteed re-sign), a 2015 3rd rounder, and eating Klesla's salary --for-- A 2015 1st, a 2017 2nd, a 2016 3rd, a year of Neuvirth, a year of Stewart, Chad Johnson, and Carrier Good enough trades. Edited March 2, 2015 by Я знаю физика Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Then let's be geniuses. Just saying, that's one of those things where it's so easy to say "Murray should have done this because he didn't get this......" after the fact. Murray could have gotten a 1st at different times. Had he waited until the last minute and found somebody desperate enough to throw out an insane offer, people would be saying he was a genius for waiting. I'm sure the early trades played a big part on lowering Stewart's value which probably caught Murray by surprise. Waiting until the last minute was his only option left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s88r_q7oufE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) So it's safe to say Neuvirth is a fan of the tank! Edited March 2, 2015 by SabresBillsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I never thought Stewart would get a first. I thought he might return a prospect though. I based it on where some of these other 1st round picks were going. Vermette? Coburn? And TIMONEN for what could turn out to be TWO 2nd's???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I based it on where some of these other 1st round picks were going. Vermette? Coburn? And TIMONEN for what could turn out to be TWO 2nd's???? Here's the thing. Stewart on a playoff team plugs in on a third line in the Raffi Torres role. A 2nd really is the Kelly Blue Book on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Here's the thing. Stewart on a playoff team plugs in on a third line in the Raffi Torres role. A 2nd really is the Kelly Blue Book on that one. Fair enough on the Torres comparison. I just don't see him as less valuable than Vermette (at least in playoff situations), certainly not Timonen. Vermette might be more valuable in the regular season but when it comes down to the physicality of playoffs I don't see Vermette bring the intangibles that Stewart brings. Edited March 2, 2015 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I fell asleep and woke up thinking: Neuvirth got a fine return considering how late in the season it is for a rental goalie. Stewart's return was fine. Once we all realize that he's actually a bad player, not a good one, we'll realize we were silly to ever expect anything more. A second is a second. Could be a high pick too. Bad value for Mitchell but whatever. It was essentially just letting him walk because there's a very small chance either piece ever plays in Buffalo. But it's also a nice move by Murray to ship him home and let him contend. Flynn's deal was similar but I wouldn't say it's bad value. He's meh. Won't miss him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I fell asleep and woke up thinking: Neuvirth got a fine return considering how late in the season it is for a rental goalie. Stewart's return was fine. Once we all realize that he's actually a bad player, not a good one, we'll realize we were silly to ever expect anything more. A second is a second. Could be a high pick too. Bad value for Mitchell but whatever. It was essentially just letting him walk because there's a very small chance either piece ever plays in Buffalo. But it's also a nice move by Murray to ship him home and let him contend. Flynn's deal was similar but I wouldn't say it's bad value. He's meh. Won't miss him. I agree. I think another way to look at this is to say, which player that just walked out the door can't be replaced immediately, next season, 2016 season? Honestly everyone but Stewart is fairly easy to replace and Stewart is only difficult because our RW options are going to need some AHL time first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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