Neo Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I dabble, good friend. Credibility is a long way off. I want to visit, to touch, to hear, to smell, to taste. BRB, googling Gorky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My eyes water. What a recharge. I need to sober up with some boobie jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 We aren't in cap jail and Murray spent what he did for cap floor reasons. RFA contracts aren't going to break us and when they are UFA's the players you listed won't be on the team. And /end thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagBoy Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 We mustn't forget about Turgenev! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Dude. Time to check the meds and stop posting nude photos of Aunt Beatrice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Dude. Time to check the meds and stop posting nude photos of Aunt Beatrice. Is that even appropriate in a place like this?(the answer is no) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Defecting Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Some people just don't get it. You don't need to be lonely, At 19th Century Babes Only.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byebye Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Pretty sure that Glass was the 1st here to propose CH could be bought out and the reasoning is sound. He's young enough to qualify for a 1/3 buyout rather than the typical 2/3. He has underperformed enough this year to make it a very likely prospect. Right I forgot I read that! Compliance buyouts are over though, right? Big time, Bag boy! Fathers and Sons! Hunter's Sketches! WTF?! 21st Century 'Mericans just don't get it! Oh boy, if you want him, he's yours but you've got big boots to fill... And I'm warning you: 21st century American's just don't get it! However, like I say to all you guys... and gals, you don't need to be lonely, at 19th Century Babes Only .com I'm Canadian and I don't get it either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Defecting Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just use your imagination. :flirt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Right I forgot I read that! Compliance buyouts are over though, right? I'm Canadian and I don't get it either Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 As to your point on the percentage of the cap our top-9 skaters are getting, I think this is the way the league is trending. Since the CBA eliminated backdiving contracts, the elite are getting $9m+, greats $7m+, and good around $6m. In other words, spending is going to be increasingly skewed towards the top of the roster. Would you rather keep Kane and Toews together and have to find a cheaper replacement for Leddy, or lose one of your elite players to keep Leddy and hope you can get some cheaper replacement for Kane? I think most teams will opt to keep their top guys and hope they can find value to fill in the blanks. These are the choices that will be more common going forward, especially if cap growth slows. And I really don't want to turn this into an analytics debate, but this is where they will really come into play: being able to find undervalued commodities which fit into a top-heavy salary structure. ...and this is the stuff that will keep Stafford in the league a while, and possibly even give Flynn a chance at being a regular somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think I need more alcohol to read this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm Canadian and I don't get it either The French get it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Defecting Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 crusty hankercheif's buyout in June will come with a 700k cap penalty, hardly backbreaking. Gionta is on a three year deal. Moulson and Gorges will trend back toward thier career numbers. There is not really a deal that is above market value that will be on this team in 17-18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Behind the halcyon imagery lies a brutal truth of alcoholism, child abuse, and possible bestiality. You must put aside the nostalgia and look towards an enlightened future. Edited January 20, 2015 by sizzlemeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The French get it... Matisse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 oui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks Sabres.... Now we're all getting F'n Enlightened............ Do we get 100 Rewards points for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You know what separates that Matisse from a 6th grader's art class assignment? The face...and the subtly implied hairy underarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks Sabres.... Now we're all getting F'n Enlightened............ Do we get 100 Rewards points for that? You can only redeem them at 716 or the Sabres Store, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm trying to rectify the time it will take from being a historically horrific team, to the time that you can say this will be a legit, Top 8 team with 12-1 or better odds to win the Cup. Under this structure as-is, there is a honeypot of a chance 3-4 years out. Unless you have an amazing strike rate of prospects that develop at lightning speed.......where are you going to obtain top level NHL talent in a trade for any of your top 9 players under contract? If you wait for Girgs, Risto, Zadorov, Grig, Samuel to be actual top 9 players on a top team, you are realistically talking 3-4 years away from that progress.....at which time, they will be knocking on UFA contract status. I'm having a very hard time finding this equation being successful given the culture of suck, the open market worthlessness of your top 9 contract skaters, and the gap needing to be filled. I feel like watching this franchise, I am watching Bruce Willis with a 2 hour window to blow up an asteroid before it hits earth. I'm not saying Tim Murray is bad.......I like his honesty and eye........but he needs to be Top 5 in the league type of good to turn this into a viable group. Acquiring top NHL talent that develops quickly is the entire reason for tanking. Yes, someone like Armia takes 5 years to make it as a regular NHLer...Reinhart and whoever we draft this year are not the same as that. The timeline of prospects the quality of which we're drafting now simply is not the timeline you have in your head--it's much shorter. Did you read my post from one of the other threads? By year 2 these guys are among the top at their position. Seguin did squat offensively in his rookie year, and his second season he had over 60 points and was a mainstay on Bergeron's wing. I know it's probably hard to wrap your head around since the Sabres never get this caliber of prospect, but the rules are just different for those at the top of the draft than those taken in the middle of the round. We don't have to be able to trade for top-level NHL talent because we've drafted it. Moulson is at worst a 2nd line winger on a good team for a couple more years, Ennis is a top-6 forward on at least a decent team, Girgensons is a top-6 player with potential to be better. That's three there. Then you add Reinhart and whoever we draft this year, who should be at least good as rookies and very good to great in year 2, and you have 5/6 top-6 players. This isn't even considering if somebody like Grigorenko or Armia hit. By '16-17 your top-9 forwards look something like this *without any additional moves being made* Moulson-McEichel-XXX Ennis-Reinhart-XXX Gionta-Girgensons-XXX Unless we literally have blank spaces at RW, that's a roster that can get into the playoffs. Will they be a 110 point juggernaut in 2016? Probably not. But making the playoffs is not the insurmountable mountain you're making it out to be. Moulson is good for 40-50 points at the low end, Ennis around 50, Girgensons is going to get 40+ this year and should get better--these are all known quantities at this point. The question marks are exactly what Reinhart and McEichel will give us in their sophomore years, and I'm comfortable projecting them in the 60+ point area (easily better for McEichel). Last year Columbus made the playoffs with their leading scorer getting 63 points, and only had one other forward at 50, the rest in the 40s or less. Your precious Rangers were a 96 point team without a single player over 60 points, 3 in the 50s, 2 in the 40s, and the rest 30s or lower. Montreal had 100 points and their leading scorer among forwards was Pacioretty with 60, they had 1 player in the 50s, the rest 40s and below. We have established NHL talent in our forward ranks, even if they're overmatched playing key roles (that's what our to picks last year and this year are for); we're not an expansion team a half decade away from assembling anything. Assuming we hold on for the Shart, I think scoring is going to be the least of our problems two years from now (unless, of course, Reinhart or McEichel busts....in which case, ouch)--I'm more worried about defensive responsibility from those top forwards than scoring. Frankly, I'm far more concerned about goaltending right now. I don't think either Enroth or Neuvrith are as bad as they've played recently, but I also don't think they're starters on a good team. If it takes 5 years from now for this team to be competitive, then both the tank and Murray have failed. Five years is the right window, but that window opened when we started tanking, not from where we're at right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Acquiring top NHL talent that develops quickly is the entire reason for tanking. Yes, someone like Armia takes 5 years to make it as a regular NHLer...Reinhart and whoever we draft this year are not the same as that. The timeline of prospects the quality of which we're drafting now simply is not the timeline you have in your head--it's much shorter. Did you read my post from one of the other threads? By year 2 these guys are among the top at their position. Seguin did squat offensively in his rookie year, and his second season he had over 60 points and was a mainstay on Bergeron's wing. I know it's probably hard to wrap your head around since the Sabres never get this caliber of prospect, but the rules are just different for those at the top of the draft than those taken in the middle of the round. We don't have to be able to trade for top-level NHL talent because we've drafted it. Moulson is at worst a 2nd line winger on a good team for a couple more years, Ennis is a top-6 forward on at least a decent team, Girgensons is a top-6 player with potential to be better. That's three there. Then you add Reinhart and whoever we draft this year, who should be at least good as rookies and very good to great in year 2, and you have 5/6 top-6 players. This isn't even considering if somebody like Grigorenko or Armia hit. By '16-17 your top-9 forwards look something like this *without any additional moves being made* Moulson-McEichel-XXX Ennis-Reinhart-XXX Gionta-Girgensons-XXX Unless we literally have blank spaces at RW, that's a roster that can get into the playoffs. Will they be a 110 point juggernaut in 2016? Probably not. But making the playoffs is not the insurmountable mountain you're making it out to be. Moulson is good for 40-50 points at the low end, Ennis around 50, Girgensons is going to get 40+ this year and should get better--these are all known quantities at this point. The question marks are exactly what Reinhart and McEichel will give us in their sophomore years, and I'm comfortable projecting them in the 60+ point area (easily better for McEichel). Last year Columbus made the playoffs with their leading scorer getting 63 points, and only had one other forward at 50, the rest in the 40s or less. Your precious Rangers were a 96 point team without a single player over 60 points, 3 in the 50s, 2 in the 40s, and the rest 30s or lower. Montreal had 100 points and their leading scorer among forwards was Pacioretty with 60, they had 1 player in the 50s, the rest 40s and below. We have established NHL talent in our forward ranks, even if they're overmatched playing key roles (that's what our to picks last year and this year are for); we're not an expansion team a half decade away from assembling anything. Assuming we hold on for the Shart, I think scoring is going to be the least of our problems two years from now (unless, of course, Reinhart or McEichel busts....in which case, ouch)--I'm more worried about defensive responsibility from those top forwards than scoring. Frankly, I'm far more concerned about goaltending right now. I don't think either Enroth or Neuvrith are as bad as they've played recently, but I also don't think they're starters on a good team. If it takes 5 years from now for this team to be competitive, then both the tank and Murray have failed. Five years is the right window, but that window opened when we started tanking, not from where we're at right now. Excellent post. I'm a bit dubious about Moulson, but still a very nice job here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Moulson-McEichel-XXX Ennis-Reinhart-XXX Gionta-Girgensons-XXX Seeing that fills you with hope? k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 ...lots of reasonably argued ideas backed up by some reasonable numbers... Good post; you should be the go-to guy for media when they run into problems justifying the tank. If I were asked to point out any flaws in your argument, there are some variables in your reasoning that are more predictions than solid projections: Moulson's projected production, Samson and McEichel's sophomore production. Perhaps you're correct in qualifying your reasoning by pointing out that Sabres fans aren't used to the kind of upper-tier prospects the latter two are, but I think I need more evidence that your predictions for these two are on solid footing. Generally, I find your working of the numbers and conclusions based on thus are respectable, without more data, I don't know if I can buy into your predictions here at this point. Would love to, though, you understand. As for Moulson, I can buy into the implied argument that he's an accessory player rather than a leader, but I'm not sold on his production based on what I've seen from him so far. He is a nice guy, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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