Hired: Tim Murray, GM and Craig Patrick, Advisor

[That Aud Smell]

Sometimes you just have to admit things you don't want to.....like Pegula did 3 years too late.

Absolutely no argument there.

Nor here.

[dudacek]

So far, the biggest Pegula crime was investing the first few years of his leadership in Darcy.

I've read nothing but what great people the Pegulas are and the resources they've lavished on the hockey club seem to back it up.

Do any of you think they are too soft to be good owners?

I don't, but to me there is more evidence for that criticism than the "meddler" tag.

Edited February 11, 2014 by dudacek

[drnkirishone]

This whole arguement about pegula meddleing is based on pegula not knowing what he is doing and insisting that his idea/way is right. I can agree that he wouldnt know how to build a hockey team. But i dont see him being bullheaded and insisting his way is the right way. I keep seeing the erhoff thing coming up. What if the way it went down was pegula asked regier why erhoffs name has never come up as a FA target and the answer was we never had the resources to target the high end FAs. Is it then meddleing if he says you have what you need to pursue him?

[X. Benedict]

I know. We need to see the car on the road for a while.

 

I just laugh at guys like PA and myself taking flack for "reading the temperature" on a situation. We've been taking flack for years....and look where we are now with this team???

 

People develop track records. What some see as "negativity" or "reading into things", history sees as being absolutely correct. For those in doubt, pull up the Pegula Buys Sabres thread and read the concerns from some of "Stormcloud" back then, the projected outcome 3 years down the road, and take out your red pen with a straight face. Or feel free to review the season prediction threads from the past few years.

 

Sometimes you just have to admit things you don't want to.....like Pegula did 3 years too late.

 

Do you think failure vindicates?

 

It never does.

 

I have always posited:

 

Failure is what is common in sports. Only one team wins.

Failure proves nothing. Just that you've finished somewhere between #2 - #30.

Failure is so common - and happens for so many reasons - it is poor evidence.

 

What deserves ridicule is any theory that is not falsifiable. (see Karl Popper).

 

If I write that Jhonas Enroth is a locker room cancer.

That Tyler Meyers has an un-diagnosed condition of the inner ear that makes his balance wonky.

And that new hire Craig Patrick is really still working, secretly, and underhandedly for Columbus.

Terry Pegula is meddling by talking to his employees. well....

 

Any theory that is not falsifiable is lower than mere opinion.....opinions are opinions.

Non-falsifiable theories are really a form of detraction. Proving a negative. Good luck.

There is nothing to be learned from them.

 

Darcy at least said there would be suffering, was he lying?

Ultimately the team had to get blown up. That's not necessarily the ultimate failure.

 

Here's a challenge, what success have you predicted?

Is it ridicule to ask this?

 

Actually most posters have been very tolerant with the "theories" over the years or have just left altogether.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Uh huh...uh huh.....and if Terry wanted to make money, he'd drill another well. But then revenue sharing is an objective of Ted Black because he is protecting the next owner of the Buffalo Sabres.

 

If Pegula were sitting on his money like Jeff Loria and doing nothing, I could understand this complaint or point of view. Essentially, by complying with league rules he got free money delivered to him and/or the team. If he passed up on said free money, I could see some pointing to that as a fault in Terry as an owner. "He's so clueless that he left x million on the table...."

 

In the meantime, he's probably going to finish his project downtown before the Canalside area is fully functional. Those dollars could be what financed a portion of that building.

 

Lastly, as for Murray being a scout and not liking to be in contact with an owner, my personal view is that with promotions comes responsibility, much of which isn't loved. By taking on the role of GM, it's his job to keep Terry updated to the exact level he wants, be it through LaFontaine/Patrick or directly to the boss. Saying that he's gruff or doesn't want to do it doesn't fly anymore in my opinion, that bridge was burned the second he agreed to become a general manager.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

Do you think failure vindicates?

 

It never does.

 

I have always posited:

 

Failure is what is common in sports. Only one team wins.

Failure proves nothing. Just that you've finished somewhere between #2 - #30.

Failure is so common - and happens for so many reasons - it is poor evidence.

 

What deserves ridicule is any theory that is not falsifiable. (see Karl Popper).

 

If I write that Jhonas Enroth is a locker room cancer.

That Tyler Meyers has an un-diagnosed condition of the inner ear that makes his balance wonky.

And that new hire Craig Patrick is really still working, secretly, and underhandedly for Columbus.

Terry Pegula is meddling by talking to his employees. well....

 

Any theory that is not falsifiable is lower than mere opinion.....opinions are opinions.

Non-falsifiable theories are really a form of detraction. Proving a negative. Good luck.

There is nothing to be learned from them.

 

Darcy at least said there would be suffering, was he lying?

Ultimately the team had to get blown up. That's not necessarily the ultimate failure.

 

Here's a challenge, what success have you predicted?

Is it ridicule to ask this?

 

Actually most posters have been very tolerant with the "theories" over the years or have just left altogether.

 

Kris Letang just suffered a stroke as a result of a heart deformity that was present and identifiable by basic cardiac imaging since birth. His career and well-being are in question.

 

Please tell me again about Tyler Myers and my skepticism that the Sabres' medical staff understands or has properly tested him......

[Wyldnwoody44]

 

 

Kris Letang just suffered a stroke as a result of a heart deformity that was present and identifiable by basic cardiac imaging since birth. His career and well-being are in question.

 

Please tell me again about Tyler Myers and my skepticism that the Sabres' medical staff understands or has properly tested him......

From my limited connections, in speaking with one team doctor for the Sabres, he was unaware of an echo being done on Mr. Myers, and is not routinely done on the players.

 

I should have gone into ortho, thats where the gossip is all at

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

From my limited connections, in speaking with one team doctor for the Sabres, he was unaware of an echo being done on Mr. Myers, and is not routinely done on the players.

 

I should have gone into ortho, thats where the gossip is all at

 

That's what I figured.

 

In racing, there are multiple outfits that will not touch a horse without performing multiple circulatory and breathing imaging tests on the horse. This, even if they are thinking about spending $100,000....not $38,500,000

 

Thanks.

[Wyldnwoody44]

 

 

That's what I figured.

 

In racing, there are multiple outfits that will not touch a horse without performing multiple circulatory and breathing imaging tests on the horse. This, even if they are thinking about spending $100,000....not $38,500,000

 

Thanks.

 

No prob,

It is pretty ridiculous when a lot of primary care centers even have Staff on hand to take care of a simple echo....

 

My folks used to dabble in breeding dogs, St Bernard and pomeranians... And the process and the examination the dogs were put through, we're honestly more involved that what a lot of asymptomatic players receive.

 

Now I do feel that if there are trouble signs then the staff does a pretty good job of getting on top of it, especially with sports related injuries (minus the case of gerbe), but then again we all make mistakes, I certainly know that I do every month, but these guys really shouldnt miss anything huge.

 

Unfortunately in the case of letang, his condition may have very well been asymptomatic, however I'm guessing that a physician should have heard at the very least a murmur of some sorts that could of warranted further imaging, but thats information that I wish I knew.

 

To keep it on track, I'm neither here nor there on the hiring of TM, I will allow time to assess and honestly I don't know much about other candidates as well so who am I to actually judge lol

Edited February 11, 2014 by wyldnwoody44

[X. Benedict]

 

 

Please tell me again about Tyler Myers and my skepticism that the Sabres' medical staff understands or has properly tested him......

 

I actually don't recall you having an opinion on him. I was just fabricating because I was on a role.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Another viewpoint to the echo related to athletes - the athletes themselves may not want it to occur as it could negatively impact their earning power. Eddie Curry (I think) had a heart condition that was found out and there was a lot of noise made about whether or not his team could allow for a DNA test to be performed. A routine echo that may find this structural defect may be something the players themselves don't allow?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Another viewpoint to the echo related to athletes - the athletes themselves may not want it to occur as it could negatively impact their earning power. Eddie Curry (I think) had a heart condition that was found out and there was a lot of noise made about whether or not his team could allow for a DNA test to be performed. A routine echo that may find this structural defect may be something the players themselves don't allow?

 

Now that's a GREAT point!

 

There may be something in the CBA.

 

Most things aren't life threatening. I find it silly that the NHL hooks these guys up to a bike until they puke, but won't find out about the hardware that drives the results.

 

 

 

No prob,

It is pretty ridiculous when a lot of primary care centers even have Staff on hand to take care of a simple echo....

 

My folks used to dabble in breeding dogs, St Bernard and pomeranians... And the process and the examination the dogs were put through, we're honestly more involved that what a lot of asymptomatic players receive.

 

Now I do feel that if there are trouble signs then the staff does a pretty good job of getting on top of it, especially with sports related injuries (minus the case of gerbe), but then again we all make mistakes, I certainly know that I do every month, but these guys really shouldnt miss anything huge.

 

Unfortunately in the case of letang, his condition may have very well been asymptomatic, however I'm guessing that a physician should have heard at the very least a murmur of some sorts that could of warranted further imaging, but thats information that I wish I knew.

 

To keep it on track, I'm neither here nor there on the hiring of TM, I will allow time to assess and honestly I don't know much about other candidates as well so who am I to actually judge lol

 

I hope they didn't breed the St. Bernards TO the Pomeranians.....

[Assquatch]

I hope they didn't breed the St. Bernards TO the Pomeranians.....

 

That would be like an elephant making love to a pig.

[MattPie]

Now that's a GREAT point!

 

There may be something in the CBA.

 

Most things aren't life threatening. I find it silly that the NHL hooks these guys up to a bike until they puke, but won't find out about the hardware that drives the results.

 

You know, there might even be laws about what tests an employer can ask an employee to undergo. Silly things like privacy and HIPAA regs.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

You know, there might even be laws about what tests an employer can ask an employee to undergo. Silly things like privacy and HIPAA regs.

 

Although you need to pass a physical for a trade to go through.

 

I still think it is all fair game and teams choose not to pay the extra $50K a year to get a baseline and follow their guys.

 

It was a great idea and point by Shannon's +/- though.

[Wyldnwoody44]

 

 

Now that's a GREAT point!

 

There may be something in the CBA.

 

Most things aren't life threatening. I find it silly that the NHL hooks these guys up to a bike until they puke, but won't find out about the hardware that drives the results.

 

 

 

I hope they didn't breed the St. Bernards TO the Pomeranians.....

Well duh.... Promenards

[LTS]

That's what I figured.

 

In racing, there are multiple outfits that will not touch a horse without performing multiple circulatory and breathing imaging tests on the horse. This, even if they are thinking about spending $100,000....not $38,500,000

 

Thanks.

 

Horses are treated as property. That's been illegal in the United States for some time. It's a different tune when it's a person. You can discriminate against a horse.

 

Now that's a GREAT point!

 

There may be something in the CBA.

 

Most things aren't life threatening. I find it silly that the NHL hooks these guys up to a bike until they puke, but won't find out about the hardware that drives the results.

 

I hope they didn't breed the St. Bernards TO the Pomeranians.....

 

What they test are the outward measures of the player. They can't peak under the cover. In theory where does the line end? Can your employer perform a routine psych test on you? What if they determine a certain risk factor in mental health profile makes it slightly more likely you'd be involved in a violent incident in the workplace? Perhaps your profile says that while you say you have no problem with people from other cultures your body language suggested that you were lying.

 

Bottom line.. there's no way it could be required. If we move the argument to the personal responsibility realm do you think an athlete would get their own test done? What if it showed something? Do they address it? How does that impact them in the sport?

 

Tough questions. I think I would want to know.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

Horses are treated as property. That's been illegal in the United States for some time. It's a different tune when it's a person. You can discriminate against a horse.

 

 

 

What they test are the outward measures of the player. They can't peak under the cover. In theory where does the line end? Can your employer perform a routine psych test on you? What if they determine a certain risk factor in mental health profile makes it slightly more likely you'd be involved in a violent incident in the workplace? Perhaps your profile says that while you say you have no problem with people from other cultures your body language suggested that you were lying.

 

Bottom line.. there's no way it could be required. If we move the argument to the personal responsibility realm do you think an athlete would get their own test done? What if it showed something? Do they address it? How does that impact them in the sport?

 

Tough questions. I think I would want to know.

 

But then why do guys have to pass a physical for a trade to go through? Don't you have a right to x-ray bones and joints? What's the difference if it is a muscle?

 

If I question Ryan Miller's depth perception, am I allowed to test his vision?

 

 

 

Guys have to pass a physical for contracts as well.

[That Aud Smell]

Horses are treated as property. That's been illegal in the United States for some time. It's a different tune when it's a person. You can discriminate against a horse.

 

This thought occurred to me this morning as I was getting out of the shower.

 

And, yes. That means I was thinking of GoDD when I was getting out of the shower.

 

But then why do guys have to pass a physical for a trade to go through? Don't you have a right to x-ray bones and joints? What's the difference if it is a muscle?

 

If I question Ryan Miller's depth perception, am I allowed to test his vision?

 

 

Guys have to pass a physical for contracts as well.

An interesting question. Is a "physical" a defined term here? Strikes me that it might be, and that these physicals may generally resemble the sort of routine examinations that many of us go through.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

[/size]

 

This thought occurred to me this morning as I was getting out of the shower.

 

And, yes. That means I was thinking of GoDD when I was getting out of the shower.

 

 

An interesting question. Is a "physical" a defined term here? Strikes me that it might be, and that these physicals may generally resemble the sort of routine examinations that many of us go through.

 

They turn guys down for knees and shoulders on pending contracts.

 

I still think it is the teams being cheap, not understanding, or not wanting to be on the hook for retirements. Imagine if Myers really does have an enlarged aorta and a real possibility it can go at some point. Would the team rather not know and if he dies he dies? Would they want to protect the player and human being and risk early retirement? Or are they just clueless as to the multiple risk factors he has shown?

 

 

[Stoner]

[/size]

 

And, yes. That means I was thinking of GoDD when I was getting out of the shower.

 

 

Don't bury the lead. You were thinking of GoDD, shirtless, on horseback, when you were IN the shower.

Edited February 12, 2014 by PASabreFan

[X. Benedict]

Don't bury the lead. You were thinking of GoDD, shirtless, on horseback, when you were IN the shower.

 

The Lady GoDDiva? We've all thought of that at one time or another, haven't we?

[dudacek]

I've always had a thing for rings and ruffles.

[X. Benedict]

I've always had a thing for rings and ruffles.

They are nice, right?

[That Aud Smell]

and if he dies he dies?

 

http://youtu.be/wqR0Rd4dbfA