Weave Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 According to this NY Times article junior hockey in both the USA and Canada is on the verge of eliminating fighting in their programs. Discuss... http://www.nytimes.c...XqLYswVuiUA7Pvg FRESNO, Calif. — Viewing fighting as a safety issue in light of increasing concussion research, and unwilling to wait for the National Hockey League to propose changes, USA Hockey and Hockey Canada are seriously considering rules that would effectively end fighting in nonprofessional leagues as soon as next season.The rules would apply to dozens of leagues stretching from near the Arctic Circle to south Texas. Even the three top junior leagues in Canada, major fight-friendly feeder systems to the N.H.L., are considering immediate ways to make fighting a rarity, not an expectation. “The official stance from Hockey Canada is that we want to get rid of fighting as quickly as we can,” said Bob Nicholson, the organization’s chief executive, overseeing more than half a million amateur players across Canada, including about 32,000 adults and 10,000 juniors (16 to 20 years old) not in the top-tier Canadian Hockey League. “Our ultimate goal is to remove fighting.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 saw this as well. the juniors (the ohl, at least) also banned heat shots in a way that the nhl has not. i think there is a greater concern at the amateur level to reduce the long-term risks of concussions because a large majority of their players will not become professionals. i think that the feeling is, in part, that once the players become professionals, they can be permitted to take on more risk. at least, that appears to be the current thinking. it will be interesting to see whether the nhl eventually moves against fighting in a manner similar to the way it moved against head shots -- not outlawing them outright like the ohl did, but working to curtail it substantially. one thing that comes to mind is handing out big supplementary discipline for staged fights -- and perhaps not just to the players involved (but also to teams, coaches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Why have a hockey program with no hockey in it? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 According to this NY Times article junior hockey in both the USA and Canada is on the verge of eliminating hockey in their programs. Discuss... http://www.nytimes.c...XqLYswVuiUA7Pvg :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 According to this NY Times article junior hockey in both the USA and Canada is on the verge of eliminating hockey in their programs. Discuss... If they eliminate hockey - what would they do - take up curling? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 If they eliminate hockey - what would they do - take up curling? haha figure skating of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 :o OOPS!! Freudian slip I guess. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 That's pretty interesting. I'm pretty ambivalent on fighting. I like a good fight as much as anyone, but way too many fights are staged nonsense and nothing but wrestling matches. I think legitimate fights (ie. the ones that actually happen for a reason) play an important role, but I also get the sense that they're becoming fewer over time compared to the staged junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I go to a lot of OHL games. I absolutely despise seeing these teenagers punch each other in the head. Even before the whole concussion issue, I didn't understand why the CHL would let these teenagers knowingly injure themselves. If the NHL want grown men making large amounts of money to punch each other in the visors fine. Look what fighting has evolved into. You got guys out there punching each other with bare hands into helmuts and shields. I f fighting continues the helmut must come off. I pretty sure there is a rule in the CHL right now that prohibits players from removing them in a fight. The real issue I have with USA hockey is that they moved the hitting age up from 12 to 14. Hitting is part of the game. I happens between the whistles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 That makes so much sense to me. That crap has no place when kids are on the ice. I just can't understand the appeal of watching a couple 17 year olds punching each other in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 That makes so much sense to me. That crap has no place when kids are on the ice. I just can't understand the appeal of watching a couple 17 year olds punching each other in the face. The pressure on kids in major junior to fight is disgusting. But what about gold gloves boxing matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The pressure on kids in major junior to fight is disgusting. But what about gold gloves boxing matches? I've never seen a second of that so I'm not really aware of what goes on there. Anything with teenagers punching each other in the head is a joke to me though. Speaking of boxing, I don't know how that sport is going to survive this concussion backlash. It's already fallen on hard times and this could just about kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Speaking of boxing, I don't know how that sport is going to survive this concussion backlash. It's already fallen on hard times and this could just about kill it. Humankind is evolving and while you see protective movements out there, a more barbaric side is taking control more often than not. I am blown away at the popularity of MMA or whatever you want to call it and they are actually kicking each other in the head. So boxing is tame by comparison to me. We dont know what these MMA guys will end up like in 15 years though. Also more human barbaric examples are the druggies in Mexico and the const ant beheadings, the Pirates makling a comeback in a violent way and then just terrorists in general. Not sure if this related or not :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'm not fond of watching teeneagers fight either, although I will confess to getting giddy while watching Kassian's fistic endevours after we drafted him. And I totally understand why the minor leagues feel like they should eliminate fighting. What I was hoping to pull out of that article was, what do you all expect the effect of a defacto ban on fighting in the feeder leagues will do to the NHL? And do you support that effect? IMO if major junior leagues outlaw fighting it will come pretty close to ending fighting in the NHL without the NHL having to do much of anything about it. If you look at players that come from systems that don't tolerate fighting (Europe and USA college), they rarely become guys that fight when they get into the NHL. It is almost universally the guys that come from leagues with a fighting culture that do any fighting in the NHL. If that culture suddenly disappears in juniors I don't see how it survives in the NHL. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? I guess that depends on your POV. We all admit that fights are entertaining and fans really get into the game when fights break out. But, and I've mentioned this before, I have become rather torn on the issue given all of the evidence out there that fighting is causing long term harn to the guys I root for. Anyway.... something to chew on to maybe lead the conversation down a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not that I must have fighting in hockey, but what happens if it is banned, and Lucic freight trains Miller again. Everybody just skates to their bench while they wheel the stretcher out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not that I must have fighting in hockey, but what happens if it is banned, and Lucic freight trains Miller again. Everybody just skates to their bench while they wheel the stretcher out? This is a great point. I like seeing fights here and there, especially after something like what you mentioned, and i think it helps set a tone (just look at the ottawa Boston game, Ottawa almost came back in that one after Neil went down on top of Chara...yeah that sounds dirty...). I don't think it should be outlawed completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not that I must have fighting in hockey, but what happens if it is banned, and Lucic freight trains Miller again. Everybody just skates to their bench while they wheel the stretcher out? The fight still happens, but then both players are tossed from the game. A ban doesn't mean fights won't happen. They are just punished more harshly. I'm not fond of watching teeneagers fight either, although I will confess to getting giddy while watching Kassian's fistic endevours after we drafted him. And I totally understand why the minor leagues feel like they should eliminate fighting. What I was hoping to pull out of that article was, what do you all expect the effect of a defacto ban on fighting in the feeder leagues will do to the NHL? And do you support that effect? IMO if major junior leagues outlaw fighting it will come pretty close to ending fighting in the NHL without the NHL having to do much of anything about it. If you look at players that come from systems that don't tolerate fighting (Europe and USA college), they rarely become guys that fight when they get into the NHL. It is almost universally the guys that come from leagues with a fighting culture that do any fighting in the NHL. If that culture suddenly disappears in juniors I don't see how it survives in the NHL. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? I guess that depends on your POV. We all admit that fights are entertaining and fans really get into the game when fights break out. But, and I've mentioned this before, I have become rather torn on the issue given all of the evidence out there that fighting is causing long term harn to the guys I root for. Anyway.... something to chew on to maybe lead the conversation down a different direction. I think it may bring on the end of the side show choreographed fights that I harp on so much. The spontaneous stuff will always be there, but if they're not pre-trained to fight as a way to appease the fans, I really can't see those ones lasting where the guys square up 5 feet apart for two minutes before even coming in contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not that I must have fighting in hockey, but what happens if it is banned, and Lucic freight trains Miller again. Everybody just skates to their bench while they wheel the stretcher out? What happens when Tom Brady gets ground into the turf? Suspensions fines and penalties if doled out correctly will ebb most of the stupid hits. The change of play from players like Cook and Kaleta show that the league has to change the game. The players "policing" themselves just doesn't work anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 That's pretty interesting. I'm pretty ambivalent on fighting. I like a good fight as much as anyone, but way too many fights are staged nonsense and nothing but wrestling matches. I think legitimate fights (ie. the ones that actually happen for a reason) play an important role, but I also get the sense that they're becoming fewer over time compared to the staged junk. Same here - if fighting went out of the game at all levels, it would still be hockey. It is still in the NHL game because fans like it and the "code" says you have to stand up for yourself or a teammate if an opponent sticks it to you (legally or not). For those of you too young to remember, the NHL went through some of the same arguments back in the 70's when the Flyers (among others) were gooning it up and bench-clearing brawls became almost commonplace. No doubt that was entertaining (if you go in for chaos), but it became a sideshow. NHL hockey was being compared to pro wrestling, which had a worse reputation back then than it does now. (I think it was not accidental that the NHL cleaned up its act after the movie "Slap Shot" came out in 1977). I can go along with no fighting in juniors - college hockey doesn't allow it, so why not ban it in juniors? If it went away in the NHL, I wouldn't miss it either. You just have to have the officials (on-ice as well as Shanny and Colin) crack down on cheap, dirty hits. Automatic suspensions, severe penalties for repeat offenders, etc. NFL football is at least as violent as NHL hockey and they keep a pretty tight lid on any player throwing a punch. You rarely see the kind of post-whistle scuffles that you do in the NHL. It really is ingrained in the culture of hockey that you have to fight to resolve issues. If it is eliminated in the feeder leagues, soon it will decrease in the NHL/AHL and maybe eventually disappear entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I've no problem with fighting disappearing and I think by banning it in the feeder leagues you will see that happen in the NHL as was alluded to earlier. I think fights will still happen because there are times when it has to happen. But for all the complaints about fighting in the pros is that really where the majority of the concussions come from? I think the level of fighting that occurs at the lower levels is definitely a concern but I'm wondering about in the NHL. It seems to me those concussions are usually caused more by violent hits than punches. It's hard to say. Frankly I would prefer to see some science and some intelligence go into keeping the best players on the ice. I've never been a fan of Crosby but I don't like that his career is in jeopardy. There are just too many players being out for extended times for concussions and it ruins the game. Anyway.. I'm all for banning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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