rickshaw Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I have a serious issue with players who deliver a good, clean body check having to fight for doing so. This generation of players seems to have a big problem accepting that they've been hit cleanly. Example today: Ryan Clowe was hit into the boards but Justin Abdelkader cleanly with about 5 mins to go in the 3rd. Next thing you know, the undersized JA is challenged by Clowe and accepts. JA hung in there after taking some big shots but I don't think he should have had to go. The hit was clean. Not dirty. Cheap hit, then I have zero issue with the fight. But the his text book hockey. Between the benches, Panger says Bertuzzi was saying the same thing and Thornton told him JA has to go there. No questions asked basically. The same Joe Thornton who has the following stat line.... 20 pims 25 hits This is, to me, part of what is wrong with hockey players today. Clean hits should not mean fighting should happen. Fights are a perfect deterrent to bad hits and I'm all for them. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Spontaneous fighting is entertaining and leads to ill will, which leads to more fighting. I like to see them at every chance. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 There are times when tempers will flare even after a clean hit, or where a guy is looking for an excuse to fight to pump up his team, but generally, I can see where you're coming from, rickshaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Problem is the league has become so litigious with guys not hitting because they are worried about suspension....so when you get that now, odd huge check......it's a rarity that triggers guys wanting to go. I agree that it shouldn't be that way, but there would be 5 of these hits 20-30 years ago for every one we see today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think it's just such a fine line between what is and isn't a legal hit anymore that sometimes players aren't sure, but don't want to miss their chance to stand up for a team mate. Nobody wants to be the next Paul Gaustad sitting there doing nothing after their guy got cheap shotted. I think a lot of the time players won't even see the hit -- they'll just see their guy going down hard and assume the hitter took some liberties. I think most will agree it shouldn't be this way, but I don't see it changing any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 This is a great thing to bring up, because it seems players are more willing to fight after a clean hit than a dirty one nowadays. A couple of days ago when Marchand submarined Emilin, noone went after him for that. Is it simply that the teams need the PP so bad they don't want to screw it up and on a clean hit the aggressor isn't really worried about the penalties off-setting? I hate these players having to stand up for clean hits. I understand if someone goes after Kaleta of a couple of years ago. The checks were for the most part clean, but he was running around like a mad man hitting everything (God I Miss That!) If a player is fed up after that fine, but why not use the instigator penalty for those who need to chase down a player after a nice hit as stated in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think you're seeing this right now, if you're watching Hendricks and Joslin. And now you're seeing it again with Brouwer and Faulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Its crap to have to drop the gloves after laying someone out with a clean hit. Dirty hit fine. You live by the sword... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I see this in youth/HS hockey as well. Not that they fight, but they get cleanly drilled, then have to go after the guy with a slash or a punch. You got hit, kid; face it, own up to it and get even later, CLEANLY. As for the NHL, the instigator penalty has to go. There'd be less of this type fighting and more protection of stars, IMHO. Shrader, what say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I see this in youth/HS hockey as well. Not that they fight, but they get cleanly drilled, then have to go after the guy with a slash or a punch. You got hit, kid; face it, own up to it and get even later, CLEANLY. As for the NHL, the instigator penalty has to go. There'd be less of this type fighting and more protection of stars, IMHO. Shrader, what say you? Player poll says 53% want the instigator penalty left in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 As for the NHL, the instigator penalty has to go. There'd be less of this type fighting and more protection of stars, IMHO. Shrader, what say you? I think the opposite is true. The instigator penalty should be enforced more.. that way when a player goes after another player for a clean hit, they are getting a 2 minute penalty and hurting their own team. Like a few weeks/months ago when Matt Ellis dropped the gloves after a guy (I think it was from Philly?) laid a hard, questionable hit on another Sabre... that's actually the only time I can even recall seeing the instigator penalty called... It was total ######, at the time, because you NEVER see the penalty called... and yet here's Matt Ellis, a non fighter, sticking up for his team mate and the ref decides to pull out the instigator penalty? Whatever, I've seen way worse occurrences of "instigating" than that one go uncalled. But my point is if you call that EVERY time... instead of once every 500 times... maybe it stops. The only other time I can recall an instigator being called was the Boston game when Thornton came off the bench and went after someone, but that's really an entirely different situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think instigating a fight after a clean hit, even if you have to go to the replay to show it was clean, should get you a 10-minute misconduct and a 5-minute major. The guy you maul only gets 2 minutes for roughing if he throws a punch, otherwise nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think the opposite is true. The instigator penalty should be enforced more.. that way when a player goes after another player for a clean hit, they are getting a 2 minute penalty and hurting their own team. Like a few weeks/months ago when Matt Ellis dropped the gloves after a guy (I think it was from Philly?) laid a hard, questionable hit on another Sabre... that's actually the only time I can even recall seeing the instigator penalty called... It was total ######, at the time, because you NEVER see the penalty called... and yet here's Matt Ellis, a non fighter, sticking up for his team mate and the ref decides to pull out the instigator penalty? Whatever, I've seen way worse occurrences of "instigating" than that one go uncalled. But my point is if you call that EVERY time... instead of once every 500 times... maybe it stops. The only other time I can recall an instigator being called was the Boston game when Thornton came off the bench and went after someone, but that's really an entirely different situation. That was when Gerbe got his concussion. Gerbe was lying in a heap, and Ellis gets penalized. That is the perfect argument for why the instigator rule ought to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I see this in youth/HS hockey as well. Not that they fight, but they get cleanly drilled, then have to go after the guy with a slash or a punch. You got hit, kid; face it, own up to it and get even later, CLEANLY. As for the NHL, the instigator penalty has to go. There'd be less of this type fighting and more protection of stars, IMHO. Shrader, what say you? It's this stupid technology age where every single hit is played over and over on the internet. These guys hate being embarrassed so they throw punches immediately. And like you said, it happens at every level now. I just had one sunday night where this guy on the other team hit one of our players and then immediately began throwing punches (that's right, he threw the check and then started the "fight"). As for the instigator stuff, I have to agree with thechimp on this one. Instigate a fight after a clean hit? More time in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 i agree wholeheartedly with rickshaw's sentiment. i also agree that even the commentariat (a word? i am not sure. hey - it is NOW) appear fully subscribed to the idea that if you destroy someone with a clearly clean check, you will need to answer for it by dropping the gloves. this particular development is perhaps further evidence that "the code" is a malleable and fuzzy bit of doctrine. I think it's just such a fine line between what is and isn't a legal hit anymore that sometimes players aren't sure, but don't want to miss their chance to stand up for a team mate. Nobody wants to be the next Paul Gaustad sitting there doing nothing after their guy got cheap shotted. It's this stupid technology age where every single hit is played over and over on the internet. These guys hate being embarrassed so they throw punches immediately. really good stuff there, boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 I have a serious issue with players who deliver a good, clean body check having to fight for doing so. This generation of players seems to have a big problem accepting that they've been hit cleanly. Yeah, this has bothered me for the last few years. I see NFL defensive backs nail receivers coming over the middle and after the hit, they pat each other on the hiney and go back to their respective huddles. If you see a similar hit in the NHL, suddenly everybody wants to drop the gloves. Whatever happened to noting the number of the player that just knocked you down, waiting for an appropriate opportunity and then laying him out with a nice, clean check? Too much bravado or testosterone or something. If it's a dirty hit, or even borderline, well that's reason to drop 'em, but otherwise? Be a man about it. (I think i saw too much of Mike Milbury over the weekend.... :blink: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 the answer is simple of course. Cause if they don't fight after they take a clean hit then someone on the internet will claim they are soft and a ###### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 weirdly prescient thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 weirdly prescient thread. Should I be worried that Harry Neale agrees with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Should I be worried that Harry Neale agrees with me? Depends on how many drinks you had last night. You may have been in the same frame of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmann2 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The checks happen so fast a player doesn't know if they are clean or not. It's like knocking over someone's drink in a bar. Could be bad or nothing could happen. Fighting is a part of the game that does not need to be evaluated. You take fighting out of the NHL and watch the attendance plummet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 My idea sucks, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redemption City Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/111325 - Jason Chimera and Ryan Malone demonstrating why it's not a good idea to try fighting someone after a big hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.