Marvelo Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sabres shooting percentage is 15th in the league. There are only 9 teams below the Sabres in shooting percentage. IMO with a quarter of the season gone, the cream rises to the top and the Sabres are firmly below-mediocre. http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_ShotPercentage.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 While Vanek and Pommer have looked good this season, both have also been invisible during the Sabres' recent lousy stretch. They've certainly had better years than the 3-8 guys, but not enough to make me say they are untouchable. My first choice would be to turn Roy and Stafford into other assets but I'm open to anything. My bottom line is that other than Vanek, each of the top 6-8 forwards is essentially a skilled complementary player -- not a guy who can be counted on to consistently deliver a powerful, game-affecting performance. None of them is a physical presence, none of them is tough to play against and none of them delivers in crunch time. (I think that the jury is still out on Gerbe and Ennis though.) We are not in disagreement. IMO there is no untouchable on the team. I would just focus elsewhere well before focusing on Vanek and Pommer. And that opinion of Pommer is new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Even with all of our injuries, we would be a playoff team (if the season were over today) and we are just 7 points from the first seed and 4 points from the second seed with 58 games left in the season. Yet, you guys want to get rid of Lindy? I like the fact that Lindy is one of our own (as a player and coach for so many years and a part of the community) and has been the coach for so many years. There is no reason to get rid of Lindy. Just my two cents. He has never failed to meet reasonable expectations. People look at the personnel on the team, say, "wow, this team won't win a round of the playoffs, but they'll at least get there" and then blame someone other than the personnel when that expectation is, in fact, met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 He has never failed to meet reasonable expectations. People look at the personnel on the team, say, "wow, this team won't win a round of the playoffs, but they'll at least get there" and then blame someone other than the personnel when that expectation is, in fact, met. Is asking a coach to get more out of his players really too much to ask? It shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Is asking a coach to get more out of his players really too much to ask? It shouldn't be. Not the issue. If you're looking at this roster and saying something like the above, it's the roster, not the coach, that is the problem. What more do you think Scotty Bowman would get out of Matt Ellis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Not the issue. If you're looking at this roster and saying something like the above, it's the roster, not the coach, that is the problem. What more do you think Scotty Bowman would get out of Matt Ellis? I'd bet donuts to dollars he could get more out of Vanek, Roy and Myers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'd bet dollars to donuts he could get more out of Vanek, Roy and Myers. Didn't we once discuss how the "dollars to donuts" metaphor is losing value with the rising cost of donuts? Anyway, at this point, I am beginning to think there are 29 coaches who could get more out of Roy. Millbank's observation is not lost on me; that boy might just need a change of scenery. Stafford DEFINITELY does. (Or rather, I need him out of my scenery when I'm at the F'N Center.) Vanek and Myers, no; I think Ruff gets everything out of those two that any other coach would. In fact, Lindy's coaching decision to bench Myers had quite the effect on the young 'un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Didn't we once discuss how the "dollars to donuts" metaphor is losing value with the rising cost of donuts? Anyway, at this point, I am beginning to think there are 29 coaches who could get more out of Roy. Millbank's observation is not lost on me; that boy might just need a change of scenery. Stafford DEFINITELY does. (Or rather, I need him out of my scenery when I'm at the F'N Center.) Vanek and Myers, no; I think Ruff gets everything out of those two that any other coach would. In fact, Lindy's coaching decision to bench Myers had quite the effect on the young 'un. I fixed my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'd bet donuts to dollars he could get more out of Vanek, Roy and Myers. Hard to say....the same way he got more out of Gare, Schonny, and Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'd bet donuts to dollars he could get more out of Vanek, Roy and Myers. Hard to say....the same way he got more out of Gare, Schonny, and Smith? And.. we've come full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 And.. we've come full circle. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hard to say....the same way he got more out of Gare, Schonny, and Smith? Didn't Bowman get over 300 goals in return in the trade? I would say that was "getting more out of them." Wouldn't you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Didn't Bowman get over 300 goals in return in the trade? I would say that was "getting more out of them." Wouldn't you say. Once Lindy can trade people, we'll compare notes. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Didn't Bowman get over 300 goals in return in the trade? I would say that was "getting more out of them." Wouldn't you say. No. He was an idiot GM in Buffalo. He may have learned some lessons in that area while here, but he was a complete idiot of a GM in this town. Maybe the worst the Sabres ever had (but it's a contest). As a coach here? Who the hell knows. His coaching record in every city except this one (and even including Saint Louis) says that he's incredible in that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Didn't Bowman get over 300 goals in return in the trade? I would say that was "getting more out of them." Wouldn't you say. Really? Now you're taking the position that Scotty was a good GM here? Are you still holding onto the Kovy trade being a great move for NJ? How about the whole "Roy is better than Briere" meme? It's possible to find fault with aspects of this team (or anything, for that matter) without going for the full monty and insisting that everything about it is terrible and everything else is better. Hysterical overstatements tend to harm credibility. No. He was an idiot GM in Buffalo. He may have learned some lessons in that area while here, but he was a complete idiot of a GM in this town. Maybe the worst the Sabres ever had (but it's a contest). As a coach here? Who the hell knows. His coaching record in every city except this one (and even including Saint Louis) says that he's incredible in that role. 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm too lazy to look up the video of Pegula saying "he ain't going nowhere" but I think we all remember it. Good organizations don't knee jerk fire people they just extended. Not saying Lindy and/or Darcy don't deserve it. Just that Pegula doing a 180 now will just make the Sabres look bad. You give them the season at the very least and it will have to be a total collapse to force a change. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannustyrannus Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Good organizations don't knee jerk fire people they just extended. Not saying Lindy and/or Darcy don't deserve it. Just that Pegula doing a 180 now will just make the Sabres look bad. You give them the season at the very least and it will have to be a total collapse to force a change. PTR I have to agree with that. It would be like trading Regehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverenough Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I have to agree with that. It would be like trading Regehr. Regehr?, it would be like trading Tim Connolly :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Really? Now you're taking the position that Scotty was a good GM here? Are you still holding onto the Kovy trade being a great move for NJ? How about the whole "Roy is better than Briere" meme? It's possible to find fault with aspects of this team (or anything, for that matter) without going for the full monty and insisting that everything about it is terrible and everything else is better. Hysterical overstatements tend to harm credibility. 100% correct. Again, Kovi was the best player in the NHL over the last half of the Season. Roy has 272 points and Briere has 238 points since Briere jumped ship. I never said Bowman was the greatest GM in Sabres history. He did get great value in the Gare trade, which was the point. He is the greatest coach in NHL history and could easily get more out the Sabres current roster than Ruff is, even at his current age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Good organizations don't knee jerk fire people they just extended. Not saying Lindy and/or Darcy don't deserve it. Just that Pegula doing a 180 now will just make the Sabres look bad. You give them the season at the very least and it will have to be a total collapse to force a change. PTR Even if the extensions were "knee jerk"? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Even if the extensions were "knee jerk"? ;) But it wasn't. It was based upon a lengthy record. Fitzpatrick--that's a knee-jerk reaction of an extension. Not Ruff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 But it wasn't. It was based upon a lengthy record. Fitzpatrick--that's a knee-jerk reaction of an extension. Not Ruff. You mean the lengthy record of two playoff misses and two first round exits in the last 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 While Vanek and Pommer have looked good this season, both have also been invisible during the Sabres' recent lousy stretch. They've certainly had better years than the 3-8 guys, but not enough to make me say they are untouchable. My first choice would be to turn Roy and Stafford into other assets but I'm open to anything. My bottom line is that other than Vanek, each of the top 6-8 forwards is essentially a skilled complementary player -- not a guy who can be counted on to consistently deliver a powerful, game-affecting performance. None of them is a physical presence, none of them is tough to play against and none of them delivers in crunch time. (I think that the jury is still out on Gerbe and Ennis though.) I agree 100% and reached the same conclusion a while ago. There are plenty of pieces here to enter the market if that becomes necessary. There are not that many moves that need to be made. The team is close. I began to watch Vanek in college. I had hoped in the last four years they would finally pair him with a one center so i would know if my instincts were correct. He is, right now, the Sabres only impact player. He is the guy that draws the shutdown line. That is the context within which he plays every game. Do you think people realize that and undestand what it means time and space wise. Pom is a nice piece but when coupled with a less than physical play small center and Vaneks skating defects, that line loses it staying power in the zone. Vanek is at best, average on the offensive boards, and with Hecht and Pom the line is undersize, especially when opposed by the other teams best defensive line.The same problem exists when Roy centers. It could be interesting to watch Adam, Vanek, Kassian for a couple of shifts or Adam, Boyes/Tropp,Vanek. A bigger, physical RW with a forcheck game, hands(not Stafford) and some offensive instincts. I mention Adam because of his size, Hecht would probably be ok too with a bigger RW because his vision and hands are better than Adams right now. The point is . When you play against the best defensive line the other team has and your two linemates are play small guys, it is just too easy for the D to take you off the puck and exit the zone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 You mean the lengthy record of two playoff misses and two first round exits in the last 4 years? Were there reasonable expectations to the contrary, given the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Good organizations don't knee jerk fire people they just extended. Not saying Lindy and/or Darcy don't deserve it. Just that Pegula doing a 180 now will just make the Sabres look bad. You give them the season at the very least and it will have to be a total collapse to force a change. PTR And the team failing to come to Miller's defense after the Lucic hit didn't make the team look bad? I continue to marvel at the doggedly enthusiastic support for a coach with a record that is barely over .500. There are only six players left on this team from five seasons ago (five if you leave out Miller). Even with all the new players, Ruff's teams over the past five years have lacked effort and heart. I know! Let's shuffle out the current players, bring in some more mid-level talent and miss the playoffs with a whole new roster. Yay! :thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.