dEnnis the Menace Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Why? Because I don't suck Millers asss like you do! ... and if he had outplayed the scrub goalies his team would have moved on, they didn't, Next! He played exceptional good hockey for 1 half of a season and won 2 individual trophies. When it mattered in the NHL playoffs he gets beat by scrubs. Can't dispute the facts, so stop trying to make excuses for him. Oh yeah found Enroths stats in a post in the caps game day thread. They differ from yours quite a bit. I believe his point was this: Enroth Stats: Before Boston game: 6 GP, 1.34 GAA, 0.955 S% Since Boston game: 7 GP, 2.82 GAA, 0.906 S% (Wasn't sure where to put Boston game relief) So, basically, since Miller went down, Enroth has turned into Last I checked, the playoffs are no different rule-wise than the regular season, in that there are still 5 other players on the ice with the goalie during the game...If they had been able to score on the "scrubs," then we would've moved on. you can't shoulder the blame solely on Miller for the playoffs. When the opposing team's offense can waltz into the zone, firing point blank shots, undefended, unchecked, etc, the goalie isn't the only one to blame. You really need to look at the whole picture. I believe in one of these other stupid threads, someone posted Miller's Playoff stats and stats in elimination games where we may not have won, but the goal difference was low, meaning he gave us a chance, but our offense couldn't beat the scrubs. There are always two sides to a coin chief. You say Miller should've outplayed the scrubs, but in all honesty, the offense should've outplayed the scrubs, and our defense should've outplayed their o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 All of that is speculation and you are by far my least favorite poster on here (maybe tied with snomobiler97) Look at his playoff record overall not just the series it is pretty good. He has outplayed most of the "scrub goalies" he has played and nearly all of the teams we have lost to have ended up in the finals. You are sick of waiting on him to become an elite goalie???? He has this little trophy that says he was the best goalie over the course of a season. Plus an olympic MVP. THAT IS AN ELITE GOALIE. Has anyone got enrothe numbers cued up since miller has been gone??? I cant wait to see this. I'd like to counter this point you make on Enroth's numbers since Miller went down with the following: Has anyone got Miller's numbers cued up on must win, playoff clinching or Gold Medal clinching games where he should have stole a series or tournament for the team, as an ELITE GOALIE of course? I can't wait to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 no. not amazing. miller also had 2 shut-outs in that series, lest you forget. you want someone to blame for those playoff series? look at the rest of the team. they played like sh** in front of miller. the boston series was almost a foregone conclusion, and the philly series was a barn burner that we WOULD have won, had anyone other than just miller bothered to show up for game 7. that series was ours. we pussed out the first 2 periods of game 7. period. is miller as good as he was at the olympics? no. that's obvious. can he get back there? sure. maybe. should we trade him and go with enroth? a distinct possibility, but as others have mentioned, miller isn't going to fetch as much right now. but pinning the last 2 or 3 playoff losses on miller is just asinine. you want to blame someone? blame the same pussified team you watched lose to columbus 3 nights ago. this isn't new stuff; it's been going on since may 2007. Mrs. Roth is my nickname for Mrs Enroth.A goalie is as good as the d in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'd like to counter this point you make on Enroth's numbers since Miller went down with the following: Has anyone got Miller's numbers cued up on must win, playoff clinching or Gold Medal clinching games where he should have stole a series or tournament for the team, as an ELITE GOALIE of course? I can't wait to see this. http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/24/examining-ryan-millers-track-record-in-playoff-elimination-games/ Here is a quick link.... I am about to run the numbers but I hope you dont think this is going to look bad on miller. His numbers are really impressive in Olympic and playoff elimination games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/24/examining-ryan-millers-track-record-in-playoff-elimination-games/ Here is a quick link.... I am about to run the numbers but I hope you dont think this is going to look bad on miller. His numbers are really impressive in Olympic and playoff elimination games. especially given the fact that last year's game 7 versus Philly was the only high scoring blowout of sorts. He kept the Sabres in every elimination game he's played...the offense just couldn't get the ball rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hahahahah thats funny. This place is going to drive me mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 A quick look at the numbers and it looks like since miller went down enroth has a 4.19 GAA and a .897 SV Percentage..... That is not very good BTW How did you manage to come up with those numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/24/examining-ryan-millers-track-record-in-playoff-elimination-games/ Here is a quick link.... I am about to run the numbers but I hope you dont think this is going to look bad on miller. His numbers are really impressive in Olympic and playoff elimination games. No, not at all. I expect to see a 7 to 6 or maybe 5 ratio. But, it will go without saying, that in point of fact, since the depature of this teams most dynamic offensive players in recent history (namely Chris Drury and Daniel Breire) that Miller has not carried this team past a 1st round playoff appearance. So, as a fan, I can deduce that trading Miller in an effort to acheive that type of offensive prowess again, is the correct path to take given the last 7 seasons of history with the team. I believe this is a fair assesment. Would you offer a counter point, per say, as to why we would acheive success with Miller, knowing that he hasn't carried the team in game 6 with Boston or game 7 with Philly? I see no reason to see the outcome changing, it's the same group of players in essence, infront of Miller, or Enroth for that matter. Now, you trade Miller, and grab a player for the forward ranks, a center, then we can discuss the pros and cons when that player has acheived a record to compare Miller's years to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/24/examining-ryan-millers-track-record-in-playoff-elimination-games/ Here is a quick link.... I am about to run the numbers but I hope you dont think this is going to look bad on miller. His numbers are really impressive in Olympic and playoff elimination games. That article has already been presented in a different thread and does not include last years playoff loss. Add last years stats in and his "numbers" are not quite as good despite having 2 shutouts. So what else you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Here are millers stats in playoff elimination games GAA 2.23 SV% .913 And I couldnt find detailed stats for the olympics but I did find shots and saves so here is his save % .945 Also here is a list of all time playoff save % leaders http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/save_pct_career_p.html Now what other part of the enroth > Miller debate would you like me to s h i t on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 All of that is speculation and you are by far my least favorite poster on here (maybe tied with snomobiler97) Look at his playoff record overall not just the series it is pretty good. He has outplayed most of the "scrub goalies" he has played and nearly all of the teams we have lost to have ended up in the finals. You are sick of waiting on him to become an elite goalie???? He has this little trophy that says he was the best goalie over the course of a season. Plus an olympic MVP. THAT IS AN ELITE GOALIE. Has anyone got enrothe numbers cued up since miller has been gone??? I cant wait to see this. Besides that one year, what has he done the other 5 years since the lockout? Here, I'll help you out. This is a post I made on another thread. Since the lockout, here are Miller's ranks in GAA and Save %.... GAA: 05-06:#11 06-07:#20 07-08:#24 08-09:#18 09-10:#2 10-11:#21 Save %: 05-06:#9 06-07:#15 07-08:#29 08-09:#8 09-10:#2 10-11:#17 3 of a possible 12 he ranked in the top 10. He ranked outside of the top 20 more often than he ranked in the top 10. Take away the one Vezina year and he doesn't even have good stats much less "superstar" stats. When I hear the terms "Superstar" and "Best goalie in the world" from the media I wonder what the hell they're talking about. Had it not been for the Olympics he would be just another average goaltender. I like Miller, I think he is generally pretty consistent and more often than not, gives the team a chance to win most nights. But as soon as the team, the players, the media and Miller himself get over the fact that he's not as good as they think.......... this team might go somewhere. Stop treating him like the Golden Boy and treat him like every other goaltender gets treated when they don't live up to their expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 How did you manage to come up with those numbers? The GAA might be wrong but the save percentage is taking his shots against and saves so that is correct I averaged his GAA from the game stats for each game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Here are millers stats in playoff elimination games GAA 2.23 SV% .913 And I couldnt find detailed stats for the olympics but I did find shots and saves so here is his save % .945 Also here is a list of all time playoff save % leaders http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/save_pct_career_p.html Now what other part of the enroth > Miller debate would you like me to s h i t on? You can cuss all you'd like to, it does not change the historical outcome with Miller in must win games. Miller could not acheive success in the Boston series and did not do so in the Philly series and anything pointing to the contrary is just fodder for the cannon. Success would be moving on to round 2, he failed to carry his team, it really is that simple. You don't think we could acheive the same results with Enroth? I believe we could, but I also believe we should give the kid a shot at it, as stated, over and over and over again, like beating the dead horse we all know it to be, without Drury and Briere, Miller's numbers would most certainly be quite different come playoff stats. Once again, futility, keep pointing out it's definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Besides that one year, what has he done the other 5 years since the lockout? Here, I'll help you out. This is a post I made on another thread. This is by far the truth on Miller, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 You can cuss all you'd like to, it does not change the historical outcome with Miller in must win games. Miller could not acheive success in the Boston series and did not do so in the Philly series and anything pointing to the contrary is just fodder for the cannon. Success would be moving on to round 2, he failed to carry his team, it really is that simple. You don't think we could acheive the same results with Enroth? I believe we could, but I also believe we should give the kid a shot at it, as stated, over and over and over again, like beating the dead horse we all know it to be, without Drury and Briere, Miller's numbers would most certainly be quite different come playoff stats. Once again, futility, keep pointing out it's definition. That is STUPID. Obviously ahhaha take any goalie in the league and then take away the other two best players on his team and they are bad. This isnt about Drury and Briere... fill them in with our two best players now Vanek and Pominville. If they arent on this team it doesnt do ANYTHING you still have to score goals. Something that this team HAS NOT DONE in the playoffs the last two years. He did carry the team last year. He had two shutouts in that series and his team didnt show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'd like to counter this point you make on Enroth's numbers since Miller went down with the following: Has anyone got Miller's numbers cued up on must win, playoff clinching or Gold Medal clinching games where he should have stole a series or tournament for the team, as an ELITE GOALIE of course? I can't wait to see this. I'm more curious about how Miller plays on Fridays in January when the temperature is below 20 degrees,the sky is overcast and the moon is full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 You can cuss all you'd like to, it does not change the historical outcome with Miller in must win games. Miller could not acheive success in the Boston series and did not do so in the Philly series and anything pointing to the contrary is just fodder for the cannon. Success would be moving on to round 2, he failed to carry his team, it really is that simple. You don't think we could acheive the same results with Enroth? I believe we could, but I also believe we should give the kid a shot at it, as stated, over and over and over again, like beating the dead horse we all know it to be, without Drury and Briere, Miller's numbers would most certainly be quite different come playoff stats. Once again, futility, keep pointing out it's definition. The historical outcome in must win games for miller is 7-5 and if you include the olympics it goes to 9-6. Go out and find me 10 active goalies that have a winning record in elimination games..... I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'm more curious about how Miller plays on Fridays in January when the temperature is below 20 degrees,the sky is overcast and the moon is full. HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAH :thumbsup: :clapping: :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 This is by far the truth on Miller, hands down. The truth on Miller or Miller and his teams defense??????? This conversation is like listening to two automobile mechanics discuss dark matter or string theory. Come on guys. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: We are now pining GAA on one guy...Thats like giving Miller credit for GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 That is STUPID. Obviously ahhaha take any goalie in the league and then take away the other two best players on his team and they are bad. This isnt about Drury and Briere... fill them in with our two best players now Vanek and Pominville. If they arent on this team it doesnt do ANYTHING you still have to score goals. Something that this team HAS NOT DONE in the playoffs the last two years. He did carry the team last year. He had two shutouts in that series and his team didnt show up. He carried the team nowhere last year. They were bounced in the first series, game 7, you know, where Miller let in how many goals again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 He carried the team nowhere last year. They were bounced in the first series, game 7, you know, where Miller let in how many goals again? You do know that you have to play 6 pretty important games to get to that game 7, right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 The truth on Miller or Miller and his teams defense??????? This conversation is like listening to two automobile mechanics discuss dark matter or string theory. Come on guys. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: Ah, but I do blame the players around him as well. But then again, I am not advocating keeping a player because of past failures, I am advocating jettisoning a player in an effort to better the over all team. There in I believe lay the difference here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, all this debating aside, it sounds like there's nothing to this at all... here is my exchange with the writer: From: [jack@thesportsbuff.com] Sent: Sunday' date=' November 27, 2011 1:24 PM To: Matheson, Jim (Edm Journal) Subject: Ryan Miller trade? Jim, Just read your post from this morning and, being a Sabres fan, was particularly interested in what you had to say about Ryan Miller. You mention that you keep hearing that Miller "wouldn't mind being traded," but this is the first any of us in Buffalo have heard about it. Did Ryan say something? Was he quoted somewhere as being open to a trade? This would obviously make for huge news in Buffalo if he actually said something to that effect, so I was just wondering where you got the information and if there is any substance to it. Fans around here have certainly been a little frustrated with Miller's play this year, but a lot of it is being blown out of proportion because of the way Jhonas Enroth has played in relief. In my opinion, Miller is still the undisputed starting goalie when he's healthy-- but after the whole Lucic situation and several years of failure with the same core group of players, is it possible that Miller really wants out? Just wondering if you could shed some light on the situation for us.. one thing is for sure, any Sabres fans who read your article are going to be shocked! Thanks, Jack [/quote'] his wife lives in la. why would any sabres fans be surprised if he wanted to play there? nobody is married to any team for long Basically, sounds like he found out Miller's wife lives in LA and decided it would make for a good story with a lot views if he said Miller wanted to play out there. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 You do know that you have to play 6 pretty important games to get to that game 7, right??? Just another footnote series in Sabres history, nothing more......... By the way, I am not blaming Miller for either the Boston nor the Philly series, I am merely pointing out that for 6.25 million dollars, I expect him to carry a series or 2 in his career, it just isn't in the cards with him. Some point out the team around him, and yes, absolutely I agree with this. But then again, I'd move Miller in an effort to shore up those area's of the team where I feel they are alot short in the tooth, namely the 1A center position. Actually, if you stop counter pointing me for a second, and take a look at the offensive forechecking and aggressive transition game of the Sabres when Miller broke into the league, you'd realize that there is some substance in my view on the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, all this debating aside, it sounds like there's nothing to this at all... here is my exchange with the writer: Basically, sounds like he found out Miller's wife lives in LA and decided it would make for a good story with a lot views if he said Miller wanted to play out there. Lol. Or he didn't want to reveal what his sources were really telling him, or who those sources were? Did you tell him you were a fellow journalist, so it wouldn't be breaching any confidentiality to share it with you? I don't think much of the "story", but I think the writer's response to you does nothing to enhance or discredit the "story". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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