LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nothing like a good ole' theory on my part with few facts to back up my position as to why this "elite defense" is heavy on puck moving/mobility, and light on good solid defensive defensemen. 1. The Detroit Red Wing model(Holland/Babcock) of building a defense is based around defensemen that are mobile and good puck movers. Google this...you will find references to this model. 2. Lindy coached with Babcock at the 2010 Olympics and I am sure they had many conversations over the course of two weeks, and we already know the type of player Regier loves. 3. The Sabres defense is made up of 5 guys who are light on physical play and heavy on mobility/puck moving(Sekera, Myers, Gragnani, Leopold & Erhroff), and 2 guys who are defensive defensemen(Regehr & Weber). Of course, another factor is how good are you in terms of the skills you are supposedly bringing to the table. 4. The only problem with the Sabres trying to follow this model is that much of the Red Wing success over the last decade revolves around 3 NHL superstars(Zetterburg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom), and an always TREMENDOUS supporting cast. Maybe as the year goes on, this team gels, and they start playing out of character, but short of that, I'm struggling with figuring out how this blueline group will lead them to even one playoff series victory let alone a deep run into May(I won't even attempt to address the potential playoff shortcomings of the forwards as a group at this time). Flame away! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nothing like a good ole' theory on my part with few facts to back up my position as to why this "elite defense" is heavy on puck moving/mobility, and light on good solid defensive defensemen. 1. The Detroit Red Wing model(Holland/Babcock) of building a defense is based around defensemen that are mobile and good puck movers. Google this...you will find references to this model. 2. Lindy coached with Babcock at the 2010 Olympics and I am sure they had many conversations over the course of two weeks, and we already know the type of player Regier loves. 3. The Sabres defense is made up of 5 guys who are light on physical play and heavy on mobility/puck moving(Sekera, Myers, Gragnani, Leopold & Erhroff), and 2 guys who are defensive defensemen(Regehr & Weber). Of course, another factor is how good are you in terms of the skills you are supposedly bringing to the table. 4. The only problem with the Sabres trying to follow this model is that much of the Red Wing success over the last decade revolves around 3 NHL superstars(Zetterburg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom), and an always TREMENDOUS supporting cast. Maybe as the year goes on, this team gels, and they start playing out of character, but short of that, I'm struggling with figuring out how this blueline group will lead them to even one playoff series victory let alone a deep run into May(I won't even attempt to address the potential playoff shortcomings of the forwards as a group at this time). Flame away! :) I'm low on brain cells waiting to leave work early, so I don't think I can tackle a full on discussion response. But just so you know I fully support your notion that the team could use a few more Regher's and a few less Ehrhoffs. (that was what you were getting at right :thumbsup: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 In before the merge! /jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumbPuck Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 3. The Sabres defense is made up of 5 guys who are light on physical play and heavy on mobility/puck moving(Sekera, Myers, Gragnani, Leopold & Erhroff), and 2 guys who are defensive defensemen(Regehr & Weber). Of course, another factor is how good are you in terms of the skills you are supposedly bringing to the table. 4. The only problem with the Sabres trying to follow this model is that much of the Red Wing success over the last decade revolves around 3 NHL superstars(Zetterburg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom), and an always TREMENDOUS supporting cast. Flame away! :) I completely agree. I wouldn't be on the Weber bandwagon nearly as much as I am these days if our supposedly Offensive Defenseman had actually been producing solid offense. However, I don't consider every D-man point shot being blocked, deflected, and resulting in a 2-on-1 breakaway to be good solid offense. And that is all I have seen this year out of our offensive defenseman. The exception being Tyler Myers last night. I love the idea of an aggressive Defensive style... but I don't know if we have the skill to pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumbPuck Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 In before the merge! /jk DON'T TAZE ME, BRAWH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Speaking of D-men TJ Brennan just got recalled. Headed to Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 In before the merge! /jk You just worry about all those Enroth polls that cropped up while you were having a good time at the game(assuming that was possible based on the outcome). :nana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Speaking of D-men TJ Brennan just got recalled. Headed to Carolina. So... someone else is benched then. MAG still? Sekera? Anticipation of Myers getting suspended? PS: It is snowing :lol: which means snowboarding season approaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Regier is on record multiple times referencing how Detroit is the model franchise. Find me a Shanahan, Draper, McCarty, Knuble, LaPointe, Maltby and then we'll talk. That's when they were a chemistry laiden machine. The Babcok team won it once. The Burke model won it just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Good thread - was it really your position that we need more defensive D-men? Or that we need more talent in our top six and that we need to upgrade the talent on our 3rd and 4th lines? Regehr is not an offensive defensman, but he makes a great first pass, I would say that he has the best outlet pass of any of our D-men. I think this team is 3 or 4 pieces away from a legitimate cup contending team - A legit #1 center OR a legit power scoring top six wing a la Iginla. 1 or 2 nasty mean, mature wingers for our 4th line who are willing to work dirt cheap for the chance to get their name on the cup, and an upgrade to Leopold, who likely comes from within. Give me all of that and Las Vegas will like our odds. It's not exactly how Detroit has done it, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 This type of build goes back well before the 2010 olympics. Take a look at the 2005-2006 group: Campbell Numminen Tallinder Kalinin Lydman McKee Fitzpatrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Regier is on record multiple times referencing how Detroit is the model franchise. Find me a Shanahan, Draper, McCarty, Knuble, LaPointe, Maltby and then we'll talk. That's when they were a chemistry laiden machine. The Babcok team won it once. The Burke model won it just as well. The Burke model was 2 puck movers and 4 that are hard to play against. I'll have to look at rosters when I get home but off the top of my head I'd say defensive models closer to Detroit's win the whole thing more often than Anaheims's model, at least in the last decade anyway. I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh and Chicago's D was closer to what Detroit did. I'm not sure how I would characterize Boston's D last year. 3 and 3? Hmmm..... maybe Burke's model isn't greatly outnumbered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Good thread - was it really your position that we need more defensive D-men? ^^^ This. I'd be much happier if they had a 4-3 mix. With three solid pucking moving guys, and 3 defensive defensemen. The spare guy can be either. I just don't like the mix especially if one of the two guys being relied on as a defensive defensemen is sitting in the press box most games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Regier is on record multiple times referencing how Detroit is the model franchise. I didn't know that. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 .. and an upgrade to Leopold, who likely comes from within. What's with the Leopold hate? I feel he's actually been pretty good this season.. no silly turnovers, pinches responsibly and crashes the net, scoring some good goals, and has a 20% shooting average. By the way.. it'll definitely irk certain posters here.. but Sekera leads the Sabres d-men with the least giveaways.. just 4 in 18 games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 What's with the Leopold hate? I feel he's actually been pretty good this season.. no silly turnovers, pinches responsibly and crashes the net, scoring some good goals, and has a 20% shooting average. By the way.. it'll definitely irk certain posters here.. but Sekera leads the Sabres d-men with the least giveaways.. just 4 in 18 games! And I'm pretty sure every single one of those was in the Boston game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't expect the top 6 D right now to be the top 6 through April. For now, you pick up points, work towards the playoffs, and you build value in your players so that come February, you make moves for the playoff bulk and depth. Worrying that your team doesn't have the stuff for the Stanley Cup right now is a little too far-sighted in November, when you just need to keep picking up points. There are only about 4 teams in the league right now that have looked consistently good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james duncan Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nothing like a good ole' theory on my part with few facts to back up my position as to why this "elite defense" is heavy on puck moving/mobility, and light on good solid defensive defensemen. 1. The Detroit Red Wing model(Holland/Babcock) of building a defense is based around defensemen that are mobile and good puck movers. Google this...you will find references to this model. 2. Lindy coached with Babcock at the 2010 Olympics and I am sure they had many conversations over the course of two weeks, and we already know the type of player Regier loves. 3. The Sabres defense is made up of 5 guys who are light on physical play and heavy on mobility/puck moving(Sekera, Myers, Gragnani, Leopold & Erhroff), and 2 guys who are defensive defensemen(Regehr & Weber). Of course, another factor is how good are you in terms of the skills you are supposedly bringing to the table. 4. The only problem with the Sabres trying to follow this model is that much of the Red Wing success over the last decade revolves around 3 NHL superstars(Zetterburg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom), and an always TREMENDOUS supporting cast. Maybe as the year goes on, this team gels, and they start playing out of character, but short of that, I'm struggling with figuring out how this blueline group will lead them to even one playoff series victory let alone a deep run into May(I won't even attempt to address the potential playoff shortcomings of the forwards as a group at this time). Flame away! :) I agree with you. I guess my problem is that I'd go the exact opposite route. Build out from your all-world goalie and given him five to six great defensive defensemen and make it damn near impossible to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I'd sit MAG more and put Weber in more. 70/30% in Weber's favour. Maybe even Weber and Regehr on the same line as a shutdown line. EDIT: Confusing way of completely agreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBuffalo Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Too bad our deffense has shown not to be able to move the puck this year........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Too bad our deffense has shown not to be able to move the puck this year........... Which is why I put in my 1st post..."Of course, another factor is how good are you in terms of the skills you are supposedly bringing to the table". I didn't say they were good at it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd like to see Ruff change d-lineups depending on the strength or weakness of the opponent. If an opponent is big and likes to forecheck, you put in your physical guys. if they're susceptible to D-rush, then put in your defensive strikers. I know you go with who's going well, but it just seems Ruff's moves are all arbitrary and forced upon him in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd like to see Ruff change d-lineups depending on the strength or weakness of the opponent. If an opponent is big and likes to forecheck, you put in your physical guys. if they're susceptible to D-rush, then put in your defensive strikers. I know you go with who's going well, but it just seems Ruff's moves are all arbitrary and forced upon him in most cases. Well which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBuffalo Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I am very nervouse with the types of defenseman we have playing against Boston because the players who got injured are the only tough guys we have. Its going to be a rough one.......wait no it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Regier is on record multiple times referencing how Detroit is the model franchise. I didn't know that. :o I'm pretty sure that had as much to do with building from within (i.e., the draft) than anything else. Certainly, his philosophy on goaltenders is completely different than Detroit's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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