game discussion thread GDT: Devils at Sabres 11/16/11 7:30PM

[LGR4GM]

There is something about tonight. I'm okay with losing. Maybe it's_____________.

grit, control of the play, multiple scoring opportunities, alcohol or "sauce", luck of the NJ shooters, Tyler Myers' reemergence, death of the Enroth is God talk.

[darksabre]

There is something about tonight. I'm okay with losing. Maybe it's_____________.

 

Zoloft. Definitely Zoloft.

[deluca67]

Another less than inspiring home effort, their inability to handle the pressure of regular season home games is not a good sign.

 

My far the worst performance of Enroth's young career. Interested in how he comes back from this.

 

Tyler Myers gets benched partially for lack of aggression and comes back with only one hit. It was a solid hit, he needs to do it far more often.

 

The Sabres have to be able to do better than Leopold.

 

Three games and counting where the opposing team knock the Sabres goalie down with no response.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

 

Tyler Myers gets benched partially for lack of aggression and comes back with only one hit. It was a solid hit, he needs to do it far more often.

 

 

Some nice defensive plays, good puck handling and two goals, yeah all he had was the one hit.......... :rolleyes:

[SwampD]

 

 

Because you want to start him on Friday and u know the game is gone. :doh:

 

 

Way to put on a show for your fans (like I've heard them say so often). "We know you paid for sixty minutes, but we're only gonna give you 50."

 

I know it's been a while since they had a third period comeback.... Oh, wait. :doh:

[waldo]

Roy hurts the one Line, and the one pp unit in so many ways, but it seems Lindy likes all that useless flash.Replay the game Lindy and just watch ROY.Send him back to the Stafford line and the two pp unit. He is good on the PK and does a decent job.There is no doubt in my mind that Roy's career number would drop dramatically if he did not play with Vanek and POM. He is as non physical as any player on this team. A Ennis, Pom, Roy line would be great to watch. Having him and Myers on the ice at the same time is a death wish.

 

Myers ??? I just don't know what to say other than better but still third pair play...I surmise most people only noticed his two goals.(one of which was a real softy gift from Marty/the second dirty..which i loved) (how many of the NJ goals was he on the ice for? How many with ROY?)

The kid is way off his game and Lindy still throws him out there for 22 plus again.He is still out there for the pk and pp?.Amazing... Just ruin the kid Lindy i can maybe see the pk but what does he bring to the pp ???

 

The defense is brain dead.Weber was far from adequate.

 

Take Luke away from the one line and you really notice how young he is.

 

Not suprised they scored five. My expectations were never inflated. A week ago the Sabres were a one line team, now they have to rely on random acts of kindness from the D to score. Take Vanek off the ice and most of that goes away too .

[Derrico]

Roy hurts the one Line, and the one pp unit in so many ways, but it seems Lindy likes all that useless flash.Replay the game Lindy and just watch ROY.Send him back to the Stafford line and the two pp unit. He is good on the PK and does a decent job.There is no doubt in my mind that Roy's career number would drop dramatically if he did not play with Vanek and POM. He is as non physical as any player on this team. A Ennis, Pom, Roy line would be great to watch. Having him and Myers on the ice at the same time is a death wish.

 

Myers ??? I just don't know what to say other than better but still third pair play...I surmise most people only noticed his two goals. (how many of the NJ goals was he on the ice for? How many with ROY?)

The kid is way off his game and Lindy throws him out there for 22 plus Again..

 

The defense is brain dead.Weber was far from effective.

 

Take Luke away from the one line and you really notice how young he is.

 

Not suprised they scored five. My expectations were never inflated.

 

A week ago the Sabres were a one line team, now they have to rely on random acts of kindness from the D to score. Take Vanek off the ice and most of that goes away too.

 

I honestly thought that he was our best player last night. That has does not just have to do with his two goals (although that's obviously a contributing factor). His physical side came out a bit, played solid in his own end and I loved some of his outlet passes. He also seemed more dangerous in the offesive zone, and that's his strength, he has to stick with it.

[HopefulFuture]

Roy hurts the one Line, and the one pp unit in so many ways, but it seems Lindy likes all that useless flash.Replay the game Lindy and just watch ROY.Send him back to the Stafford line and the two pp unit. He is good on the PK and does a decent job.There is no doubt in my mind that Roy's career number would drop dramatically if he did not play with Vanek and POM. He is as non physical as any player on this team. A Ennis, Pom, Roy line would be great to watch. Having him and Myers on the ice at the same time is a death wish.

 

Myers ??? I just don't know what to say other than better but still third pair play...I surmise most people only noticed his two goals. (how many of the NJ goals was he on the ice for? How many with ROY?)

The kid is way off his game and Lindy throws him out there for 22 plus Again..

 

The defense is brain dead.Weber was far from adequate.

 

Take Luke away from the one line and you really notice how young he is.

 

Not suprised they scored five. My expectations were never inflated.

 

A week ago the Sabres were a one line team, now they have to rely on random acts of kindness from the D to score. Take Vanek off the ice and most of that goes away too.

Roy, no comment other than he needs to be on the second line, not the first in my opinion. He actually helps inflate the numbers of Leino and Stafford who have all but dissappeared in the early season.

 

Agree with Myers, since Tallinder's absence he has slowly gone downhill a bit, this season especially. This kid needs a solid stay at home d man as a partner.

 

Weber should be trade bait, and I agree, this defense they've put together is just horrible.

Sekera, Weber, Leopold and Gragnani should all be trade bait.

Ehrhoff needs a partner like Myers does, I'd keep him with Regher for now.

 

Luke Adam, what can you say. 3rd line center, put Boyes and Gerbe with him. Atleast Gerbe has the speed to backcheck and Boyes gets into position for a pass in the offensive zone, this kid is a slow skater, reminds me of Goose in a lot of ways.

 

Actually, I am surprised they scored 5. The shorthanded tally and the breakaway I expect Enroth to stop, the others, not so much.

 

In my final analysis of this team nearing the quarter mark of the season, lack of puck control and as Bucky's article correctly points out, lack of chemistry is very disturbing, very disturbing indeed.

 

A shake up is needed on this team, Pegula and Black are at the helm now, I fully expect some trades to take place in an effort to better the club. Gone are the Galisano days of sitting idle with status quo.

[waldo]

I honestly thought that he was our best player last night. That has does not just have to do with his two goals (although that's obviously a contributing factor). His physical side came out a bit, played solid in his own end and I loved some of his outlet passes. He also seemed more dangerous in the offesive zone, and that's his strength, he has to stick with it.

 

 

How may goals were scored when he was on the ice last night,????? where was he at the time on each, did he miss his coverage on any or over commit...how many odd man rushes came off of his side? d zone give aways...We have a slightly different view... but thats is ok. It makes it interesting..In summary , he played better,yes, way better,better offensively, more physical. but better than the last game he played was not a quantum leap foward... He played far too many minutes..and he does not belong on the one pp unit.he remains beffudled at times in his d zone and crumbles under heavy pressure(which NJ could not bring) Remember >>>This was NJ. Play him on the pk only...get his minutes down..Pair him properly..with and against the right lines when possible and he will grow..Keep going this way and i am worried.

[waldo]

Roy, no comment other than he needs to be on the second line, not the first in my opinion. He actually helps inflate the numbers of Leino and Stafford who have all but dissappeared in the early season.

 

Agree with Myers, since Tallinder's absence he has slowly gone downhill a bit, this season especially. This kid needs a solid stay at home d man as a partner.

 

Weber should be trade bait, and I agree, this defense they've put together is just horrible.

Sekera, Weber, Leopold and Gragnani should all be trade bait.

Ehrhoff needs a partner like Myers does, I'd keep him with Regher for now.

 

Luke Adam, what can you say. 3rd line center, put Boyes and Gerbe with him. Atleast Gerbe has the speed to backcheck and Boyes gets into position for a pass in the offensive zone, this kid is a slow skater, reminds me of Goose in a lot of ways.

 

Actually, I am surprised they scored 5. The shorthanded tally and the breakaway I expect Enroth to stop, the others, not so much.

 

In my final analysis of this team nearing the quarter mark of the season, lack of puck control and as Bucky's article correctly points out, lack of chemistry is very disturbing, very disturbing indeed.

 

A shake up is needed on this team, Pegula and Black are at the helm now, I fully expect some trades to take place in an effort to better the club. Gone are the Galisano days of sitting idle with status quo.

 

Most people did not realize how important his partner was or how many times Tallinder covered the kid...I am listening to the raves and saying yikes..Especially in physical games.

 

The kid is tired. shaky and looking for help, so you thow him out there for 22 plus with your worst defensive lines last night..for what

 

I expect a average goalie to stop a breakaway from an average nhl player 60%-70% of the time. That was not a good attempt on a very average shot. He would want that one back. I agree on the others. Open looks from the low slot and that stupid Weber screen goal are all high probabilty scoring chances and not his fault.I am still running that shorthanded goal through my mind,never seen three defenders piled up on one guy in their d zone while a second guy scores a shorthander on their goaltender

 

Agree on Sekera, Weber, Leopold and Gragnani all being trade bait .Although i could keep Sekera .I could also see letting Myers go in a package for the right top ten guy

[carpandean]

There is no doubt in my mind that Roy's career number would drop dramatically if he did not play with Vanek and POM.

Roy rarely plays with Pommer (PP aside.) Vanek, yes, but not Pommer. Lindy has tried the combination of the three a few times before, but never kept it together for very long (this one and a half game stretch is getting long compared to previous ones.) Stafford has been Roy's winger far more often, while Pommer has played more with Hecht and (when Healthy) Connolly. I wish there were a site that tracked who played with whom so that I could prove this with hard numbers.

[HopefulFuture]

Most people did not realize how important his partner was or how many times Tallinder covered the kid...I am listening to the raves and saying yikes..Especially in physical games.

 

The kid is tired. shaky and looking for help, so you thow him out there for 22 plus with your worst defensive lines last night..for what

 

I expect a average goalie to stop a breakaway from an average nhl player 60%-70% of the time. That was not a good attempt on a very average shot. He would want that one back. I agree on the others. Open looks from the low slot and that stupid Weber screen goal are all high probabilty scoring chances and not his fault.I am still running that shorthanded goal through my mind,never seen three defenders piled up on one guy in their d zone while a second guy scores a shorthander on their goaltender

 

Agree on Sekera, Weber, Leopold and Gragnani all being trade bait .Although i could keep Sekera .I could also see letting Myers go in a package for the right top ten guy

Yea, for as much as even I bitched about Tallinder, it was a mistake to let him go in my opinion.

 

Edit: forgot, I think your absolutely spot on about that shorty. Pommers was 3rd man in and he just coasted to the man with the puck.

No one was there to cover any ice what so ever, very telling actually on just how bad the defensive game of this team is.

Sad actually too, since most posters I have seen over a couple of seasons on here were saying Ruff has too much of a defensive game plan.

I did chuckle on that once I realized, late last season, just how open Ruff runs his game.

[waldo]

Roy rarely plays with Pommer (PP aside.) Vanek, yes, but not Pommer. Lindy has tried the combination of the three a few times before, but never kept it together for very long (this one and a half game stretch is getting long compared to previous ones.) Stafford has been Roy's winger far more often, while Pommer has played more with Hecht and (when Healthy) Connolly. I wish there were a site that tracked who played with whom so that I could prove this with hard numbers.

 

You do not have to prove it because you are generally correct. I mispoke. I am so used to saying Vanek and POM together. When Roy is there Lindy needs a more physcial winger for that mix that is whay Pom disappears.When pom goes so too goes some chemistry.. The point was without Vanek, for so many reasons, Roys numbers drop. BUT that is probably true of anyone who plays with Vanek. He draws coverage/attention/often doubles and thus opens space for other guys in the o zone, then add the vision, hockey sense, unselfishness and passing skills. You just get better with a guy like that.The shame here is Vanek has spent three years without a true play making one center..Prime years. I want to see what his numbers would look like with one before he retires.

[HopefulFuture]

ou do not have to prove it because you are generally correct. I mispoke. I am so used to saying Vanek and POM together. When Roy is there Lindy need a more physcial winger for that mix that is whay Pom disappears. The point was without Vanek, for so many reasons, Roys numbers drop. BUT that is probably true of anyone who plays with Vanek. He draws coverage/attention/often doubles and thus opens space for other guys in the o zone, then add the vision, hockey sense, unselfishness and passing skills. You just get better with a guy like that.

I often wonder how Vanek would look with a guy like Eric Staal centering him. I know it will not happen, but I find myself curious as to what his potential could be with the correct linemates. He is a very good, all around player.

[bunomatic]

Yea, for as much as even I bitched about Tallinder, it was a mistake to let him go in my opinion.

 

Edit: forgot, I think your absolutely spot on about that shorty. Pommers was 3rd man in and he just coasted to the man with the puck.

No one was there to cover any ice what so ever, very telling actually on just how bad the defensive game of this team is.

Sad actually too, since most posters I have seen over a couple of seasons on here were saying Ruff has too much of a defensive game plan.

I did chuckle on that once I realized, late last season, just how open Ruff runs his game.

I agree. We haven't replaced what he brought to this team.

[Doohickie]

A lot of gloom and doom but in the end it was just a November loss. Move on.

 

 

 

I think ultimately, Lindy is dealing with a lot of new pieces in the puzzle. He's still working on putting it together. Putting Leino in at center in March would be bad, but trying it out once in a while in the early season? Why not? Everyone is all over Roy today, but last game he was acclaimed on this forum as the first star. What a bunch of sourpusses.

 

I think Lindy tried too many things tonight. I think the team was not ready for the new look Devils. I think Enroth is human after all. I think the Sabres have a mental block about playing at home. I think all the problems will be corrected as the season rolls on.

[waldo]

A lot of gloom and doom but in the end it was just a November loss. Move on.

 

 

 

I think ultimately, Lindy is dealing with a lot of new pieces in the puzzle. He's still working on putting it together. Putting Leino in at center in March would be bad, but trying it out once in a while in the early season? Why not? Everyone is all over Roy today, but last game he was acclaimed on this forum as the first star. What a bunch of sourpusses.

 

I think Lindy tried too many things tonight. I think the team was not ready for the new look Devils. I think Enroth is human after all. I think the Sabres have a mental block about playing at home. I think all the problems will be corrected as the season rolls on.

 

 

I have never acclaimed Roy with Vanek..just the opposite. Roy is a wonderfull, shoot first, selfish, player who needs his own rebound,fetch and retrieve line. I do not mean this as a hit on him. Players like Roy are important but for a finesse guys like Vanek and Pom poison.

 

No gloom here. You just cannot compete gainst physical teams like Philly, Boston etc with Myers, Sekera, Leopold ,Gragnani and Weber especailly when they are on the ice with your be small and play small forwards. etc.

[Samson's Flow]

The odd man rushes are this team's biggest problem right now. How do we fix that?

I'm just going to ignore the "end of the world" trolls in the previous 15 pages and respond to this from d4rk.

 

Not only the odd man rushes but the defensive aggressiveness as a whole. IMO the team is trying to put everything together too quickly with LR system of high defense and pinching in the offensive zone. This is causing some ugly odd man rushes where one or both d-men are trapped deep in the opponents zone which leads to a forward or nobody back to defend the opponent's rush.

 

I think right now, they need to tone done the pinching and offensive game for the defense and focus on playing solid defense. I can definitely see the talent we have on the blueline, but right now it seems like we are playing 5 forwards out there. IIRC last year there was a stretch midway through the season where the team backed off of the D-pinching and focused on playing solid team defense. That was the catalyst to the strong run we had at the end of the year.

 

The team needs to learn how to play solid defense as a team and then slowly integrate more aggressive defensemen play on the rush. Right now we are doing it backwards and it shows.

[LGR4GM]

The post game reaction to this game was shockingly dark. It seems a number of people are ready to trade Roy, Weber, Sekera, MAG, and Leo... Myers name was brought up too. I guess it is my biased or something but I thought that last nights game was far better than the montreal game. The sabres were more aggressive and the reason they lost was Enroth was off and Brodeur was on. Maybe in some ways this loss was hard to take. The only thing that continues to stand out for me is the inability of a sabres player to take a one timer. It is always 2-4 touches before a shot. For the love of god on the PP just rip it. I saw more from that team last night than I did in the Montreal or Boston game so I actually have no desire right now to explode the roster...

 

(side note: Stastny would be a player that could help this team, just saying and thats all)

[bunomatic]

I'm just going to ignore the "end of the world" trolls in the previous 15 pages and respond to this from d4rk.

 

Not only the odd man rushes but the defensive aggressiveness as a whole. IMO the team is trying to put everything together too quickly with LR system of high defense and pinching in the offensive zone. This is causing some ugly odd man rushes where one or both d-men are trapped deep in the opponents zone which leads to a forward or nobody back to defend the opponent's rush.

 

I think right now, they need to tone done the pinching and offensive game for the defense and focus on playing solid defense. I can definitely see the talent we have on the blueline, but right now it seems like we are playing 5 forwards out there. IIRC last year there was a stretch midway through the season where the team backed off of the D-pinching and focused on playing solid team defense. That was the catalyst to the strong run we had at the end of the year.

 

The team needs to learn how to play solid defense as a team and then slowly integrate more aggressive defensemen play on the rush. Right now we are doing it backwards and it shows.

Agreed. Telling everyone on D that they have the green light to go is bad policy. 1 or 2 should have the green light if they are paired with a classic stay at home d man. They also need to communicate better. I'm tired of seeing both d men go to the same side of the ice leaving a man out in the high slot to break in alone.

[spndnchz]

Roy rarely plays with Pommer (PP aside.) Vanek, yes, but not Pommer. Lindy has tried the combination of the three a few times before, but never kept it together for very long (this one and a half game stretch is getting long compared to previous ones.) Stafford has been Roy's winger far more often, while Pommer has played more with Hecht and (when Healthy) Connolly. I wish there were a site that tracked who played with whom so that I could prove this with hard numbers.

ard 1Forward 2Forward 3Frequency

 

This doesn't copy/paste well, but it's all of last season... a bit off of the usual with Roy being out part of the season

 

THOMAS VANEK TIM CONNOLLY JASON POMINVILLE 6.79%

THOMAS VANEK JOCHEN HECHT JASON POMINVILLE 4.3%

MICHAEL GRIER CODY MCCORMICK ROB NIEDERMAYER 4.13%

PATRICK KALETA PAUL GAUSTAD NATHAN GERBE 3.89%

MICHAEL GRIER ROB NIEDERMAYER PAUL GAUSTAD 3.84%

BRAD BOYES TYLER ENNIS DREW STAFFORD 3.23%

THOMAS VANEK DEREK ROY TYLER ENNIS 3.14%

MARK MANCARI PAUL GAUSTAD NATHAN GERBE 3.08%

THOMAS VANEKDEREK ROYDREW STAFFORD3.02%

[Samson's Flow]

Roy hurts the one Line, and the one pp unit in so many ways, but it seems Lindy likes all that useless flash.Replay the game Lindy and just watch ROY.Send him back to the Stafford line and the two pp unit. He is good on the PK and does a decent job.There is no doubt in my mind that Roy's career number would drop dramatically if he did not play with Vanek and POM. He is as non physical as any player on this team. A Ennis, Pom, Roy line would be great to watch. Having him and Myers on the ice at the same time is a death wish.

 

 

I agree that Roy should be put as far away as possible from Vanek. We have known from that pairing all last season that their games just do not mesh well together. Unfortunately who would you rather have as the #1 center? This is exactly why everyone was clamoring for a Brad Richards in the offseason. With a true #1, Roy is slotted where he should be and everything falls into place.

 

With the failure of the Leino-at-center experiment (so far), we are stuck with the same basic team fallacy, in that Vanek and Pommers are searching for a capable, pass first, top line center. The lines are a mess right now and it is back to pick-up game style hockey with no chemistry on a consistent basis.

[Samson's Flow]

Agreed. Telling everyone on D that they have the green light to go is bad policy. 1 or 2 should have the green light if they are paired with a classic stay at home d man. They also need to communicate better. I'm tired of seeing both d men go to the same side of the ice leaving a man out in the high slot to break in alone.

Exactly. Which is why a lot of the posters are lamenting the loss of Tallinder. He was the defensively responsible stay at home guy that allowed Myers to go up ice with confidence.

 

Right now, it looks like everyone has the green light to go. There was one play last night where both Leopold AND Ehrhoff were below the faceoff dots and it resulted in a clean breakaway for NJ beginning at their blueline. Fix the defensive responsibility first and have consistent pairings and the rest will come.

[waldo]

I agree that Roy should be put as far away as possible from Vanek. We have known from that pairing all last season that their games just do not mesh well together. Unfortunately who would you rather have as the #1 center? This is exactly why everyone was clamoring for a Brad Richards in the offseason. With a true #1, Roy is slotted where he should be and everything falls into place.

 

With the failure of the Leino-at-center experiment (so far), we are stuck with the same basic team fallacy, in that Vanek and Pommers are searching for a capable, pass first, top line center. The lines are a mess right now and it is back to pick-up game style hockey with no chemistry on a consistent basis.

 

 

:D on the money..post..we still have not seen leino.. but with him you would probably have to replace pom with a more physical winger which costs chemistry..but i would like to see that.. Maybe Boyes. he and Vanek have similar insticts.. Boyes will score with Vanek

[Samson's Flow]

:D on the money..post..we still have not seen leino.. but with him you would probably have to replace pom with boyes

That's okay. I'm a Boyes fanboy (if you couldn't guess). He has a nice shot and can control along the boards nicely. He is one player that I think has been vastly underutilized. IMO he has shown sparks at time but has been inconsistent. I attribute that inconsistency to having different linemates on a nightly basis (usually of the Ellis/McC ilk)