Don't forget to vote!

[PASabreFan]

I agree that this election was much more a repudiation of the current administration than it was a vote for the Republicans.

 

What a lovely sentiment regarding Boehner. Do you think he wishes the same on those who disagree with his political views?

 

As for cutting spending, Boehner and the rest of the Republicans have been pretty clear that the top priority is repeal of Obamacare.

 

I'm no political scholar, but I don't see how "Obamacare" gets repealed. The Republicans don't have the votes.

 

Instead of recriminations, they better get to work on their promises of cutting spending (and taxes, neat trick) and creating jobs.

[Patty16]

Welfare is only a small piece of the puzzle - don't forget about SSI, SSD, worker's comp and unemployment. Oh, and there is also Heap and Wic, and food stamps and medicaid and medicare and anyone of a dozen other Gov't programs. Lets not forget about all the semi private aid organizations (including ACORN) funded by taxpayer dollars. The use and abuse of these alternatives to working for a living only continues to grow. And don't forget about the voluntarily marginally employed who live and work under the table, contributing nothing, but usually receiving one of the above benefits.

 

Your statistics on welfare are national; what do they look like for the great state of NY? And don't give me your percentage decrease over the last 10 years during one of the greatest periods of growth with almost no inflation - what is it dollar for dollar over that time frame?

 

Statistics are not information. And where exactly are you getting your statistics? Look around, and don't ignore what your eyes see. How many baby mamas are hanging on porches all day while there kids get free breakfast and lunch any day they actually bother to show up for school. Our tax dollars have funded a generation that doesn't care to work, and doesn't have to. Our government wastes more money than most other countries have. I'm getting tired of pulling on this wagon all by myself

 

 

It was the welfare reform act in 96 that really helped decrease enrollment. it had been decreasing on its own prior to that.

 

Stats are information, im sorry you believe otherwise.

 

If welfare is such a great thing and you hate pulling the wagon, i suggest you stop with the racial undertones, quit your job and try living on it and see how great it is.

Or you could move to another country where you tax rate is even higher yet you still have to support the same programs you despise.

 

perhaps we could look at Denmark, they enjoy more personal wealth than you do and pay higher taxes. min income tax is 42% and they enjoy 2.7% unemployment.

 

Almost all of the countries with more personal wealth have drastically higher personal taxes and taxes on other items.

 

A country can be successful with a high tax rate. The US was for over 50 years. chase another boogeyman if you must.

[korab rules]

It was the welfare reform act in 96 that really helped decrease enrollment. it had been decreasing on its own prior to that.

 

Stats are information, im sorry you believe otherwise.

 

If welfare is such a great thing and you hate pulling the wagon, i suggest you stop with the racial undertones, quit your job and try living on it and see how great it is.

Or you could move to another country where you tax rate is even higher yet you still have to support the same programs you despise.

 

perhaps we could look at Denmark, they enjoy more personal wealth than you do and pay higher taxes. min income tax is 42% and they enjoy 2.7% unemployment.

 

Almost all of the countries with more personal wealth have drastically higher personal taxes and taxes on other items.

 

A country can be successful with a high tax rate. The US was for over 50 years. chase another boogeyman if you must.

 

Racial accusations and gross generalizations. Nice retort.

 

:wallbash:

 

And "baby mama" does not reference or apply to any particular race. Jeeze, don't you guys watch Springer?

[nfreeman]

I'm no political scholar, but I don't see how "Obamacare" gets repealed. The Republicans don't have the votes.

 

Instead of recriminations, they better get to work on their promises of cutting spending (and taxes, neat trick) and creating jobs.

You are correct that the Republicans don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare. I mentioned it in response to your assertion that they haven't identified any spending cuts, since that one is by far the biggest.

 

Also, repealing Obamacare is far from a "recrimination." It's a fundamental part of the limited government approach.

 

As for cutting taxes being a "neat trick," I'm not sure what you mean. Is it that they don't have the votes to do this either? You are correct about that, although I think many Democrats will vote to cut taxes at this point. Or is it that cutting spending is incompatible with cutting taxes? Not sure why that would be the case.

[spndnchz]

I've got sooooo much to say here, but politicians never listen.

[SwampD]

Jeeze, don't you guys watch Springer?

no

[Patty16]

Racial accusations and gross generalizations. Nice retort.

 

 

 

And "baby mama" does not reference or apply to any particular race. Jeeze, don't you guys watch Springer?

 

 

i was far from general. Its just easy to show that taxes and social programs arent the sole problem and its possible to be a wealthy nation with both.

 

You are correct that the Republicans don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare. I mentioned it in response to your assertion that they haven't identified any spending cuts, since that one is by far the biggest.

 

Also, repealing Obamacare is far from a "recrimination." It's a fundamental part of the limited government approach.

 

As for cutting taxes being a "neat trick," I'm not sure what you mean. Is it that they don't have the votes to do this either? You are correct about that, although I think many Democrats will vote to cut taxes at this point. Or is it that cutting spending is incompatible with cutting taxes? Not sure why that would be the case.

 

The problem is the last round of cuts jacked up the deficit by something like 30%. so if you are trying to balance the budget you almost need to raise taxes, unless someone can explain to me a politically feasible way to reduce trillions in spending. Cut military? medical? social programs? infrastructure?

 

Im troubled because no one has said how they will cut spending, prob bc if you mentioned what programs less people would vote for you.

[korab rules]

i was far from general. Its just easy to show that taxes and social programs arent the sole problem and its possible to be a wealthy nation with both.

 

Of course it is, you play Robin Hood! But redistribution of wealth isn't what this country was founded on. What ever happened to self determination?

 

 

 

(1)The problem is the last round of cuts jacked up the deficit by something like 30%. (2)so if you are trying to balance the budget you almost need to raise taxes, unless someone can explain to me a politically feasible way to reduce trillions in spending. (3)Cut military? medical? social programs? infrastructure?

 

(4)Im troubled because no one has said how they will cut spending, prob bc if you mentioned what programs less people would vote for you.

 

1. Trillions of dollars in war expenses and un-stimulating stimulus payments didn't have anything to do with the deficit increase?

 

2. We don't need to reduce trillions in spending to balance the budget, its just less than 1.2 trillion for this fiscal year (at least that's what they told us it would be). Balancing the budget can occur by a combination of spending cuts and increased earning yielding greater taxes paid without increasing tax rates. Reducing the deficit, on the other hand...

 

3. No, but it will decrease drastically when our overseas wars end. Yes. Yes. a little.

 

4. This is true. Making a fundamental change is painful in the short term, but necessary. Otherwise, we had better all learn to speak chinese.

[korab rules]

no

 

Talk Soup?

[Patty16]

Of course it is, you play Robin Hood! But redistribution of wealth isn't what this country was founded on. What ever happened to self determination?

 

 

 

 

 

1. Trillions of dollars in war expenses and un-stimulating stimulus payments didn't have anything to do with the deficit increase?

 

2. We don't need to reduce trillions in spending to balance the budget, its about 1.5 trillion for this fiscal year. Balancing the budget can occur by a combination of spending cuts and increased earning yielding greater taxes paid without increasing tax rates. Reducing the deficit, on the other hand...

 

3. No, but it will decrease drastically when our overseas wars end. Yes. Yes. a little.

 

4. This is true. Making a fundamental change is painful in the short term, but necessary. Otherwise, we had better all learn to speak chinese.

 

 

1-4 i agree. Unfunded wars dont bode well for budgets now do they. the stimulus didn't stimulate but it did slow and/or stop the bleeding.

 

This country has always had taxes, remember it wasnt taxes that caused the rebellion it was the lack of representation.

Even if you took away the rovian "redistribution", what would all those people do? they'd be roaming around causing trouble.

[MattPie]

Of course it is, you play Robin Hood! But redistribution of wealth isn't what this country was founded on. What ever happened to self determination?

 

You're still free to do whatever you want in this country. Taxes don't affect that. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

1. Trillions of dollars in war expenses and un-stimulating stimulus payments didn't have anything to do with the deficit increase?

 

Um, and whose fault is that war? We had a nice winnable war going on in Afghanistan, then we invaded Iraq, drawing troops from Afghanistan. Oops, now both are in pretty tough shape. Someone has to try to clean up the mess.

 

2. We don't need to reduce trillions in spending to balance the budget, its just less than 1.2 trillion for this fiscal year (at least that's what they told us it would be). Balancing the budget can occur by a combination of spending cuts and increased earning yielding greater taxes paid without increasing tax rates. Reducing the deficit, on the other hand...

 

This is a cyclical recession. The house market screwed us by essentially creating money that built an unsustainable economy. When that crashed (just like the dot-com bubble) everything went to hell. You can blame whomever you're biased to hate, that's OK. Many econimists are seeing indicators that things are getting better; that we're at or just past the bottom of the dip. Bad timing though for Democrats, I'm sure the republicans will be crowing about how they fixed everything when the natural swing works its way back up.

 

I liked Colbert's quote last night (paraphrased): "Those 30 million people that just got healthcare are just going to have to understand it's going away because guys like me need a tax cut."

[Patty16]

You're still free to do whatever you want in this country. Taxes don't affect that. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

 

 

Um, and whose fault is that war? We had a nice winnable war going on in Afghanistan, then we invaded Iraq, drawing troops from Afghanistan. Oops, now both are in pretty tough shape. Someone has to try to clean up the mess.

 

 

 

This is a cyclical recession. The house market screwed us by essentially creating money that built an unsustainable economy. When that crashed (just like the dot-com bubble) everything went to hell. You can blame whomever you're biased to hate, that's OK. Many econimists are seeing indicators that things are getting better; that we're at or just past the bottom of the dip. Bad timing though for Democrats, I'm sure the republicans will be crowing about how they fixed everything when the natural swing works its way back up.

 

I liked Colbert's quote last night (paraphrased): "Those 30 million people that just got healthcare are just going to have to understand it's going away because guys like me need a tax cut."

 

Sums up a lot of things quite nicely.

[korab rules]

1-4 i agree. Unfunded wars dont bode well for budgets now do they. (1)the stimulus didn't stimulate but it did slow and/or stop the bleeding.

 

This country has always had taxes, remember it wasnt taxes that caused the rebellion it was the lack of representation.

Even if you took away the (2)rovian "redistribution", (3)what would all those people do? they'd be roaming around causing trouble.

 

1. It certainly didn't stop the bleeding. We were promised it would hold unemployment figures at 8%. It has been at 9.8-10.3% ever since. I see no evidence that it did anything.

 

2. I don't need some washed up political adviser to tell me what to think, especially when its plain to see with the naked eye. They took tax dollars paid by approximately 53% of the people and gave it roughly 90% of the people, excluding the 10% of people who paid the vast majority of that money in taxes. Sounds like redistribution to me.

 

3. I don't know, maybe put down the crackpipe/methpipe/rolled up hundred dollar bill/bong/huka/needle and find someway to support themselves? Do the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing? Do what our fathers and forefathers did for generations: whatever it took to take care of your family? That's a novel concept!

 

Somewhere along the way, the grand idea of a brief hand up became a lifetime handout. Don't believe it? Do some work with your local department of social services, spend some time in family court, become a CASA worker. Get a real life first hand view of what happens on the side of town you don't like to drive through.

[nfreeman]

The problem is the last round of cuts jacked up the deficit by something like 30%. so if you are trying to balance the budget you almost need to raise taxes, unless someone can explain to me a politically feasible way to reduce trillions in spending. Cut military? medical? social programs? infrastructure?

 

Im troubled because no one has said how they will cut spending, prob bc if you mentioned what programs less people would vote for you.

No. Income (corporate and personal) federal tax revenues increased by 40% in the period between 2004 and 2007 substantially due to the 2003 tax cuts, because the cuts stimulated the economy. I don't agree with everything Korab has said in this thread, but he's right that the Bush-era deficit increases (already dwarfed by the Obama-era increases, btw) resulted from drunken sailor spending binges, not from tax cuts.

 

1-4 i agree. Unfunded wars dont bode well for budgets now do they. the stimulus didn't stimulate but it did slow and/or stop the bleeding.

The stimulus didn't do a GD thing other than line the pockets of Democratic supporters. "Jobs saved or created," my butt.

[korab rules]

(1)You're still free to do whatever you want in this country. Taxes don't affect that. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

 

 

 

(2)Um, and whose fault is that war? We had a nice winnable war going on in Afghanistan, then we invaded Iraq, drawing troops from Afghanistan. Oops, now both are in pretty tough shape. Someone has to try to clean up the mess.

 

 

 

(3)This is a cyclical recession. The house market screwed us by essentially creating money that built an unsustainable economy. When that crashed (just like the dot-com bubble) everything went to hell. You can blame whomever you're biased to hate, that's OK. Many econimists are seeing indicators that things are getting better; that we're at or just past the bottom of the dip. Bad timing though for Democrats, I'm sure the republicans will be crowing about how they fixed everything when the natural swing works its way back up.

 

(4)I liked Colbert's quote last night (paraphrased): "Those 30 million people that just got healthcare are just going to have to understand it's going away because guys like me need a tax cut."

 

1. I'm talking about self determination for the people who receive tax payer money for doing nothing.

 

2. We are having a pleasant discussion socio economics. Please don't muddy the water by dragging politics into the mix. But if you must know, aww, forget it. Not going there.

 

3. Cyclical? maybe, but you don't think the fall out from the housing bubble was significantly exacerbated by social programs that forced banks to give mortgages to people who didn't qualify for them? I will cee your economist and show you just as many who say the opposite. Businesses have cash in hand. They are waiting for a more favorable business climate to spend it.

 

4. Colbert is a comedian, not a news man, reporter, or political pundit. He doesn't make the news, he makes fun of the news.

 

Have you gotten your notice from your health insurer about your premiums for next year? Mine are going up 15% again. So much for costs containment. If anything, its accelerating.

[Patty16]

1. It certainly didn't stop the bleeding. We were promised it would hold unemployment figures at 8%. It has been at 9.8-10.3% ever since. I see no evidence that it did anything.

 

2. I don't need some washed up political adviser to tell me what to think, especially when its plain to see with the naked eye. They took tax dollars paid by approximately 53% of the people and gave it roughly 90% of the people, excluding the 10% of people who paid the vast majority of that money in taxes. Sounds like redistribution to me.

 

3. I don't know, maybe put down the crackpipe/methpipe/rolled up hundred dollar bill/bong/huka/needle and find someway to support themselves? Do the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing? Do what our fathers and forefathers did for generations: whatever it took to take care of your family? That's a novel concept!

 

Somewhere along the way, the grand idea of a brief hand up became a lifetime handout. Don't believe it? Do some work with your local department of social services, spend some time in family court, become a CASA worker. Get a real life first hand view of what happens on the side of town you don't like to drive through.

 

 

Ive worked in family court,and ive worked with all kinds of people from the other side of the tracsk. i know what you are talking about.

 

The every man for himself routine doesnt work, itll make us a third world country. People who rely on govt assistance will need income from somewhere else and its not coming from taking illegals jobs.

Remember all those huge corps we gave tax cuts to, who arent hiring but making record profits.....well they arent gonna hire them either. So where do you think theyll turn?? a crime free life?

 

The illegals do jobs that pay peanuts, which makes products cheaper for us. robbing peter to pay paul is what that is. Enjoy your produce and clothing at their current prices kiss goodbye to that.

 

you might not see evidence that the stimulus stopped the bleeding, but those who do look at it, economists, say that it did. Thats not to say it was a great thing, but to say it did nothing is misunderstanding the economics of the situation.

 

As to redistribution, should govt medical programs be cut bc they are redistribution? what about veterans who served ? redistribution?

[SwampD]

Ive worked in family court,and ive worked with all kinds of people from the other side of the tracsk. i know what you are talking about.

 

The every man for himself routine doesnt work, itll make us a third world country. People who rely on govt assistance will need income from somewhere else and its not coming from taking illegals jobs.

Remember all those huge corps we gave tax cuts to, who arent hiring but making record profits.....well they arent gonna hire them either. So where do you think theyll turn?? a crime free life?

 

The illegals do jobs that pay peanuts, which makes products cheaper for us. robbing peter to pay paul is what that is. Enjoy your produce and clothing at their current prices kiss goodbye to that.

 

you might not see evidence that the stimulus stopped the bleeding, but those who do look at it, economists, say that it did. Thats not to say it was a great thing, but to say it did nothing is misunderstanding the economics of the situation.

 

As to redistribution, should govt medical programs be cut bc they are redistribution? what about veterans who served ? redistribution?

We actually made money on the bank bailout.

 

I would say that the fat-cat sitting on his ranch in Texas, the 10,000 acre ranch he bought making billions on sub prime mortgages, did WAY more damage to this country than the guy who mows my lawn off the books.

[Patty16]

We actually made money on the bank bailout.

 

I would say that the fat-cat sitting on his ranch in Texas, the 10,000 acre ranch he bought making billions on sub prime mortgages, did WAY more damage to this country than the guy who mows my lawn off the books.

 

"""but dey took er jobs!!""" to quote south park

[TheChimp]

Personally, I'd love to see the Dems sit back and allow the Teabaggers to do what they've wanted to do forever, unburden the rich entirely from taxation, shut down all public schools, cut off Medicare, dismantle the arts and sciences, reverse Roe V. Wade, illegalize homosexuality, wall up the borders, offer incentives for companies to outsource ALL their jobs, force people pay the Police and Firemen with American Express to answer emergency calls, and watch the bridges and roads and buildings fall down from lack of funding.

 

I wanna see how long we'd go before Washington, DC burned to the ground.

[korab rules]

We actually made money on the bank bailout.

 

I would say that the fat-cat sitting on his ranch in Texas, the 10,000 acre ranch he bought making billions on sub prime mortgages, did WAY more damage to this country than the guy who mows my lawn off the books.

 

No, we made money on the loans to banks to keep them afloat. The damage to our economy and everyone's pocketbook continues, and has to be in the trillions by now.

 

Since when is Bush a Billionaire?

 

You proudly pay your lawn guy under the table. Awesome. :death:

[Patty16]

No, we made money on the loans to banks to keep them afloat. The damage to our economy and everyone's pocketbook continues, and has to be in the trillions by now.

 

Since when is Bush a Billionaire?

 

You proudly pay your lawn guy under the table. Awesome. :death:

 

and if there was no bailout and GM folded creating thousands of unemployed people? the damage isnt caused BY the bailout, the damage was already there, the bailout was a band aid. lets deregulate, run up the deficit, cut taxes for fat cats, increase spending and wonder why the economy tanked? sounds like the early 80s all over again.

[korab rules]

and if there was no bailout and GM folded creating thousands of unemployed people? the damage isnt caused BY the bailout, the damage was already there, the bailout was a band aid. lets deregulate, run up the deficit, cut taxes for fat cats, increase spending and wonder why the economy tanked? sounds like the early 80s all over again.

 

The bolded is part is what I meant. I will chalk up the rest of it to you misunderstanding what I meant.

[korab rules]

Personally, I'd love to see the Dems sit back and allow the Teabaggers to do what they've wanted to do forever, unburden the rich entirely from taxation, shut down all public schools, cut off Medicare, dismantle the arts and sciences, reverse Roe V. Wade, illegalize homosexuality, wall up the borders, offer incentives for companies to outsource ALL their jobs, force people pay the Police and Firemen with American Express to answer emergency calls, and watch the bridges and roads and buildings fall down from lack of funding.

 

I wanna see how long we'd go before Washington, DC burned to the ground.

 

Tea baggers? Original! I love how its acceptable for the left to use a sexual pejorative to describe a political/grass roots movement.

 

I also find it funny that you describe the aims of a movement that has existed for only, what, two years, as "what they have wanted to do FOREVER".

 

I don't profess to know much about the tea party platform, but I know enough to confidently say that not a single thing you mention is on their platform.

 

Nice Post :thumbsup:

[biodork]

No, we made money on the loans to banks to keep them afloat. The damage to our economy and everyone's pocketbook continues, and has to be in the trillions by now.

 

Since when is Bush a Billionaire?

 

You proudly pay your lawn guy under the table. Awesome. :death:

 

And would you still feel the same way if the person mowing his lawn is a 13 year old kid learning the value of hard work and saving for something he wants rather than asking his parents to buy it for him? Or would you rather he fill out an I-9 and let Uncle Sam take a cut?

[Patty16]

Tea baggers? Original! I love how its acceptable for the left to use a sexual pejorative to describe a political/grass roots movement.

 

I also find it funny that you describe the aims of a movement that has existed for only, what, two years, as "what they have wanted to do FOREVER".

 

I don't profess to know much about the tea party platform, but I know enough to confidently say that not a single thing you mention is on their platform.

 

Nice Post :thumbsup:

 

You should read up on the tea party then kind sir. First, they are not grass roots, most of their candidates were funded by large corporate donors.

Its really hard to distinguish what they are calling for from with the Reps stand for. Tea partiers calling for small govt back to the constitution(when most fundamentally dont understand the document, at least their candidates)