LastPommerFan Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Negotiating on a house. the waiting is aweful. And why the hell are we paying these two idiot Realtors 6% of this transaction? They are hindering the process with their stupidness and adding absolutely no value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I have been blessed with mostly good clients over the year when it come to my freelance. Unfortunately, because I earned a reputation as being a quick turnaround artist back when I was working just one job, I'm getting clients who expect speed and perfection for no money. (seriously, I ended up working for free last week) This guy wants a logo. I'm not really a graphic designer, but took the job since it was for a friend, and this client is her boss. "I don't really know what I want but X (my friend) told me you work super fast so have this all done and wrapped up by beginning of next week and made into business cards for me." No, man, no. Just no. I'm not a goddamn machine. I am working 30-40 hours freelance (multiple projects at once, not just this one), 40+ hours full time job, and teaching. I need to break this reputation, it is killing me. Oh, and my boss is on ANOTHER vacation. On the beach. His fourth weeklong plus vacation since the beginning of the year. I took two vacation days last week, felt guilty, and ended up just working all one of them when my washer exploded anyways. We still don't technically have vacation days. Thank god the weather is nice today or I really think I'd go play in traffic. I keep telling you to price yourself out of the jobs but you won't listen to me :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 That's not a hard situation to fix. Explain your situation the same way you did here and let people know you can't/won't do quick turnaround jobs for peanuts anymore due to a growing workload. That gives them 3 options: 1. Accept the longer turnaround times 2. Pay you more money to make their business a priority 3. Find someone else to do it If your plate is full, your plate is full. The key is not to cave and make anyone's project a priority without payment reflecting it. If they think you'll cave and make it a priority without paying a premium for it, you'll continue to get suckered in. I keep telling you to price yourself out of the ###### jobs but you won't listen to me :P I need a backbone. Or an agent. They're usually friends. I can't turn down friends. And then because they're friends, I never get paid. I get paid in compliments. But those aren't paying the rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I need a backbone. Or an agent. They're usually friends. I can't turn down friends. And then because they're friends, I never get paid. I get paid in compliments. But those aren't paying the rent. Have Dark do it. I don't think he'd have any trouble going into dick head mode to help you out. Edited April 2, 2015 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I need a backbone. Or an agent. They're usually friends. I can't turn down friends. And then because they're friends, I never get paid. I get paid in compliments. But those aren't paying the rent. Would it be feasible that prior to any freelance jobs having the client agree to a contract explaining the scope of work, expected time to completion and either a time and materials cost or a fixed bid sum? That would take care of a lot of your issues if they understood the cost/billing and scope ahead of time. That would also help with your friends requests as well, where once you her from them you let your contract terms do the talking/heavy lifting. And you get paid :thumbsup: Just my finance .02 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I need a backbone. Or an agent. They're usually friends. I can't turn down friends. And then because they're friends, I never get paid. I get paid in compliments. But those aren't paying the rent. that's . beat your friends with a paint brush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Add - It wouldn't be too difficult to have a stock contract written up, where you could just fill in the necessary details, like expected time of completion and quoted cost. Both parties sign and then the expectations from both sides are known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Have Dark do it. I don't think he'd have any trouble going into dick head mode to help you out. I've offered but she doesn't want to scare work away :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I need a backbone. Or an agent. They're usually friends. I can't turn down friends. And then because they're friends, I never get paid. I get paid in compliments. But those aren't paying the rent. My wife used to have this exact problem. I can tell you from 2nd hand experience, once you get the backbone, life gets a whole bunch better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Haha d4rk in dick mode is a mode I try to avoid when possible... Even moreso if it's on my behalf. I have written up contracts before, but usually only with legit companies/clients. I'm still in that weird limbo of "what the heck do I charge". I always end up caving and charging friends less because I don't want to offend them for charging what I feel is a lot of money. I charge lower because I'm terrified someone will tell me I'm not worth it if I ask for more. I'm terrified of having to go after someone legally. Even though I've been out of college for a few years, I still feel like an amateur fragile ego kid, not the industry hardened consummate professional I should be. It's a tough line to walk for art. Especially since I do so many different styles, it's hard to nail down a quantitative assessment. I know I'm doing something wrong, because the ones who DO pay me, often end up giving me more money than I asked for. I am not a business minded woman. The stress of it all keeps me up at night. :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Haha d4rk in dick mode is a mode I try to avoid when possible... Even moreso if it's on my behalf. I have written up contracts before, but usually only with legit companies/clients. I'm still in that weird limbo of "what the heck do I charge". I always end up caving and charging friends less because I don't want to offend them for charging what I feel is a lot of money. I charge lower because I'm terrified someone will tell me I'm not worth it if I ask for more. I'm terrified of having to go after someone legally. Even though I've been out of college for a few years, I still feel like an amateur fragile ego kid, not the industry hardened consummate professional I should be. It's a tough line to walk for art. Especially since I do so many different styles, it's hard to nail down a quantitative assessment. I know I'm doing something wrong, because the ones who DO pay me, often end up giving me more money than I asked for. I am not a business minded woman. The stress of it all keeps me up at night. :sick: I'm not kidding, you sound EXACTLY like Mrs. Case of Emotion circa 2012. literally the same words and anxieties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I need a backbone. Or an agent. They're usually friends. I can't turn down friends. And then because they're friends, I never get paid. I get paid in compliments. But those aren't paying the rent. This comes around all the time in photography circles. AmandaPie and I had a pro friend of my wife shoot our wedding (shout out to City Lights Studio in Buffalo!). She gave us a friend discount, but still her normal scructure. It might be tough at first, but as others have said establish a rate structure and stick to it, albeit with a friends and family discount if you like. You're not only helping yourself out, you're helping the other artists in the area by not undercutting them. http://rising.blackstar.com/photographers-excuses.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Haha d4rk in dick mode is a mode I try to avoid when possible. So what you are saying is you avoid d4rk when he's trying to bring sexy back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Haha d4rk in dick mode is a mode I try to avoid when possible... Well, this certainly explains why he's so cranky all the damn time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not kidding, you sound EXACTLY like Mrs. Case of Emotion circa 2012. literally the same words and anxieties. Art people! We're great, ain't we. Edited April 2, 2015 by Josie914 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Haha d4rk in dick mode is a mode I try to avoid when possible... Even moreso if it's on my behalf. I have written up contracts before, but usually only with legit companies/clients. I'm still in that weird limbo of "what the heck do I charge". I always end up caving and charging friends less because I don't want to offend them for charging what I feel is a lot of money. I charge lower because I'm terrified someone will tell me I'm not worth it if I ask for more. I'm terrified of having to go after someone legally. Even though I've been out of college for a few years, I still feel like an amateur fragile ego kid, not the industry hardened consummate professional I should be. It's a tough line to walk for art. Especially since I do so many different styles, it's hard to nail down a quantitative assessment. I know I'm doing something wrong, because the ones who DO pay me, often end up giving me more money than I asked for. I am not a business minded woman. The stress of it all keeps me up at night. :sick: I'm going to draft a rate structure with you this weekend. If you can put the work you do for people/businesses into categories then we can go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 This comes around all the time in photography circles. AmandaPie and I had a pro friend of my wife shoot our wedding (shout out to City Lights Studio in Buffalo!). She gave us a friend discount, but still her normal scructure. It might be tough at first, but as others have said establish a rate structure and stick to it, albeit with a friends and family discount if you like. You're not only helping yourself out, you're helping the other artists in the area by not undercutting them. http://rising.blackstar.com/photographers-excuses.html That's a good point. I try to give some of my overflow work that isn't quite my thing to other artists I know. Spread the love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Haha d4rk in dick mode is a mode I try to avoid when possible... Even moreso if it's on my behalf. I have written up contracts before, but usually only with legit companies/clients. I'm still in that weird limbo of "what the heck do I charge". I always end up caving and charging friends less because I don't want to offend them for charging what I feel is a lot of money. I charge lower because I'm terrified someone will tell me I'm not worth it if I ask for more. I'm terrified of having to go after someone legally. Even though I've been out of college for a few years, I still feel like an amateur fragile ego kid, not the industry hardened consummate professional I should be. It's a tough line to walk for art. Especially since I do so many different styles, it's hard to nail down a quantitative assessment. I know I'm doing something wrong, because the ones who DO pay me, often end up giving me more money than I asked for. I am not a business minded woman. The stress of it all keeps me up at night. :sick: I would say at this point you have certainly proved that this isn't just some side hobby dealio. With regards to pricing, I would offer this idea. If you can get a hold of the pricing/contract structure of your actual 40+ hr a week company job, that would be a good basis to start with. The cost you quote should be whatever the tipping point is between "why am I wasting my time with this?" and "That was a pain in the ass, but at least it was worth it". Also, having this structure in place may have the added benefit of being treated more like the professional artist you are. College art students can do free work, I would assume the level of quality you provide is above that. Of course it's all up to you. Just some suggestions. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 But really guys, thanks for all the input. I've been a quiet lurker this season around these parts. I hope it eases up and I can do more hockey related stuff again. I've got a laundry list of stuff I want to do that's been on the back burner for awhile. That and someday learning how to airbrush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm going to draft a rate structure with you this weekend. If you can put the work you do for people/businesses into categories then we can go from there. That would be great. I will thank you with cookies. I plan on baking a few batches this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 That would be great. I will thank you with cookies. I plan on baking a few batches this weekend. Are there free cookies for all of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Are there free cookies for all of us? Not sure we get the same kind of cookies as d4rk... :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not sure we get the same kind of cookies as d4rk... :blush: :blush: :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Negotiating on a house. ###### the waiting is aweful. And why the hell are we paying these two idiot Realtors 6% of this transaction? They are hindering the process with their stupidness and adding absolutely no value. Realtor seems to me to be the ultimate non-value added job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Are there free cookies for all of us? If you come play hockey with me Sunday night, sure!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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