Lethbridge Broncos Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Martin Lapoint. Could be had for $3.1-3.5 mil. for 2 seasons. Good roll player, a devil if they can get into the playoffs where he could bang around. Shannahan would be perfect, but he won't come to Buffalo. It's hard to get a three (3) time Cup/ Gold Olympic Medal winner to come to a small market. Him playing in Bflo would be like putting a white silk vest on a pig. They may want to work on shootouts before the season. They would have made the playoff if they could have pulled a few more out. Look at the stats. Ruff needs to determine who can score on these. Also, Miller needs to sharpen up in this area. How valuable was Briere in this one particular area? I would dress Gerbe just for the shootouts. He could sit the entire game -- ala Peters/ Kaleta, until that moment. Scared about the PP? Can't wait to see Gaustad in front with Sekara on the point (sense sarcasm)? Those two on the PP could make a man puke. How about Vanek; Connolly, Roy, Pominville and Spach the entire 2 minutes? Wishful thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Martin Lapoint. Could be had for $3.1-3.5 mil. for 2 seasons. Good roll player, a devil if they can get into the playoffs where he could bang around. Shannahan would be perfect, but he won't come to Buffalo. It's hard to get a three (3) time Cup/ Gold Olympic Medal winner to come to a small market. Him playing in Bflo would be like putting a white silk vest on a pig. They may want to work on shootouts before the season. They would have made the playoff if they could have pulled a few more out. Look at the stats. Ruff needs to determine who can score on these. Also, Miller needs to sharpen up in this area. How valuable was Briere in this one particular area? I would dress Gerbe just for the shootouts. He could sit the entire game -- ala Peters/ Kaleta, until that moment. Scared about the PP? Can't wait to see Gaustad in front with Sekara on the point (sense sarcasm)? Those two on the PP could make a man puke. How about Vanek; Connolly, Roy, Pominville and Spach the entire 2 minutes? Wishful thinking... I seem to remember some numbers I put together about the shootouts before the crash, Briere not that big of a factor. Lapoint? we don't need any more RW'rs. We have tons of guys better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awill29 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I disagree with the Gerbe idea. Kotalik will be back again. Gerbe needs to stay in Portland...he shouldn't fly to Buffalo and sit for 65 minutes just to play that extra 5 at the end. And Kaleta doesn't sit the whole game...he probably gets (estimation here) 8-10 minutes a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 How about Vanek; Connolly, Roy, Pominville and Spach the entire 2 minutes? Wishful thinking... What about Rivet, Stafford, Max, Hecht, and Ales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 How about Vanek; Connolly, Roy, Pominville and Spach the entire 2 minutes? Wishful thinking... What about Rivet, Stafford, Max, Hecht, and Ales? All good but are they 'scary good'. IMHO Connolly is scary on the PP. Has Rivet got a good shot? Or does he Zhitnik it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwilli3 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 All good but are they 'scary good'. IMHO Connolly is scary on the PP. Has Rivet got a good shot? Or does he Zhitnik it? I agree on Connolly. He needs to both 1. Stay healthy (perhaps wishful thinking) and 2. Center the PP's top line. He is a great puck handler and assist man, which was sorely missed at times last year. Also, Spacek and Paestch probably have our best Blue Line Shots on the team, and I think Paestch is probably a better player on PP than Rivet in terms of shooting ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethbridge Broncos Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Rivet has a fairly heavy and accurate shot. He keeps it low. He is savvy and will use a snap and wrist shot where necessary. Rivet was schooled well in Montreal and has some nice tools. The problem is that is NOT a premier offensive talent. His skating, balance, first step, stick handling and overall skill set is not first tier. As such, he as the Sabres PP linchpin would not be an upgrade over Sekara -- or what Zhitnik used to be. Rivet is a nice addition to any corps. He is NOT the savior. He will take the pressure of Lydman to play physical. He will also tutor Butler and Weber. If they could get Spach in an offseason conditioning program (fat a$s) -- the backline will be servicable. The problem is that they still lack fiber downlow -- and physical teams will bully them for it. And this has a direct effect on Miller who sees alot of in close traffic because of this and tons of rebound attempts. TO HELP YOU SEE, think of Detroit. There, Osgood sees about 19 shots per game. This is because his defense keeps a shield around the cage b/k they are physical and because they play with bite and grit to defend at all costs. Good backchecking forwards help too. Ryan Miller gets beat up every game. Mentally too. He has said this, over and over. But make not mistake, the Sabres backline is soft as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbochan Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Rivet has a fairly heavy and accurate shot. He keeps it low. He is savvy and will use a snap and wrist shot where necessary. Rivet was schooled well in Montreal and has some nice tools. The problem is that is NOT a premier offensive talent. His skating, balance, first step, stick handling and overall skill set is not first tier. As such, he as the Sabres PP linchpin would not be an upgrade over Sekara -- or what Zhitnik used to be. Rivet is a nice addition to any corps. He is NOT the savior. He will take the pressure of Lydman to play physical. He will also tutor Butler and Weber. If they could get Spach in an offseason conditioning program (fat a$s) -- the backline will be servicable. The problem is that they still lack fiber downlow -- and physical teams will bully them for it. And this has a direct effect on Miller who sees alot of in close traffic because of this and tons of rebound attempts. TO HELP YOU SEE, think of Detroit. There, Osgood sees about 19 shots per game. This is because his defense keeps a shield around the cage b/k they are physical and because they play with bite and grit to defend at all costs. Good backchecking forwards help too. Ryan Miller gets beat up every game. Mentally too. He has said this, over and over. But make not mistake, the Sabres backline is soft as it gets. Damn, I'm guessing English isn't your first language, but you sure as hell get your point across. I can't argue a word of what you said. Damn fine post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 They may want to work on shootouts before the season. They would have made the playoff if they could have pulled a few more out. Look at the stats. Ruff needs to determine who can score on these. Also, Miller needs to sharpen up in this area. How valuable was Briere in this one particular area? I would dress Gerbe just for the shootouts. He could sit the entire game -- ala Peters/ Kaleta, until that moment. One of my pet peeves is that Ruff never goes with the hot hand. I don't care if it Andrew Peters, if a guy scores a goal in the game, he should get a crack at the shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethbridge Broncos Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I agree with you. And they need to practice shootouts. Sound assinine to practice breakaways at this level (i.e, lets practice nap time), but when you got guys performing as sad as they have (Vanek almost shot a puck into the freaking crowd on a break last season) they need to practice. And this falls on Ruff. Ruff said that himself. Ruff needs to get his act together and get 5-6 guys ready for the shootout each night. Paramount they fix this. They would have made the playoffs if this was remedied... Can we get 'Lucky' Luc Robitaille to come back for a season? Maybe Tony Tanti is available? I'll even take Jody Gage! One of my pet peeves is that Ruff never goes with the hot hand. I don't care if it Andrew Peters, if a guy scores a goal in the game, he should get a crack at the shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Strike Force Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Tallinder should be in the shootout lineup. He's tremendous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I agree with you. And they need to practice shootouts. Sound assinine to practice breakaways at this level (i.e, lets practice nap time), but when you got guys performing as sad as they have (Vanek almost shot a puck into the freaking crowd on a break last season) they need to practice. And this falls on Ruff. Ruff said that himself. Ruff needs to get his act together and get 5-6 guys ready for the shootout each night. Paramount they fix this. They would have made the playoffs if this was remedied... Can we get 'Lucky' Luc Robitaille to come back for a season? Maybe Tony Tanti is available? I'll even take Jody Gage! Vanek was/is horrendous in the SO. That experiment is OVER. He should not see the ice unless the first three shots result in a tie. You can't fix what is broke there. He is a highly paid professional hockey player and he simply comes unglued in the SO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Forget about LaPointe or any other veteran forward. DR for some reason avoids them like the plague in FA and this year doesn't appear to be any different. Instead we have Peters, Ryan(more than likely gone) and Mair. God forbid we shake up the all-powerful 4th line by bringing in a vet to possibly recharge the players both on the ice and in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Forget about LaPointe or any other veteran forward. DR for some reason avoids them like the plague in FA and this year doesn't appear to be any different. Instead we have Peters, Ryan(more than likely gone) and Mair. God forbid we shake up the all-powerful 4th line by bringing in a vet to possibly recharge the players both on the ice and in the locker room. They have enough 3rd and 4th line guys though, they need top level talent. Not potential top level talent, actual top level talent on the team if they are looking at winning now and not in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 They have enough 3rd and 4th line guys though, they need top level talent. Not potential top level talent, actual top level talent on the team if they are looking at winning now and not in a few years But since superstars don't grow on trees, they don't really have anyone in the system(Gerbe and Kennedy are probably the only two forwards with top 6 potential) and sugar packets Golisano isn't about to trade for or acquire such player in FA, what you see, is what you get. I would consider the following Sabres to be "top end"(not Crosby/Ovechkin like superstars, but all-star potential) in the forward ranks... Roy Pominville Vanek(despite his questionable work ethic) Connolly(if he could stay healthy) Stafford has the potential to join this group, but he has to improve over last years performance by a LOT. The rest of the guys all fall into 3rd line/4th line category and in short stints, maybe 2nd line... Hecht Max Kotalik Paille Gaustad Mair Kaleta Peters MacArthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphs mike Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 One of my pet peeves is that Ruff never goes with the hot hand. I don't care if it Andrew Peters, if a guy scores a goal in the game, he should get a crack at the shootout. As I recall one of our few shootout wins last year was by Tallinder - obviously a good hunch/hot hand choice by Lindy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 They have enough 3rd and 4th line guys though, they need top level talent. Not potential top level talent, actual top level talent on the team if they are looking at winning now and not in a few years This probably should be a new topic but ... since you brought it up ... Is there really ANYTHING they can do in the next 3 months that will get them to the point where they can realistically think about winning the Cup THIS season? I am not sure there is ... they can definitely make some moves to get better, but is there anything they can do that will make you (collective, not just apus) go "THAT'S THE TEAM I WANT! Finally!"? Personally, I don't think that magic bullet is out there. For me it's all about locking up Miller and Pominville, seeing if Sekera, Stafford and Paille become bona fide NHL regulars, seeing how hard Weber and the other kids push for spots, and getting the dead weight off the payroll (Max and/or Connolly and/or Kotalik to a lesser extent) ... I'm not saying I don't care if they miss the playoffs, I think if they lock up Miller and Pominville and Miller plays like he can, they are a playoff team. I just don't think they go anywhere at that point ... and I am not sure there is some big move out there that changes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Scared about the PP? Can't wait to see Gaustad in front with Sekara on the point (sense sarcasm)? Those two on the PP could make a man puke. How about Vanek; Connolly, Roy, Pominville and Spach the entire 2 minutes? Wishful thinking... WTF are you talking about??? Sekara was playing great on the PP the times he was used. He is an up and coming star and I'm very happy to have him back there learning and improving that aspect of his game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 But since superstars don't grow on trees, they don't really have anyone in the system(Gerbe and Kennedy are probably the only two forwards with top 6 potential) and sugar packets Golisano isn't about to trade for or acquire such player in FA, what you see, is what you get. I would consider the following Sabres to be "top end"(not Crosby/Ovechkin like superstars, but all-star potential) in the forward ranks... Roy Pominville Vanek(despite his questionable work ethic) Connolly(if he could stay healthy) Stafford has the potential to join this group, but he has to improve over last years performance by a LOT. The rest of the guys all fall into 3rd line/4th line category and in short stints, maybe 2nd line... Hecht Max Kotalik Paille Gaustad Mair Kaleta Peters MacArthur Roy and Pomminstein are guys that could definitly end up eventually as top tier players, but I think when you look around at the league, I don't think many other teams would see them as superstars. Vanek has the salary to be be one, but has not shown that he will handle being one just yet either, so those 3 definitly fit into the "potential" spot. But right now they would be consider top level second liners to good but not great first liners in the league. When you compare those 3 to something like Ottawa's top line of Heatley, Spezza and Alfredson, theres no comparison. As for Connolly, I would not put him there at all, and thats nothing to do with the injuries. He just hasn't been consistent enough over his career to deserve being in that category. He has only had 1 great year and a good playoffs since the lockout, and before that, he was at Peters/Max status around here where everyone would have been happy watching him being traded for a bag of pucks. And I know its not likely anything can be done before the start of the season to change all of this. The thing that is frustrating to me though, is that they are never players in trying to get to the point where they are willing to go after that kind of player to get better now, they would rather take a chance on potential busts turning their careers around here, and hoping they will stay loyal to them for taking a chance on them and sign below market levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 The thing that is frustrating to me though, is that they are never players in trying to get to the point where they are willing to go after that kind of player to get better now, they would rather take a chance on potential busts turning their careers around here, and hoping they will stay loyal to them for taking a chance on them and sign below market levels. We agree on this. Target a player who you really feel is top talent and find a way to bring them in via trade or FA. Do they go on the market every day of the week? No, but every GM has their price as evidenced by top players like Pronger, Thornton, Jokinen, Hossa, Smyth, Savard, Chara, etc moving around. We are not talking about players at the end of their careers either. Is the sugar packet king about to authorize a move like this? Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Roy and Pomminstein are guys that could definitly end up eventually as top tier players, but I think when you look around at the league, I don't think many other teams would see them as superstars. Vanek has the salary to be be one, but has not shown that he will handle being one just yet either, so those 3 definitly fit into the "potential" spot. But right now they would be consider top level second liners to good but not great first liners in the league. When you compare those 3 to something like Ottawa's top line of Heatley, Spezza and Alfredson, theres no comparison. As for Connolly, I would not put him there at all, and thats nothing to do with the injuries. He just hasn't been consistent enough over his career to deserve being in that category. He has only had 1 great year and a good playoffs since the lockout, and before that, he was at Peters/Max status around here where everyone would have been happy watching him being traded for a bag of pucks. And I know its not likely anything can be done before the start of the season to change all of this. The thing that is frustrating to me though, is that they are never players in trying to get to the point where they are willing to go after that kind of player to get better now, they would rather take a chance on potential busts turning their careers around here, and hoping they will stay loyal to them for taking a chance on them and sign below market levels. Like who, for instance? Not trying to fight with you, I just don't remember them signing any outsiders who are looking to turn their careers around ... if you had just stopped before that, I agree, they just don't do business that way ... last time they did that was LaFontaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 My wording of that phrase may have been a little too strong using the term busts, but briere was a bit of an underachiever in Phoenix, Bernier was a guy, although his stay wasn't long, but he was someone who was looking like someone who needed a change of scenery. I guess the way I should have said it was that they will go out and look for under the radar, under achievers, guys who haven't reached their potential yet, and hope they turn it around in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'd like to see Lindy put Vanek in the #1 spot for a shootout attempt. I think there would be less pressure in his mind from that spot rather then going in the 3rd or 4th spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awill29 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Roy and Pomminstein are guys that could definitly end up eventually as top tier players, but I think when you look around at the league, I don't think many other teams would see them as superstars. Vanek has the salary to be be one, but has not shown that he will handle being one just yet either, so those 3 definitly fit into the "potential" spot. But right now they would be consider top level second liners to good but not great first liners in the league. When you compare those 3 to something like Ottawa's top line of Heatley, Spezza and Alfredson, theres no comparison. Heatley, Spezza, and Alfredsson are superstars. I could compare anyone else's top line (excluding Pitt & Detroit) with them, and there would be no comparison. It's really not a fair judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Heatley, Spezza, and Alfredsson are superstars. I could compare anyone else's top line (excluding Pitt & Detroit) with them, and there would be no comparison. It's really not a fair judgement. Very true. In fact, it's difficult (if not impossible) to find another team with three players that produce on the same level as those three, other than Pittsburgh and Detroit (actually, they only have two forwards that do, but Lidstrom does as well.) I know stats aren't everything, but if you include Crosby based on his pace, there were only 19 players with 80+ points last season (of which, Pommer and Roy were two), 10 with 90+ and 3 with 100+. Looking at this list, these are franchise players and, with few exceptions, there is at most one of them on each team. Only Detroit, Tampa, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Ottawa have two (or in Ottawa's case, three.) For Ottawa, this comes at the expense of production from their other lines, which can be a risk if their opponent has a shut-down defensive pairing and forward line that they can get out against the big three. Our guys are, admittedly, younger and less proven than some other top line players, but any one of them could find a spot on most team's front lines. In fact, Ottawa may be the one team where they wouldn't have a chance at that third spot on the top line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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