gregkash Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 i understand they didn't have a great year last year, but they've been our best two defenseman for a while now, so where is all the anti lydman especially sentiment coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRuff Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 i understand they didn't have a great year last year, but they've been our best two defenseman for a while now, so where is all the anti lydman especially sentiment coming from? Perhaps they don't seem to be well liked because they're solid players under contract. The players who seem to be the most valued are the players we lose, those who are traded away, and those we don't get in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneRobert Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Perhaps they don't seem to be well liked because they're solid players under contract. The players who seem to be the most valued are the players we lose, those who are traded away, and those we don't get in free agency. Well put. And don't forget, some people on message boards like to show off their alleged detailed knowledge of the game by focusing on one player as the root of all problems. It makes them feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwilli3 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 I personally haven't seen any such animosity towards those two particular players. I think they are two of our best three defensemen and though they had a bad year last year points wise, should both be better. They are young, talented and are good at staying at home and participating in the rush. They could probably be a bit more physical than they are on the backcheck, but hey, no one is perfect. Plus, I blame the lack of physicality on a number of things that are part of the FO and Coaching staff. Both players will hopefully stay in Buffalo, and hopefully we'll get some tougher D-men to help them out. Anyone who is hating on Lydman and Tallinder clearly hasn't been watching them play as a whole over the last three seasons. Clearly two of our better D-men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Tallinder was looking to be a great defenseman until he broke his arm. He lost some of his edge when that happened and it seems that as he goes, so goes Toni. Add to that the slide of the NHL back to old form and their value declined. Last year was their worst season and they were even demoted to second pair shortly into the season, where they sat until Campbell left. There is no guarantee that they will be the top pair next year with Spacek and Rivet in the mix. I wouldn't say that there is hate for these two, but given their contracts (two more years at $5.4 million total), they certainly were/are targets for the chopping block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Tallinder was looking to be a great defenseman until he broke his arm. He lost some of his edge when that happened and it seems that as he goes, so goes Toni. Add to that the slide of the NHL back to old form and their value declined. Last year was their worst season and they were even demoted to second pair shortly into the season, where they sat until Campbell left. There is no guarantee that they will be the top pair next year with Spacek and Rivet in the mix. I wouldn't say that there is hate for these two, but given their contracts (two more years at $5.4 million total), they certainly were/are targets for the chopping block. Tallinder and Lydman need to be a lot better then they were last year. Like Carp said, Hank hasn't been the same since his broken arm. Question is if he can return to form. With all the other question marks, these two may be the key to a successful season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Lydman had some very visible, very crucial turnovers last year. He ended up in the wrong spotlight. That said, he also turned up the physical aspect of his game last year, and for that I give him credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Tallinder and Lydman need to be a lot better then they were last year. Like Carp said, Hank hasn't been the same since his broken arm. Question is if he can return to form. With all the other question marks, these two may be the key to a successful season. Bingo. With Tallinder out of the lineup (and then subsequently not playing well upon his return) I think Toni got out of his "comfort zone" and started trying to do too much. That led to what seemed to be uncharacteristic bad play - turnovers, miscommunication in his own end, bad clearing attempts. Regardless of what other moves are made, we're still going to rely upon Tallydman a lot next year -- so they MUST get their game back up to snuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Kalinin is gone. We can only be better. He was the root of all our problems last year. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Bingo. With Tallinder out of the lineup (and then subsequently not playing well upon his return) I think Toni got out of his "comfort zone" and started trying to do too much. That led to what seemed to be uncharacteristic bad play - turnovers, miscommunication in his own end, bad clearing attempts. Regardless of what other moves are made, we're still going to rely upon Tallydman a lot next year -- so they MUST get their game back up to snuff. Maybe if they didn't KNOW every mistake was going to end up in the back of the net, they could relax and play their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRobertEichel Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Kalinin is gone. We can only be better. He was the root of all our problems last year. <_< Actually, the root of all our problems continues to be Andrew Peters. If he had won more fights, we would have won more games. All he's doing is taking up a valuable roster spot that should be reserved for either Mancari or Michael Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 They would be great as a #2 pair, unfortunately, they're our top pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 they're a damn good top pair. you'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Maybe if they didn't KNOW every mistake was going to end up in the back of the net, they could relax and play their game. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes: Maybe if every one of their mistakes didn't lead to a 2-on-1 or a breakaway the puck wouldn't end up in the back of the net. Too bad they aren't playing in front of Dom, then no one would notice what a crappy year they really had. they're a damn good top pair. you'll see. They were a damn good pair in '05-06, until Hank broke his arm for the first time. The jury is still out on whether Hank returns to form, and with that, brings Toni's game back to where it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRuff Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 It was obvious that HT wasn't the same last year coming off those consecutive injuries, but Lindy made it very clear that he expects a lot more now that he's finally healthy. When Hank was on top of his game, he was excellent back there. And I've always thought that Lydman is solid as a rock. Wish he'd use his strength more aggressively, but as a group I like those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Well put. And don't forget, some people on message boards like to show off their alleged detailed knowledge of the game by focusing on one player as the root of all problems. It makes them feel good. I feel like someone is talking about me... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 I thisnk Talliman had an off year, I think they will rebound this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 I think Lydman gets a bad rap. He was prone to the bonehead play last year, but he hits, he blocks shots and is a good penalty killer. Tallinder on the other hand has not developed at all like I thought he would. He continues to be weak along the boards when attempting to clear the puck and does not seem to be rushing the puck out of his own end as much as a couple of years ago. I really thought he had the talent to become a perennial all-star, but I don't know if the injuries or some other factor derailed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 One of my favorite pictures.....Hank Says, "Our Defense is A-OK!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethbridge Broncos Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Toni had a very good 06 season. But he feel off considerably last season. But the entire club had a fall off (hangover). He was just super in 06. Remember, he was kicked out of Calgary for two reasons: 1) bone-head give aways (we all know he does that); and 2) he gets too complacent (and takes shifts off when you don't keep on him). He is not a top #1 or #2 guy, and he was supposed to be that once Campbell mentally checked out -- which Brian did game ONE (1) with NO contract. Ton is a solid #4 guy who blends into a robust corps nicely. Tallinder, is the same. Toni's other problem is that they wanted him to play phyical game one -- b/k the backline was all pussies. they wanted him to be a trash man on the ice. As such, he was asked to play a game he does not do. he looked tired as hell by game 50. He is a 40-45 second shift Euro who plays with flow and skating. He hardly 'pinched' last season -- which he is good at. His game last season was to hit and control play and be a #2 leader in the back. He will bounce back as the #3 or #4 guy. Rivet will assume the trash work now. I still think he makes too much... i understand they didn't have a great year last year, but they've been our best two defenseman for a while now, so where is all the anti lydman especially sentiment coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Toni gets mesmerized by the play ALOT and forgets that there is someone at the back door just waiting for a pass. I can't count the number of times I watch the other team score this way, where he was just standing between the circles with noone around him, and a guy wide open behind him. It's those mental things that frustrate me with him because he doesn't even have to play physical in that situation, he just has to be in the guy's face for him not to score. I'm not sure, but I think he plays alot on the PK, so even though his +/- looks pretty good, we see him get scored on often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 One of my favorite pictures.....Hank Says, "Our Defense is A-OK!" That is really how he dresses? :blink: This team has more problems than I thought. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 That is really how he dresses? :blink: This team has more problems than I thought. :doh: Swedes are strange, but at least the collar isn't popped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 They would be great as a #2 pair, unfortunately, they're our top pair. I really think, Spacek and Rivet will be top pairing on defense. I think Sekera will play with a newcomer or Teppo on the 3rd. Mike Weber gets more time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodfella25 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Where to begin.... They're not a #1 pairing. Much like some other players, they fed off of having a stacked, talented team for a couple years--until this year when their true colors were exposed. Lydman frequently clears the puck right up the middle of the ice or right in front of our own net--something they teach kids not to do beginning in PEEWEE. Tallinder hasn't been the same due to arm injuries. Both of them take a beating on the boards but can't offer anything in return. If they were our #1 pair heading into the playoffs this year, they would have been run through the boards. They both frequently have brain farts in their own zone--a place where they're frequently out-worked by opposing forwards, night in and night out as they get caught out of position. Lydman is decent at blocking shots, but Tallinder won't do it and I seem to remember a specific play late in the season where he literally jumped instead of blocking a shot. They both were still trying to figure it out 70 games into the season--Lydman gave an interview where he actually said "we need to learn to play smarter hockey." 70 freakin games into the season! But other than that, I love em :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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