LTS

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/federal-judge-rejects-trump-campaigns-pa-lawsuit-prejudice/story?id=74340354 Another one bites the dust..

Perfect!

Just making you aware (if you aren't already).. the notification pop-up you get when accessing the forum appears to be using black text on a black background. You see how many notifications you have, but you can;t see the line below it. And again, thank you for spending your time on this.

Intriguing. I've never heard of Parler. I might have to check this out.

Thanks for spending your time on this. I'm sure it's exactly what you had planned for today.

If anyone is wondering why the last page or two may look strange it's because I deleted the ongoing personal attack posts after I requested them to stop. I'm not a forum expert but the deletion process is a bit cludgy, so if I missed anything it was not intentional and if a reply that had multiple comments in it was deleted I apologize but the stink of personal attacks taints the whole post. The next step is to be removed from the club. I have sent personal messages along with this. Keep it above board or take a break.

Rather presumptuous isn't this? Do you know Team Canada's policies? The fact that both players chose to sit out when given a choice by the coach and that the coach even came up to them about it seems to indicate they are all okay with this. But somehow, from your chair, this is all wrong?

The Earth being round is a very bad example and you know this. The lawsuits that are in progress need to be ruled upon. It doesn't matter what you think the outcome will be. It matters what the outcome actually is. For what it's worth, you have used the word illegitimate in this response. At no point did I see that used before. The point being debated was whether the election was being disputed and if it was over. Everyone who has commented in opposition of your opinion have all said, Biden will be named the President. I have not seen one person say otherwise. The argument has continued to be, it's disputed (it is) and it's not over (it's not). Let's not be indirect, it really hinders conversation. If you have "someone" in mind, please use their name. Let's be done with this. This is below the standards we want for this forum. Healthy debate, even slightly heated is one thing. This goes beyond that in my opinion. (Sorry, it combined my posts). This last comment was directed at the two quotes above.

Not in my mind. The President becomes the President when the inauguration occurs. The election results become final when the electorate votes and all counts are certified. The apparent winner would be Biden, and in most Presidential races the loser has conceded by now which certainly leads to less discussion on the topic. In this case, it has not happened. I would love for Trump to concede and get this over with. No. Look. I don't know what else to say other than to post this: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/11/16/trump-election-lawsuits-republicans-battleground-states-vote-count/6177538002/ How can you look at that and where things sit and say there is not a dispute? If you want to keep saying "genuine dispute" can you please define it so we can all work from the same definition? As for your last sentence, people have the right to question the validity. The lawsuits are being ruled upon by our judicial system. I would think it far more harmful to America to argue that people should not have those rights as you are doing.

If it is wrong to state fact then you are on equal grounds with the delusional man currently in office. I don't want to say that about you, but it's accurate. I am not creating doubt, the election is not certified, the electorate has not voted, and as such the determination is not final. That's reality. I am not controlling reality here. You are portraying it as sowing seeds of doubt, that's inaccurate. I am portraying it as reality. I don't enable anything. I could just as easily reverse your position to say that those who are claiming this election is over and Biden is President are enabling a mindset that process does not matter and that when media outlets call an election then its over. Essentially that's what anyone is doing who claims the results are final and that it is over. Claim it's over now and you might as well have been claiming to stop the vote counting before they were over. Follow the process, see it out. You can state, with a high degree of certainty, what the outcome would be. But to call out those who would say it's not over until the process is completed is wrong. 100% wrong. You let your emotions over Trump get the better of you. If there is a lawsuit disputing any outcome, it's disputed. I don't care what Trump is trying to do. He's an idiot. You can use any word you like, I am only sticking to what is happening with regards to the authenticity of the votes and any lawsuits that might impact what is certified. Trump can continue to dispute the election results as long as he wants. I do not have the current status of all lawsuits that might be disputing validity of results. If there are some in motion or time to file more and there is an intent to do so then I would say there's a dispute. I don't know what "genuine dispute" is from a legal foundation but I see it as I see it above. If there is a legal dispute in motion or can still be one put in motion then I would not consider things final. Not even close. I think you are accurate on the faithless electors. It rules the states are not unconstitutional in their rules. I did not go a further level to see what states have those rules. If it is indeed so few, then there is still considerable risk that electors could go against the popular vote. No, my argument is not akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup. But let me throw a sports analogy at you. There is an athlete who wins a Gold medal. They are handed the gold medal. They are the gold medalist... then a doping sample tests positive 3 months later and they are no longer the gold medalist. There is a NASCAR driver who wins a race. He has the championship trophy in his hands. He sprays champagne everywhere. Then officials take apart his car and find it out of compliance. The NASCAR driver no longer is the champion, despite having held the trophy. The results are final when the process that is required to make them final is complete. You don't have to like it. You can claim anything you want, but it's not accurate. I'm not bothered by the fact that it's not official, other than people telling others they are wrong for saying it's not official. Biden will be declared the winner of the election. He will be President. I am certain of that. But the election is not over. It's just not. Despite your claims or anyone else's claims. It's not over. You can argue with me, but you are wrong and that is indisputable. To me arguing the election is over is like arguing that Joe Biden is President when he has not yet taken the Oath of Office. Or do people think we should skip that part?

That's right. It's another one of those decisions that makes you wonder why it was made. At best I think your last point is part of the reason. They close the schools because they fear that an outbreak in schools is the ultimate black eye. As such, if so many kids are being expose because of close contacts its best to close the schools just in case. But, the impacts to kids are immense. At least our school district is one week on and one week off (half the student body alternates each week). My kids (13 and 16) are concerned about school's shutting down.. it is taking a huge toll psychologically on them. My son's hockey team is dealing with a COVID case and its amazing how poorly it has been handled. Not from the quarantine perspective. But basically they sent a generic statement with no information to the team. Everyone was left wondering when exposure might have occurred. Most people chose to skip practice the night the information came out and did not notify the coach. The coach in turn got pissed and called everyone "snowflakes" (he actually used more colorful language) and canceled practices next week so everyone can be "safe". Then, last night we got the information from the parent of the child and said that the DOH had determined that no one on our team would have been considered at risk for exposure from contact. It's like a microcosm of society where you have some families all panicked over possible exposure (they traveled to Pittsburgh for two tournaments in the past month though) and then a coach who basically called everyone stupid for having concerns. I happened to agree with the coach (not his approach however or his cancellation of practices). People are exposed all the time. The player on our team was asymptomatic. And that's what it boils down to for me. If you have faith that you are following protocols and that you don't hang around those who are not then you should not be worried. If you are worried despite that, then you should probably not be in public because you will be exposed in some way. There's no right answer except the one you feel comfortable with. However, if you follow protocols and still find out someone you may have been around gets COVID and you react the way the people on our team did, you should probably re-examine what you are comfortable with in the first place.

Your statement is in direct contradiction to your position. The very fact that Trump is disputing the election makes it a disputed election. It's not wrong. Sorry, but allowing for possibilities regardless of probabilities is not wrong. Think of a door closing.. there's a point where people may consider the door closed before it is, in fact, closed. At this point, the election is not closed. As such, there are possibilities of things that can happen. 100% this. And this is why I am thankful the Supreme Court killed the "faithless electorate" over the summer. That was one of my concerns. That electorates ignored the state mandate and voted for one candidate or another. How do you define dispute? If he is filing motions then it is in dispute. The outcome could be plainly obvious but that does not change that it's happening. Someone can file a frivolous lawsuit, just because its outcome is all but assured it doesn't mean the lawsuit does not exist. Biden has not won the election. The process used within this country dictates that. Yes, I am in agreement that Biden will almost assuredly win... but it is not official. --------------- People are emotional over Trump and they want him to go away. I understand that. I do too. But when we choose to let our emotions overtake the facts we are falling victim to similar issues that plague the current President. The facts are: votes are not certified, electorates have not voted and because of that, Biden has not won. Improbable things happen all the time... as Buffalo sports fans we should be very familiar with the concept. When it's official.. it's official.

I'll say this. When I was in Pittsburgh two weeks ago masks were not being enforced, not by a long shot. Even when asked, the one hotel did nothing to enforce it basically saying they could not. I don't think PA is any different than anywhere else. Enforcement in NY only works because they threaten the businesses, but that really only works with some businesses, places like hotels aren't going to care. I still see some people walking through stores without masks. I see people in the gym not wearing them properly so they might as well not be wearing them. Bottom line, this is why NYS basically shuts things down, because people aren't going to comply, some businesses are not going to enforce, and ultimately you are left with shut down the business and we're all impacted at that point. Everything has to be defined at some point. Why not 11 or 12 is a fair question... but if you are going to define a rule.. you need to define the applicability of that rule. Why do bars close at 2am? 4am? midnight? (even without COVID)? Theoretically there is some science behind the limit... not sure there is here, but they had to define something.

I think the thing I find most interesting about this thread is just how heated people come across in what amounts to an opinion. Here's one other opinion...

You are not wrong. This is not the only time this idiot has done this either. I don't care about Antifa. At best he's as bad as they are and at worst... well, that's saying something. Trump has behaved as the single worst leader the United States has ever seen. I don't even know that anyone could make a reasonable argument otherwise. He's on par with the people we throw up in history books as "don't be this guy" to our kids. Yet, somehow, people find a way to defend him. It's mind boggling.

The Canes and Avs sweaters are nice. The Avs might be my favorite. I don't mind the Coyotes all though I think a lot of people won't. I can overlook the gray stripe on the bottom of the Sabres, but I don't love it. Overall I think we ended up with one of the best out of all the designs put out there.

Absolutely scary that anyone could support this person. I mean, from a sheer human decency standpoint... I can't fathom it. what could be worse than this guy having the platform he does?

It's the swords crossed and it will look awesome. someone posted the "leak" of it the other day and I believe that was the design. naturally to each their own..

Given that politics creeps in the other forums and gets moved here I figured I would create the catch all basin for it. Most recently discussions on Eichel trade demands ended up in the COVID thread.. they don't belong there. Given there is no where else for them to go.. the ended up somewhere. So now.. @nfreeman - please just move the stupid crap from the main forums here. Regardless of the topic. Frankly it's disrupting to see crap from the main forums end up in a thread here that had nothing to do with what was being discussed there.

Look, I would expect that "no checking" ends up looking a lot like a USA v Canada women's game where they are out there bouncing off each other at all times. You might not get the "finishing check" but you can be sure there will be contact. And I think that's the real key. In all non-checking leagues, it does not mean "no contact". There's usually plenty of that.

I dunno.. but I think I'd buy that sweater...

I believe this. Leftist extremists have been involved in incidents of violence. Neither side holds a morale high ground. The problem is that those who identify as Republicans are currently enabling the behavior of the head of their party which is calling for violence and hatred. The head of the Democratic party is not. People who support Trump are enablers of his behavior and as I have said before. People are choosing to support that maniac and his minions because they'd rather see him in office than a Democrat. They're fine with four more years of their party being represented by a wanna-be dictator. This is what is not cool to me. If I were a Republican I would be completely pissed at my party for having supported that turd for so long. He is a disgrace to humanity and to this country. I would feel the same way if we had the equivalent person in office but it was a Democrat. This country has been led by Republicans and Democrats and it's largely been fine until the past 4 years when the entire world just started laughing at the United States. We became a joke overnight. How can ANYONE support that? I understand where you are coming from, but I think you look at historical racism and ignore the racism that exists in front of you every day. Yes, the extremer left would like to say "you either are actively against racism or you are a racist." That's grade A BS right there. While everyone is created equal in the eyes of the law (as written on paper) they are not equal in the practice of it. We do need to continue to work against that. Perhaps not by marching on the Capitol in Albany. But we cannot accept continued systemic racism and policies that continue to work towards enabling it. By no means do I think there isn't work to be done all across the board. But the one thing I am positive of is that as we continue on this path towards separation and escalation, things will not get better.

First.. I used a smaller amount out of the gate, but the point is.. make the fine significant enough to encourage people to adhere. Wearing a mask does not convenience me. I hate wearing masks and would choose to do so if I knew I wasn't putting others at risk. My point is that shutting bars down will not have the same level of impact as actually enforcing masks. I'm not about government intervention at all, but I think we can agree that without some in this case we'll be in a true ****show. Yes.. I have seen bars from 5-7 when people get out of work. People who want to drink will. Home parties and private gatherings are the worst culprit. It's not that reducing hours won't help, but there's this concept that it will make a significant difference.. and it simply won't. This is where it's at. The world is full of what ifs.. its why lawyers continue to make a great living. There's a reasonable amount of a fine that can be levied. The point is.. I was in a hotel in PA where signs said "Masks must be worn at all times by PA state mandate". Yet, there were hundreds of people in the lobby (a religious convention we were told) where none of them were wearing masks and when we asked the hotel to enforce it, they said they couldn't. State mandate? Guess not. As I have written before, everyone has their own acceptable level of risk. What is your acceptable level of risk? Even with mask wearing there is still a fairly significant risk of being exposed and carrying the virus around. Being immunocompromised sucks (as you well know) but if I were in close contact (or was immunocompromised myself) that I would barely venture out into public at all. I'd get groceries delivered and so on. That said, given your situation, are you going to a bar at 4pm? Do you go to a restaurant? My parents won't sit down in a restaurant to eat because that's below their acceptable level of risk. They don't need a ruling from the government for that.. they just do it. Which is what my whole point is... we want people to practice safe habits but rather than enact rules that enforce that we enact rules that punish everyone and for minimal gain. The focus is in the wrong spot.

I would agree then. I had thought, for some reason, that the number of games he played in the NHL came into play with regards to having to protect him.

What is the purpose of closing the bar? Of limiting seating? Do these measures have as appreciable an impact as wearing a mask? Not even remotely. They impose limitations that further degrade the quality of life. I am using those two examples because they are the latest rules to be implemented. Let's not act like they are the only stupid rules that have been put in place by governments all over that have no real impact on "safety". We want people to wear masks. So, make them wear masks. So we close the bars at midnight... because the virus is only effective after midnight. What purpose does it serve? It allows bars to remain open so at least there can be some income earned? Servers can still work? Sure. They can if the bars are open until 2am or 4am. NYS got rid of happy hours, specialty drink pricing, etc. It did this because it encouraged people to binge drink, which was dangerous. So, now NYS thinks that reducing the hours will somehow reduce the alcohol consumption. Whereas before when someone got out of work at 11pm they might have until 2am to enjoy alcohol they now have an hour... do we not think they will cram in the drinking? You need to ask yourself. What is the POINT of the rules? What is the government attempting to accomplish? Arguments are that the mask wearing and hygiene are highly effective in limiting the transmission of the virus and yet no rules are actually put in place to force that to happen. Instead, rules are put in place so those who DO ABIDE by the mask wearing and hygiene are forced back into their homes. Rules are put in place to limit the freedoms of those who are responsible because of those who are not. Those who do not want to wear masks will still NOT be wearing masks while hanging out at a house party at 3am drinking their face off. Sorry for not fully clarifying my statement. I was using that in context of large gatherings where groups of people are not wearing masks (especially the Sturgis Rally). I realize the purpose of them. I appreciate you pointing out that I did not explain things well in my response late last night and doing so with civility. You should have stuck with your first instinct of not saying anything. But clearly you needed to get it out there. It's long fall from that mountain of superiority you put yourself on. You keep using your jump to conclusions mat and you'll eventually jump right off the end and fall off the cliff. I'll save my LOL for that moment. Glad you were entertained though. Take a look above at how it could have been handled...