Arbitration Alert: Daniel Briere

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

NHLPA.com showing that Briere is signed @ $5M for '06-'07.

 

http://www.nhlpa.com/WebStats/PlayerSearch...sp?OIDTeam=9508

 

Should we be hearing shortly that the Sabres accepted the offer? Will he then get traded?? You have to believe that Max goes and Danny stays.

[PASabreFan]

We still haven't heard comments from the sky is falling crowd on how they would feel if the team got a good deal on Briere. What if the team can get a player in return that will be around for more than 1 year?

 

Given that it's going to be a salary dump, wouldn't we be getting prospect type players/draft picks in return? How does that help us in the short term? Or are we already rebuilding for 08-09?

[GGM]

Click on columns and then Bucky Gleason.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060724/1063014.asp

I tried that as recently as 45 minutes ago, and the only article that came up was from 7/21/06. Anyway, we all know that Buffalo is always up to date and on top of things........Right.

 

Thanks for posting the link.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Gleason's column is pretty sobering. It makes a lot of sense. A small percentage of teams can drive up league-wide revenue and keep the salary cap going higher and higher and therefore the market for players like Briere goes higher and higher ... while the Sabres can't do much to get their revenue higher ...

[SabresOnTheWarpath]

The Sabres are in a bind with this one. Briere is not a 5-million a year player by any means, but they will be hard pressed to replace his offense especially with the uncertainty surrounding Connolly. Their best option is to trade him a younger player with offensive upside. I for one would not be upset about a trade for a young forward with potential. It seems the Sabres have no other choice. :(

[Goodfella25]

On a slightly tangential issue -- am I crazy, or is there zero coverage in the buff. news today on Briere? And has the overall coverage in the News of the FA/arbitration period totally sucked? WTF? What else are they covering?

 

 

Well after all, it's only a little over a month before football season, so obviously the Bills should get all the attention <_< ESPN is the worst with stretching the coverage, I think they actually ran a story about what color socks Clinton Portis likes to wear :rolleyes: ...when the NHL playoffs are on, they put more coverage on football than hockey! Simply pathetic. But anyways thats my rant for the day.

 

Here is another link which shows that Briere "signed" for 1 yr, $5 MIL....weird. I think the hockey news is jumping the gun a bit....HockeyNews.com - Movements

[PASabreFan]

... while the Sabres can't do much to get their revenue higher ...

 

I guess that's the crux of the issue for me. I don't see why the Sabres have to be at the bottom of the league in ticket prices (haven't confirmed that that's true, but I think I read it somewhere -- if not, they have to be near the bottom). I don't understand why revenue cannot go up dramatically if the Sabres keep winning. In the end, my argument has always been that if the Sabres do their part and put a winning team on the ice -- or show a commitment to winning, even if it doesn't pan out every season -- and the fans won't support it, they don't deserve the team. And by support, I mean significantly higher ticket prices and all the rest. Short of that, we're looking at a crappy farm team for the rest of the NHL, and I'd rather see the Sabres move than watch that. You want a farm team? Put an AHL team in Buffalo.

[apuszczalowski]

Here is another link which shows that Briere "signed" for 1 yr, $5 MIL....weird. I think the hockey news is jumping the gun a bit....HockeyNews.com - Movements

Well Technically Briere did sign the deal, he is just waiting right now for Buffalo to sign the deal to make it official. And Buffalo has until 48 hours after their last arbitration meeting with a player to sign it, trade him, or let it go. I doubt they will make anything official until the absolutely have to.

[sabregoats]

I'm pretty sick and tired of all the complaining. I wouldnt call a team that has made it to the conference finals 3 times in the past eight years a farm team for the rest of the NHL. It is true that Buffalo is going to have a hard time keeping players that become overpriced, but that is nothing new. For some reason it seems that GMs in this league are more irresponsible on a whole than in any other league. This is what causes problems for small market teams in the NHL. You have to remember that prior to this last year the NHL was the only leage without any kind of salary cap, and now they have a hard cap wich in theory will keep irresponsible GMs responsible, this may or may not happen depending on how the cap is implemented in future years. If they raise the cap a lot every year than eventually teams like the sabres will again be priced out. Fortunately though, if Regier remains smart and doesnt over pay any single player the sabres will remain fine. This league probably has the most paridy in the playoffs and as demonstrated this year the #1 team's dont always win the CUP. I think the Sabres with Ruff as coach can be a competitive team and make the playoffs most years.

 

It doesn't make any sence to pay a Briere like player this much money for just one year, if it was 5 a year for 4 years I would say fine, but it is not. He will likely be gone next year regardless, so sign him and deal him away at some point this year. We need to establish a core and Briere has shown by not excepting the deal the sabres offered, that he has no interest in being a part of that core. I like Briere and hoped that they would have worked something out, but at this point it seems like he is not going to be long for Buffalo. Now Regier needs to worry about signing the rest of the team, the battle has been lost but the Sabres can still win the war by getting the other arbitration guys signed to multiyear deals before arbitration.

[deluca67]

Deluca, I understand your view on this whole thing, but why do you keep downplaying how well Briere played while he was actually healthy last year? Yes, we don't know how he would've done in the 34 games he missed, but the 48 he did play were very good. I don't think he's worthy of $5 million (yet), but you're going about this the wrong way, making yourself look like an ass.

 

How is that again?

 

Posters are writing how Golisano spends $90 million and is cheap? Regier's team wins 62 games and he sucks as GM? B-Rod has a solid 48 games and the Sabres should break open the vault? And I am the one who looks like an A$$? Really?

 

All year the posters have been saying how great it is that the Sabres are a team without stars. How they play together. How they are young and will be verygood for a long time. Until the offseason hits and they want to the Sabres to become the NY Rangers? Yet I am the one with a problem?

 

Let's play make believe. Let's say B-Rod ends the season with 100 points. He's still not worth $5 million. He's not worth $4 million and I would be hard pressed to say he was worth more then $3 million a year.

 

I do understand that my fellow Sabre fans are starved for a star. Stars happen. You just can't take any player with average numbers, drap him in a big contract and that will make him a star. He has to do it on the ice. For full seasons. Many times over.

 

The Sabres are still a small market team with limited revenues. The team must consist of many equal parts. To try to prop up one player above the rest destroys the team concept last season was built on. ;)

 

So call me what you will. I've been called a lot worse and most of the time they were right. ;)

[shrader]

So call me what you will. I've been called a lot worse and most of the time they were right. ;)

 

I probably worded that poorly. Basically I think you're severely underrating Briere. It seems like you're talking about him as if he's the equivalent of a Curtis Brown or a Vaclav Varada, marginal players at best (randomly picked those names). Clearly Briere is much more than that. But like I said, I agree that he's not worth the $5 million.

 

You also just said that they can't prop up one player above the rest. There is one exception I would make for that rule and that's Ryan Miller if he turn in another strong season. You break the bank for superstar goalies.

[Buffalo Tendencies]

I guess that's the crux of the issue for me. I don't see why the Sabres have to be at the bottom of the league in ticket prices (haven't confirmed that that's true, but I think I read it somewhere -- if not, they have to be near the bottom). I don't understand why revenue cannot go up dramatically if the Sabres keep winning. In the end, my argument has always been that if the Sabres do their part and put a winning team on the ice -- or show a commitment to winning, even if it doesn't pan out every season -- and the fans won't support it, they don't deserve the team. And by support, I mean significantly higher ticket prices and all the rest. Short of that, we're looking at a crappy farm team for the rest of the NHL, and I'd rather see the Sabres move than watch that. You want a farm team? Put an AHL team in Buffalo.

 

 

Right on PA fan. We need to keep this team together and put a run on. Cowboy up Mr. G! This team has done nothing yet, but its there. We were the best team, with a few bad breaks (ouch sorry Tali). This team has CHEMISTRY and TALENT. That boys, doesn't come around too often and can't be bought. Worth 5 mil or not, Bierre was team captain, and his he is needed on the rink and in the room. If the future of this team is to develop young players and then let them go when they get good and rightfully command more money, then the stupid new logo fits this teams future perfrectly.

 

This team needs to get better next year, if you think Carolina is gonna be happy with this years CUP your crazy. I don't think they lost anyone, except Weight. We had a losing record against them in the season and in the playoffs. If getting better is trading and/or losing our up and coming players then I don't see it.

[deluca67]

I probably worded that poorly. Basically I think you're severely underrating Briere. It seems like you're talking about him as if he's the equivalent of a Curtis Brown or a Vaclav Varada, marginal players at best (randomly picked those names). Clearly Briere is much more than that. But like I said, I agree that he's not worth the $5 million.

 

You also just said that they can't prop up one player above the rest. There is one exception I would make for that rule and that's Ryan Miller if he turn in another strong season. You break the bank for superstar goalies.

 

Without question. Goalies are the QB's of hockey. If you have a great one you pay. A great goalie can cover many faults. Look no further then Hasek to prove that.

 

I'm not saying Briere is Curtis Brown or Varada. But he's not Lafontaine or Mogilny either. Nowhere near.

 

Briere is a medium fish in a small pond here in Buffalo. To pay him like he is one of the games top players is insane. He will be making $1.25 less then Pronger. Are you kidding me. If Briere is worth $5 then Pronger is worth $20 a year.

 

Briere is a star in Buffalo. To compare him to the best in hockey? He comes up way short. You can't take only 48 (1.21 ppg) games and ignore the other 354 (.629 ppg). That's every agents dream. ;)

[shrader]

Which is exactly why I think arbitration is going to lead this sport down a bad path. Soon enough we'll be seeing a lot of teams walking away from arbitration deals.

[nfreeman]

Without question. Goalies are the QB's of hockey. If you have a great one you pay. A great goalie can cover many faults. Look no further then Hasek to prove that.

 

I'm not saying Briere is Curtis Brown or Varada. But he's not Lafontaine or Mogilny either. Nowhere near.

 

Briere is a medium fish in a small pond here in Buffalo. To pay him like he is one of the games top players is insane. He will be making $1.25 less then Pronger. Are you kidding me. If Briere is worth $5 then Pronger is worth $20 a year.

 

Briere is a star in Buffalo. To compare him to the best in hockey? He comes up way short. You can't take only 48 (1.21 ppg) games and ignore the other 354 (.629 ppg). That's every agents dream. ;)

 

DeLuca -- I agree with a lot of what you've said about this issue. However, I also think sometimes players turn a corner, grow up, dedicate themselves and make themselves into legit star players. I think this is what happened this year with both Briere and Connolly. The new rules certainly helped, but it mostly came from within.

 

Forget about scoring -- there is a reason Briere is the co-captain. He's tough, he's clutch and he'd go through a wall to win a hockey game. Yes, he came up small in game 7 against Carolina, but he still had a great playoffs. Losing him would be a huge loss, both in terms of lost on-ice production and in terms of the demoralizing effect on the rest of the team.

 

I totally agree that a player ought to put up a few seasons of 90+ points before he gets a $5 million per year deal. But these are the cards we've been dealt -- ie we have a huge, risky, expensive decision to make based on limited information. A lot of us, myself included, think Danny is going to put up those numbers and play with fire in his belly on a consistent basis.

 

Is that worth $5 million per year right now, to this team, in this market, with this budget? Well, that's what we're arguing about. One point to consider is that if we take him for 1 year at $5 million, it is HIGHLY likely that he has a monster year -- 95-105 points and gets over $6 million per year next year for 4-5 years in the UFA market. Remember that it only takes one GM with cash burning a hole in his pocket to give out a deal like that -- this is what happened this year with Havlat and Tanguay. And Danny had a better year than Havlat.

 

With great reluctance I say: give him his $20 million for 4 years. Make a statement to the team and the fans that we mean business. Pay for Connolly as well and lock up Drury at some point this year so we are strong up the middle for the forseeable future. Lose JP and (I hate to say it) Max too if needed to keep the budget viable. Save money this year by unloading Marty and with Teppo's retirement next year.

 

Go Sabres.

[sabregoats]

 

With great reluctance I say: give him his $20 million for 4 years. Make a statement to the team and the fans that we mean business. Pay for Connolly as well and lock up Drury at some point this year so we are strong up the middle for the forseeable future. Lose JP and (I hate to say it) Max too if needed to keep the budget viable. Save money this year by unloading Marty and with Teppo's retirement next year.

 

unfortunately we would have to wait until january 1 in order to sign him to a four year deal, and by that time he may already be worth more that 5 mil per year. I do agree that we should have given him a multi year deal, my fear with the 1 year deal is that we will probably lose him to free agency next year if we arent able to make a deal with him during the season. I think he is going to want to test the UFA waters next year, so we will probably end up losing him no matter what. If we are able to get him to sign a multiyear extension for around 5 mil a year than I say do it.

[Taro T]

unfortunately we would have to wait until january 1 in order to sign him to a four year deal, and by that time he may already be worth more that 5 mil per year. I do agree that we should have given him a multi year deal, my fear with the 1 year deal is that we will probably lose him to free agency next year if we arent able to make a deal with him during the season. I think he is going to want to test the UFA waters next year, so we will probably end up losing him no matter what. If we are able to get him to sign a multiyear extension for around 5 mil a year than I say do it.

While the CBA does stipulate that players can't "enter into an 'extension'" prior to January 1, they MAY be allowed to negotiate prior to January 1. I'd have to read Article 27 (No Circumvention) more closely to say for certain one way or the other.

 

IF they are allowed to negotiate, there is no reason that Danny and Darcy can't have a gentleman's agreement as to what terms they will agree on January 2.

[deluca67]

DeLuca -- I agree with a lot of what you've said about this issue. However, I also think sometimes players turn a corner, grow up, dedicate themselves and make themselves into legit star players. I think this is what happened this year with both Briere and Connolly. The new rules certainly helped, but it mostly came from within.

 

Forget about scoring -- there is a reason Briere is the co-captain. He's tough, he's clutch and he'd go through a wall to win a hockey game. Yes, he came up small in game 7 against Carolina, but he still had a great playoffs. Losing him would be a huge loss, both in terms of lost on-ice production and in terms of the demoralizing effect on the rest of the team.

 

I totally agree that a player ought to put up a few seasons of 90+ points before he gets a $5 million per year deal. But these are the cards we've been dealt -- ie we have a huge, risky, expensive decision to make based on limited information. A lot of us, myself included, think Danny is going to put up those numbers and play with fire in his belly on a consistent basis.

 

Is that worth $5 million per year right now, to this team, in this market, with this budget? Well, that's what we're arguing about. One point to consider is that if we take him for 1 year at $5 million, it is HIGHLY likely that he has a monster year -- 95-105 points and gets over $6 million per year next year for 4-5 years in the UFA market. Remember that it only takes one GM with cash burning a hole in his pocket to give out a deal like that -- this is what happened this year with Havlat and Tanguay. And Danny had a better year than Havlat.

 

With great reluctance I say: give him his $20 million for 4 years. Make a statement to the team and the fans that we mean business. Pay for Connolly as well and lock up Drury at some point this year so we are strong up the middle for the forseeable future. Lose JP and (I hate to say it) Max too if needed to keep the budget viable. Save money this year by unloading Marty and with Teppo's retirement next year.

 

Go Sabres.

 

One 100 point season is worth $6 million a year?

 

Also,

 

Where was the "fire in the belly" during games 4-5 & 7 against the Canes? Didn't Briere admit to not being ready for game four?

 

And again. Briere and Havlat are nowhere near the player Tanguay is. Tanguay is a player who has had more then one good season. Havalt is only being compared because the Hawks were stupid enough to pay him $6 million and it looks like the Sabres will make the same mistake with Briere.

 

I hope B-rod has a 100 point season. If he goes back to normal at around 50-60 points or even 70-80 then the Sabres have just thrown a ton of money away that could have helped the team elsewhere. ;)

[nfreeman]

One 100 point season is worth $6 million a year?

 

Also,

 

Where was the "fire in the belly" during games 4-5 & 7 against the Canes? Didn't Briere admit to not being ready for game four?

 

And again. Briere and Havlat are nowhere near the player Tanguay is. Tanguay is a player who has had more then one good season. Havalt is only being compared because the Hawks were stupid enough to pay him $6 million and it looks like the Sabres will make the same mistake with Briere.

 

I hope B-rod has a 100 point season. If he goes back to normal at around 50-60 points or even 70-80 then the Sabres have just thrown a ton of money away that could have helped the team elsewhere. ;)

 

Again, I can't argue with your points. One 100-pt season is not worth $6 million a year. But whether it's worth it or not isn't really the question. The question is whether someone will give him that much next summer as a UFA, and I think the answer is yes. Based on what's happened this offseason, do you think the answer is no?

 

You are also right that if Danny turns out to be a career 70-pt guy, the sabres will have overpaid if they give him $5 million per year for 4 years. However, we have to make a decision based on the info we have available. We have to decide between, on one hand, taking the risk you describe that he won't be as good as we think he is or, on the other hand, taking the risk that he turns out to be a 90-100 pt guy that gets $6 million a year next year as a UFA, we lose him b/c there is NFW we can pay that much, and it blows a hole in our team both on the ice and in the locker room.

 

Since I think that he's going to have a big year this year and command that kind of deal as a UFA next summer, and that he's a leader and has turned the corner into someone we can count on as a star-level player, I think we should take the $5 million per year risk and lock him up for 4 years if we still can. Could I be wrong about that? absolutely. And it's a lot easier to take those risks with someone else's money. But that's what I would do.

[Swedesessed]

Is Briere a player who can stay healthy for an entire season, and also is Briere a guy who makes other players around him much better? Will the new NHL rules stay intact and allow a player with Briere's talents to florish for 5 years?

 

I ask this question because of Briere is that kind of player who makes almost anyone who plays with him that much better, the Sabres would be able to sign Briere long term and evne if the Sabres had to let a guy like Max go and use a younger, cheaper alternative to play alongside Briere, the Sabres can in the long run spend the same money by doing this rather then losing Briere, and get 2 solid players, have good depth but lose Briere.

 

It is so tough to decide what is the best way to go for the Sabres if you ask me.

 

If I had to make a decision today, Id lock up Briere for 5 years, sending a message to the Sabres fans and players that they mean business.

[X. Benedict]

Here is something I wonder about Danny Briere.

 

How much of his success came because of two factors:

 

1) Buffalo was able to roll 4 lines

 

This past season, by rolling 4 lines, it was incredibly difficult for the opposition to

match lines with Buffalo. I for one, think that if Danny is anchoring the #1 line on

a team that rolls 2 scoring lines and 1 checking line, he would not be nearly as

effective.

 

Here is a little game, put Danny on the Flyers in the place of Peter's Forsberg on

Philly's top line. Can he dominate a game? Could a Sabre defense contain him?

 

In fact I don't think Briere could be a consistent #1 center on any 3 line team.

 

But put him on a team that attacks in waves with relentless speed on 4 lines,

and he is going to pile up points. Not because he is a dominant player, but because

of the aggragate attack of all 4 lines with balanced scoring.

 

2) Buffalo's transition game is based on the Defense.

 

It is well noted here that Briere's scoring dried up at the end of the Carolina series.

Why was that? I think because the break out pass from the defense wasn't there.

There was no scoring on the rush, because there was no rush. When Buffalo had

to resort to dumping and chasing Briere's effectiveness was really limited except when

the Sabres were able to gain possession and let Briere work behind the net.

 

I'm am not posting this to tear Briere down. I only have the perspective that

Buffalo's brand of hockey - the rolling 4 lines - and the fast puck moving defense-

absolutely complimented his style of play and capabilities.

 

I would hate to lose him, but If signing him at $5 million threatens the club's ability

to put 4 balanced lines on the ice, not only is the team diminished, but in all likelyhood

most top defensive pairings could contain him. Just one man's opinion.

 

This is why I think he gets moved out West.

[nfreeman]

Here is something I wonder about Danny Briere.

 

How much of his success came because of two factors:

 

1) Buffalo was able to roll 4 lines

 

This past season, by rolling 4 lines, it was incredibly difficult for the opposition to

match lines with Buffalo. I for one, think that if Danny is anchoring the #1 line on

a team that rolls 2 scoring lines and 1 checking line, he would not be nearly as

effective.

 

Here is a little game, put Danny on the Flyers in the place of Peter's Forsberg on

Philly's top line. Can he dominate a game? Could a Sabre defense contain him?

 

In fact I don't think Briere could be a consistent #1 center on any 3 line team.

 

But put him on a team that attacks in waves with relentless speed on 4 lines,

and he is going to pile up points. Not because he is a dominant player, but because

of the aggragate attack of all 4 lines with balanced scoring.

 

2) Buffalo's transition game is based on the Defense.

 

It is well noted here that Briere's scoring dried up at the end of the Carolina series.

Why was that? I think because the break out pass from the defense wasn't there.

There was no scoring on the rush, because there was no rush. When Buffalo had

to resort to dumping and chasing Briere's effectiveness was really limited except when

the Sabres were able to gain possession and let Briere work behind the net.

 

I'm am not posting this to tear Briere down. I only have the perspective that

Buffalo's brand of hockey - the rolling 4 lines - and the fast puck moving defense-

absolutely complimented his style of play and capabilities.

 

I would hate to lose him, but If signing him at $5 million threatens the club's ability

to put 4 balanced lines on the ice, not only is the team diminished, but in all likelyhood

most top defensive pairings could contain him. Just one man's opinion.

 

This is why I think he gets moved out West.

 

Good points, but I don't think it's fair to compare Danny to Forsberg or other true superstars. Even in the new NHL those are $7-$8 million per year players. Jagr is above $8 million. (full disclosure: Forsberg is at $5.75 million but I think age and wear and tear is factored in there). Sundin gets $7.6 million. McCabe $7.1 million (and he's no superstar). Chara gets $7.5 million. Lecavalier $7.2 million.

 

$5 million is a ton of money, both in the real world and in the sabres' payroll/budget. But it's a solid notch or 2 below true superstar money. I think it's realistic to think that a bona fide cup contender is going to have a couple of guys (I'm including Drury, once his contract is up) at that level -- and that this doesn't necessarily mean depth will be sacrificed. It will certainly mean that we will continue to need to get real contributions from cheaper guys, ie young players and/or cheap FAs.

[LabattBlue]

My thoughts on the award and the possible scenarios...

 

1. The Sabres accept the award, hope that Briere goes crazy knowing that he is playing for a huge contract and the Sabres go on a long Cup run. At the end of the year he is in line for a HUGE FA offer and the Sabres let him walk. Extremely likely.

 

2. Accept the award and trade him before the season with the premise being he is not worth 5 mil. Very likely. Not popular with the fans, but makes sense from a fiscal standpoint.

 

3. Hold on to him and trade him at the deadline(as opposed to letting him walk away at the end of the year) regardless of the teams status at that point in the year. Possible, but very risky in terms of jeopardizing a Cup run

 

4. Sign him to a long term deal after January 1. Very little chance of this happening. If this was going to happen, it would have been before the arbitration process.