Almost time to think about Gavin McKenna?

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Of course. You know my build would be very different to Terry's. McKenna is still the obvious top pick but he has struggled a little this year. Size might be a factor. More Hughes vibes than Celebrini. Maybe Bedard. I think it might take him a few years to make a real impact. 

Belchetz is probably going to go around 3 or 4. Top 5 anyway but that's where we might end up as Calgary looks pretty woeful. Lottery of course could change all that. 

 

Belchetz is interesting. The skating holds him back a little, I've seen 1 game so maybe I'm wrong but it's noted other places. His form is okay but I wish he had better edges. He might get there because 6'5" 225lb 17yr olds aren't fully coordinated. 

He can by physical but I've seen it more used on walls to protect pucks than like a Tkachuk just hitting everyone... although he does hit. His ideas look high end but execution leaves something to be desired. Drives the net and has a hard release. 

The question is, is he Brady Tkachuk or Alex Tuch? 

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So it seems McKenna isn’t quite on the same level. Do you have him closer to a Power/RNH type first overall or a Celebrini/Bedard type? 

Oh God no. He's certainly above Power and if he wasn't, 3 guys would have overtaken him (Stenberg. Verhoeff, and Belchetz).

He's imo a half step below Bedard/Celebrini but it's still early, so idk yet. He's lacking a 200ft game, fully. His offensive ideas though and skill-set are on par with Celebrini. McKenna creates offense. 

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

NO MORE TANKING!!!!!

I want them to start winning. Or at the very least competing with some consistency, which means, START WINNING!!!!!

Thank you for letting me get that out, my apologies to the neighbors.

Sure, everyone wants that. But you can’t just ignore what’s happening while the season crumbles. And for the record, no one mentioned tanking.

[Crusader1969]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh God no. He's certainly above Power and if he wasn't, 3 guys would have overtaken him (Stenberg. Verhoeff, and Belchetz).

He's imo a half step below Bedard/Celebrini but it's still early, so idk yet. He's lacking a 200ft game, fully. His offensive ideas though and skill-set are on par with Celebrini. McKenna creates offense. 

Would he help the PP? 

[inkman]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

NO MORE TANKING!!!!!

I want them to start winning. Or at the very least competing with some consistency, which means, START WINNING!!!!!

Thank you for letting me get that out, my apologies to the neighbors.

It’s not a tank when you just suck 

[pi2000]

The issue with McKenna, which I brought up a few months ago, was my concern that he wouldn't produce at a high level in NCAA hockey against 22, 23, 24 year olds.

Still think he'll be an excellent pro, but he's not in McDavid's class.... or Celebrini.  I see more of a Clayton Keller watching him play.   

[Flashsabre]

Matthews and Stolarz both injured in loss to Bruins. Leafs might be challenging Sabres at the bottom this season.

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, sabremike said:

So now everyone wants to lose out for an 18% chance to draft a would-be savior who right now is having red flags pop up on a daily basis and isn't anywhere as good in college as Jack was?

Not everyone.  

Playing to lose makes you a loser. 

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

The issue with McKenna, which I brought up a few months ago, was my concern that he wouldn't produce at a high level in NCAA hockey against 22, 23, 24 year olds.

Still think he'll be an excellent pro, but he's not in McDavid's class.... or Celebrini.  I see more of a Clayton Keller watching him play.   

You don’t tank for Clayton Keller. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Belchetz is interesting. The skating holds him back a little, I've seen 1 game so maybe I'm wrong but it's noted other places. His form is okay but I wish he had better edges. He might get there because 6'5" 225lb 17yr olds aren't fully coordinated. 

He can by physical but I've seen it more used on walls to protect pucks than like a Tkachuk just hitting everyone... although he does hit. His ideas look high end but execution leaves something to be desired. Drives the net and has a hard release. 

The question is, is he Brady Tkachuk or Alex Tuch? 

Matt Tkachuk. Only bigger. Definitely not Tuch. A little like Martone maybe. 

I know the skating critique and a lot of the bigger guys get that critique. It's an over rated stat imo. It's not like he's a bad skater, just not the best. Lots of guys who people said didn't skate well enough make it big. Look at Geekie on the Bruins. People said he'd never be more than a 4th liner due to poor skating. Last time I checked he was tied for most goals in the league. They adapt. 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Matt Tkachuk. Only bigger. Definitely not Tuch. A little like Martone maybe. 

I know the skating critique and a lot of the bigger guys get that critique. It's an over rated stat imo. It's not like he's a bad skater, just not the best. Lots of guys who people said didn't skate well enough make it big. Look at Geekie on the Bruins. People said he'd never be more than a 4th liner due to poor skating. Last time I checked he was tied for most goals in the league. They adapt. 

It's not a stat. 

His skating is better than Geekie at the same age. Really it's just his edge work. I don't think he's dynamic in his rushing either... but if you need a guy to dig pucks out or to take pucks from the wall to the HD area,  Belchetz can do that. 

Still super early in the process so we'll see how he develops. He's a guy I wish went ncaa. I wanna know what happens when he's not 5 inches and 40lbs heavier than most ppl on the ice. He's in the top 5 for me right now but again, I don't really like to make a list until January. 

[kas23]

11 hours ago, pi2000 said:

The issue with McKenna, which I brought up a few months ago, was my concern that he wouldn't produce at a high level in NCAA hockey against 22, 23, 24 year olds.

Still think he'll be an excellent pro, but he's not in McDavid's class.... or Celebrini.  I see more of a Clayton Keller watching him play.   

But, shouldn’t this be expected? He’s 17 and most 17 year-olds are still in high school. 

[PerreaultForever]

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It's not a stat. 

His skating is better than Geekie at the same age. Really it's just his edge work. I don't think he's dynamic in his rushing either... but if you need a guy to dig pucks out or to take pucks from the wall to the HD area,  Belchetz can do that. 

Still super early in the process so we'll see how he develops. He's a guy I wish went ncaa. I wanna know what happens when he's not 5 inches and 40lbs heavier than most ppl on the ice. He's in the top 5 for me right now but again, I don't really like to make a list until January. 

The NCAA thing is very valid. This is why McKenna is not exactly tearing it up this year as well. 

[LGR4GM]

WGR mentioned McKenna a bit this morning and they did say something I like. McKenna has some of the best hands/handling ability ever. He can do that in stride and at speed but he can also do it to take pucks away from the walls. The issue is that some of his ideas and execution is not there and wont work in the NHL. You can use your hands to go around a guy or to open up space, but you can't use it to deke an entire team. He also isn't strong enough which is a major issue right now. 

ALL that said, McKenna in November is not going to be McKenna in April. Same thing applies to Stenberg and Belchetz and Lawrence, and Verhoeff. 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

WGR mentioned McKenna a bit this morning and they did say something I like. McKenna has some of the best hands/handling ability ever. He can do that in stride and at speed but he can also do it to take pucks away from the walls. The issue is that some of his ideas and execution is not there and wont work in the NHL. You can use your hands to go around a guy or to open up space, but you can't use it to deke an entire team. He also isn't strong enough which is a major issue right now. 

ALL that said, McKenna in November is not going to be McKenna in April. Same thing applies to Stenberg and Belchetz and Lawrence, and Verhoeff. 

So he's a fast Mittelstadt?

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

So he's a fast Mittelstadt?

He's got better hands than Mitts but... I could see some similarities. Again, I have seen like 2 games so idk if I have a good feel for McKenna yet.

[LGR4GM]

and one of those games was Michigan and Penn State basically got owned with McKenna the only one doing much of anything. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

and one of those games was Michigan and Penn State basically got owned with McKenna the only one doing much of anything. 

Michigan or Michigan State?  State is ranked 1 in the country and just beat PSU (at the time #3) 2 in a row in the past week.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Michigan or Michigan State?  State is ranked 1 in the country and just beat PSU (at the time #3) 2 in a row in the past week.

Sorry, Michigan State. 

[LTS]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

WGR mentioned McKenna a bit this morning and they did say something I like. McKenna has some of the best hands/handling ability ever. He can do that in stride and at speed but he can also do it to take pucks away from the walls. The issue is that some of his ideas and execution is not there and wont work in the NHL. You can use your hands to go around a guy or to open up space, but you can't use it to deke an entire team. He also isn't strong enough which is a major issue right now. 

ALL that said, McKenna in November is not going to be McKenna in April. Same thing applies to Stenberg and Belchetz and Lawrence, and Verhoeff. 

So.. I saw the Mitts statement.  Is this more like early Jack Eichel who kept trying to do things that did not work?  Back then I called it his arrogance. Because it had always worked before he was slow in understanding that the margin for error shrunk along with the gap in talent.  So he had to learn how to apply his elevated skill differently to the NHL game.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

So.. I saw the Mitts statement.  Is this more like early Jack Eichel who kept trying to do things that did not work?  Back then I called it his arrogance. Because it had always worked before he was slow in understanding that the margin for error shrunk along with the gap in talent.  So he had to learn how to apply his elevated skill differently to the NHL game.

The learning part is really important. Understanding how to use your skills within the next level of competition but also to develop them further and gain new ones. McKenna has a great base, he's under the microscope though and that won't change.