Trade : Conor Timmins and Isaac Belliveau from the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for Connor Clifton and the 39th overall pick in the 2025 NHL Draft.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

Half a year is a pretty tough prediction and definitely is pessimistic.  Even if half a year happens, you don't think he'll score any goals?

Oh no I'm sure he will score some. Might even have a high scoring stretch, but I don't think anything will be radically different from what we've already seen from him in Ottawa. 

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

The Tage thing was more for sake of discussion than literal.

That said, I’m not really a “top six” kinda guy when it comes to lines.

I think Doan is skilled enough to be the grinder on a skill line if needed.

Forgive me if you’ve read this before:

• Kulich AHL 123 53/41/94
• Doan AHL 104 40/38/78
• Kulich NHL 63 15/9/24
• Doan NHL 62 12/16/28

Kulich was the 28th pick in the 2022 draft, Doan the 37th a year earlier.

The popular wisdom that Kulich is way ahead of Doan isn’t reality. They’re at similar levels in their development.

Oh I know. I like Kulich. Always have if you've noticed, and as usual I do think we are rushing him. 

[Archie Lee]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Hmm. Now there's an interesting question. Are Kulich and Doan at a similar point in their development?

Only thing I'll add now is Doan is 2yrs older than Kulich. April 04 v. February 02. 

It is interesting. There are two approaches one could take to these details, both quite reasonable. 
 

1.) We are sleeping a bit on Doan. He is far from a throw-in. He has the potential to be a force in the middle-six as soon as this year and may have much higher upside than fans are generally crediting for. 

And/Or

2.) We are probably higher on Kulich than the rest of the league is. The idea that he is a near untouchable piece is a bit absurd.  The way to get better is to do what Utah did and trade two pretty good players with upside for a player who has already figured it out.  We should have packaged Kulich in a deal for the better player, rather than deal the better player for a couple of guys with upside.  

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

It is interesting. There are two approaches one could take to these details, both quite reasonable. 
 

1.) We are sleeping a bit on Doan. He is far from a throw-in. He has the potential to be a force in the middle-six as soon as this year and may have much higher upside than fans are generally crediting for. 

And/Or

2.) We are probably higher on Kulich than the rest of the league is. The idea that he is a near untouchable piece is a bit absurd.  The way to get better is to do what Utah did and trade two pretty good players with upside for a player who has already figured it out.  We should have packaged Kulich in a deal for the better player, rather than deal the better player for a couple of guys with upside.  

 

Both can be true and probably are.

As far as Buffalo goes, it’s kinda Deja vu all over again.

Instead of crossing our fingers that Cozens, Krebs, Peterka and Quinn can buttress a legit middle six, we’re doing the same for Benson, Doan, Kulich and Quinn.

Maybe Norris, Zucker, McLeod and Greenway are better insulation than Mittelstadt, Skinner, Olofsson and Okposo?

Or maybe hope is, once again, the strategy in Buffalo

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Both can be true and probably are.

As far as Buffalo goes, it’s kinda Deja vu all over again.

Instead of crossing our fingers that Cozens, Krebs, Peterka and Quinn can buttress a legit middle six, we’re doing the same for Benson, Doan, Kulich and Quinn.

Maybe Norris, Zucker, McLeod and Greenway are better insulation than Mittelstadt, Skinner, Olofsson and Okposo?

Or maybe hope is, once again, the strategy in Buffalo

Though the rest of what you say may be true (and hopefully is), hope once again IS the strategy in Buffalo.

[7+6=13]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh no I'm sure he will score some. Might even have a high scoring stretch, but I don't think anything will be radically different from what we've already seen from him in Ottawa. 

I comprehend what you're saying as it relates to Norris vs Norris.  To say the total team difference is losing JJ for Kesselring isn't accurate - factoring in Norris is 100% part of the discussion.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

I comprehend what you're saying as it relates to Norris vs Norris.  To say the total team difference is losing JJ for Kesselring isn't accurate - factoring in Norris is 100% part of the discussion.

Well then you have to factor Cozens back in too. 

[7+6=13]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well then you have to factor Cozens back in too. 

No you don't.  We absolutely got a large sample size of being without him where data is clear.

[PerreaultForever]

46 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

No you don't.  We absolutely got a large sample size of being without him where data is clear.

No but you can't look at the roster and say Norris gives us goals to make up for Peterka. That still leaves you filling a forward spot and either Kulich or Benson has to step up and emerge big time. I just think there are too many too young players in our top 6 to make any kind of headway. 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

No but you can't look at the roster and say Norris gives us goals to make up for Peterka. That still leaves you filling a forward spot and either Kulich or Benson has to step up and emerge big time. I just think there are too many too young players in our top 6 to make any kind of headway. 

I don't know on what lines Quinn, Kulich and Benson will end up playing on. Even if one, two or three of these players end up on the top two lines, or not, I expect all three of them to have more goals than they had last year. Will these players make any headway? (Your question.) Of course they will. The issue then becomes how much so? I'm counting on Quinn to make the biggest scoring leap. (Recognize many others don't believe so.) The issue to focus on is not the goal scoring. The more substantive issue relates to the goaltending and blue line unit. I'm more comfortable with our blue line than with our goaltending. That will be the determining issue for success or not. 

[7+6=13]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

No but you can't look at the roster and say Norris gives us goals to make up for Peterka. That still leaves you filling a forward spot and either Kulich or Benson has to step up and emerge big time. I just think there are too many too young players in our top 6 to make any kind of headway. 

Yes you can.  Norris didn't play last year.  That's precisely what we can do.

[kas23]

15 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Yes you can.  Norris didn't play last year.  That's precisely what we can do.

But Cozens did. It’s just a cleaner comparison to look at the production differential between Cozens and Norris. I still think we benefit more because Norris’s baseline is probably better peak Cozens, with the huge caveat of health. 

[LGR4GM]

The question is was Cozens really a drag on the defense or was that just because the team overall was bad? 

[dudacek]

I think anyone watching knows how often plays died on Cozens stick and structure broke down because of it.

 

[French Collection]

Just now, dudacek said:

I think anyone watching knows how often plays died on Cozens stick and structure broke down because of it.

 

I think Team Canada used him well in the World Championship when he got 9 goals in 10 games. He was playing wing and used his speed to get open for a playmaking centre to feed him.
If he carries the mail it becomes return to sender.

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, French Collection said:

I think Team Canada used him well in the World Championship when he got 9 goals in 10 games. He was playing wing and used his speed to get open for a playmaking centre to feed him.
If he carries the mail it becomes return to sender.

I really think he did well in those tournaments because they are less structured. You are playing against, and with, teams that have a total of a few weeks to get to know each other and implement systems.   Not only that but in the NHL, the D-partners (and lines for that matter) you are playing against sometimes have years together, know what they are supposed to do and know what each other will do.  If there is any advanced scouting of opposition in those tournaments, its a fraction of what the NHL does.

In short, compared to the NHL game, those 'slap the team together' tournaments are more a form of pond hockey, throw the puck out there and play some hockey! (not quite, but compared to the structure of the NHL.

Cozens is going to do better in an environment where you don't get punished for mistakes as much, where positioning isn't as important. Where when he has some major holes in his game advanced scouting isn't there to drill it into the opponents head how to exploit it.

I think in an NHL where your teamates were different every year (like re-draft the teams every year), there was minimal scouting, and little to no training camp/practice....in a league like that Cozens very well might be one of the top 50 or at least 100 players in the entire league. But that is not the NHL....but it is a lot more like the World championship tournament.

[Archie Lee]

31 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I really think he did well in those tournaments because they are less structured. You are playing against, and with, teams that have a total of a few weeks to get to know each other and implement systems.   Not only that but in the NHL, the D-partners (and lines for that matter) you are playing against sometimes have years together, know what they are supposed to do and know what each other will do.  If there is any advanced scouting of opposition in those tournaments, its a fraction of what the NHL does.

In short, compared to the NHL game, those 'slap the team together' tournaments are more a form of pond hockey, throw the puck out there and play some hockey! (not quite, but compared to the structure of the NHL.

Cozens is going to do better in an environment where you don't get punished for mistakes as much, where positioning isn't as important. Where when he has some major holes in his game advanced scouting isn't there to drill it into the opponents head how to exploit it.

I think in an NHL where your teamates were different every year (like re-draft the teams every year), there was minimal scouting, and little to no training camp/practice....in a league like that Cozens very well might be one of the top 50 or at least 100 players in the entire league. But that is not the NHL....but it is a lot more like the World championship tournament.

Seems like a supremely talented individual who needs an organization that gives him the right linemates and puts him in a position to be successful doing what he does well.

[steveoath]

Not sure if this goes here or not:

But sure seems like being able to defend would put sabres in a good spot.