Muel Presser

[Buffalonill]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You don't think the guy with 6 years left on his deal that was signed by Kevyn Adams and is exceedingly well liked in that room while being a useful NHL defender will be in Buffalo next year? Odd. 

Seeing how they got Byram you can't keep everyone .

 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

Seeing how they got Byram you can't keep everyone .

 

Why can't they keep Dahlin, Power, Muel, and Byram? Guess toss in Clifton too. Those are the only 5 defenders they have under contract for next year, so why are they trading Samuelsson? 

[dudacek]

53 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My issue with all of these, they are focused on Granato. "We didn't play well enough for Granato to keep his job. Donny would still be here if we were better" and that isn't the f-ing point. The Sabres missed the playoffs, again. They weren't good enough to make it to the playoffs again. Donny is collateral damage and the fact the players only could focus on that shows their lack of maturity IMPO. That coupled with the idea they all seem to have assumed Granato would just be back next year is interesting. 

Only other thing I will say is there was clearly a team meeting of some kind after Granato was let go in which "it is on us" "gotta practice the right way" and "next head coach needs experience" were the talking points because they all spewed the same thing. I am not saying they don't necessarily think or believe it but it was a little too uniform. 

 

Too lazy to scroll through the tape, but I'm pretty sure Adams outright said in his presser that was the message he was going to give to the players when he met with them.

 

20 minutes ago, shrader said:

Accountability was the first word to immediately come to mind as I opened this thread. Even if players do want some veteran leadership brought in, I don’t want to hear them say it. I want to hear exactly what is said here, “we need to step up”. Adding and players stepping up, the two aren’t mutually exclusive,  it there’s only one side that a player can take care of. 

I agree with this, but I thinking most of this discussion has been about looking for nuance in the comments of 20-something hockey players that probably isn't there..

I've only watched day 1 interviews, but Muel was far from the only one to say 'we need to step up'. I also think "we need to be held accountable" is just another way of saying the same thing.

The theme is you holding yourself and others to a higher standard and everyone else doing the same.

[Buffalonill]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why can't they keep Dahlin, Power, Muel, and Byram? Guess toss in Clifton too. Those are the only 5 defenders they have under contract for next year, so why are they trading Samuelsson? 

You have to pay JJ , quinn  soon they will likely be 5-6 m and Byram 4-5m 

Do you really want that much money on the blueline? 

 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

You have to pay JJ , quinn  soon they will likely be 5-6 m and Byram 4-5m 

Do you really want that much money on the blueline? 

 

And you don't have to pay any of those players this summer and if you do it doesn't matter because those contracts don't kick in until next year

No, I wouldn't have paid Power like he did and I would have been justified for that. I don't a scenario where they trade Mattias Samuelsson this summer. There is no real reason too. 

Sabres have 23mil in cap space this offseason. No reason to trade a useful NHL defender when the team is trying to get better. Don't need more picks and prospects. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

You have to pay JJ , quinn  soon they will likely be 5-6 m and Byram 4-5m 

Do you really want that much money on the blueline? 

 

We are 4 years from having to pay JJ and Quinn that kind money.

If their play forces that to come sooner, that's not exactly a problem.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

We are 4 years from having to pay JJ and Quinn that kind money.

If their play forces that to come sooner, that's not exactly a problem.

4? If they track the way I think, 4 years from now they will be worth 8mil a year. 

[shrader]

41 minutes ago, SDS said:

I brought this up in the past, but I’ll drop it here again. Accountability is this amorphous term that people throw around that means something different in everyone’s head.

No one ever defines what they think it means, what that actually looks like in practice, and how it would manifest itself in an exact situation that happened.

I tried to be clear on what that means to me. I want the guy who wants to work to be better as opposed to the guy who cries out for help. There’s nothing wrong with asking for help, it just doesn’t do any good doing so in a press conference. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I don’t believe they need to be the best players as long as there are enough of them to have critical mass in the room.  One or two bottom of the roster guys doesn’t create enough influence to matter.  A handful of players sprinkled throughout the lineup does.

This team’s biggest mistake over the last decade has been the decision to cheap out on leadership and depend on 1 or 2 leaders, generally bottom of the lineup role players.  ROR may have been the only exception.

Yeah, I guess it can be either. A guy who is a top guy, or maybe a few guys who are at least not bottom of the roster guys.

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

4? If they track the way I think, 4 years from now they will be worth 8mil a year. 

Hopefully.

The 4 is coming from the fact they have played 2 years of the 7 they need to accrue prior to UFA status.

If the Sabre wish, they can choose to take the Sam Reinhart path of a 2- or 3-year bridge next summer, rather than signing them to term.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Sadly I don't think samuelsson will be in buffalo next year 

Unless he gets another injury, and it becomes even more clear that is health/durability means he just won't have much of a career...unless that happens, I don't see why he wouldn't be here.

[Buffalonill]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Hopefully.

The 4 is coming from the fact they have played 2 years of the 7 they need to accrue prior to UFA status.

If the Sabre wish, they can choose to take the Sam Reinhart path of a 2- or 3-year bridge next summer, rather than signing them to term.

 

[LabattBlue]

I wonder if 2024-2025 results in another season of him playing in ~50% of the games, will result in them putting him on the trade block?

[HoosierDaddy]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

4? If they track the way I think, 4 years from now they will be worth 8mil a year. 

When I come over here from TBD, I have to adjust my salary goggles. 

[Cranky old man]

Availability is this kid’s downfall. I would not oppose packaging him with a draft pick  for an established, reliable player or two. Find a deal Kev. 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I wonder if 2024-2025 results in another season of him playing in ~50% of the games, will result in them putting him on the trade block?

Possibly. But the other side of it is, if he has another season of playing only half a season (or less) what will his value be? And who is going to want a guy signed to a long term deal that every single year can't play half the season.

The same reason Buffalo might want to get rid of him would be the same reason another team won't want that long term deal on a guy who is injured just about EVERY year.  Maybe if the Sabres retained some salary, but if you are retaining salary, you might as well just keep him here as a guy with potential you HOPE gets healthier.

[xzy89c1]

4 hours ago, SDS said:

Why would you hear this? Who is the person who’s going to divulge this to the media? Kyle? The player he’s talking to?

IT always filters out that so and sao was approached by a team leader. Either because other players are happy it happened or the player who was approached complains about it.

31 minutes ago, Cranky old man said:

Availability is this kid’s downfall. I would not oppose packaging him with a draft pick  for an established, reliable player or two. Find a deal Kev. 

I do wonder how much was coaching. HE needs a ton of coaching to meet his potential

[msw2112]

Don't read too much into the post-season locker room interviews.  These guys are hockey players and kids in their 20's.  They're not polished public speakers.  They're shooting from the hip, trying to answer difficult questions when they're a) embarrassed that they failed to make the playoffs and b) don't want to totally throw their former coach, who they like, under the bus.

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

My issue with all of these, they are focused on Granato. "We didn't play well enough for Granato to keep his job. Donny would still be here if we were better" and that isn't the f-ing point. The Sabres missed the playoffs, again. They weren't good enough to make it to the playoffs again. Donny is collateral damage and the fact the players only could focus on that shows their lack of maturity IMPO. That coupled with the idea they all seem to have assumed Granato would just be back next year is interesting. 

Only other thing I will say is there was clearly a team meeting of some kind after Granato was let go in which "it is on us" "gotta practice the right way" and "next head coach needs experience" were the talking points because they all spewed the same thing. I am not saying they don't necessarily think or believe it but it was a little too uniform. 

And they seemed to go out of their way to defend Granato only once the fans turned on him. Once it was a matter of protecting one of “their own” from the outside. Highlighting and drawing an active divide between the players and the fans. Which, as you point out, seemed to manifest also in aim (players more concerned with Granato fallout, fans with playoffs fallout), and add in the stick salute fiasco for seasoning

They are focused on their process while we are sitting at 13 years, it’s sort of the most I’ve ever noticed a divide between the fanbase and the players and it’s pretty troubling. But perhaps recent quotes point to a renewed focus. It’ll need to come from the GM though both in messaging and roster supplementation 

Edited April 19 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And they seemed to go out of their way to defend Granato only once the fans turned on him. Once it was a matter of protecting one of “their own” from the outside. Highlighting and drawing an active divide between the players and the fans. Which, as you point out, seemed to manifest also in aim (players more concerned with Granato fallout, fans with playoffs fallout), and add in the stick salute fiasco for seasoning

They are focused on their process while we are sitting at 13 years, it’s sort of the most I’ve ever noticed a divide between the fanbase and the players and it’s pretty troubling. But perhaps recent quotes point to a renewed focus. It’ll need to come from the GM though both in messaging and roster supplementation 

I think they need to pick a rostered player under contract and part of the "core" and make a hockey trade. Send the message that this isn't a beach club. 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

They should have made the playoffs. Poor coaching account for more than the difference in us missing out. If we had an average power play we would have made playoffs. Never won 4 games in a row. Woefully unprepared most nights. Each night in NHL you prepare for your opponent. What matchups will work and which will not. What to Watch for in their breakout, in your d zone etc...  We were not doing that. If you watched closely at home, granato would not utilize last change. He would change at same time or before the other team. Idiocy. At least make it seem like you are concerned with other team and matchups. 

Other teams were prepared for us. Forecheck hard because as soon as d gets possession sabres forwards leave the zone. pressure d into bad pass and watch for d to d behind the net. If you are carrying puck from neutral zone hold it as any backchecking is occurring they go to wrong player and the D will back up into the goalie before they will step up.

Other teams easily pushed us around and when that happened team disappeared. There was one game I think against Pittsburgh where we started off great and had a lead. Pittsburgh started getting involved after whistle and pushing sabres around. Game was over then. We wilted.

Can we please put to bed the idea Okposo was some great leader? He has barely seen the playoffs in his career. He was a mediocre player his entire run in buffalo. You never heard anything about him taking players aside and letting them know play was unacceptable. 

Agree with most of your post, but the “would have made the playoffs with a league avg PP” remains a silly narrative imo that’s taken off and ran for the fences. At least the certainty it’s stated with 

league avg pp nets us 13 goals over 82 games. We missed the playoffs by a whopping 7 points, and there’s a 4 team separation.

i know we need to conveniently fail to grant any of these other teams any improvement, while we grant ourselves a fixed pp for some reason, but even in that case it’s incredibly far from guaranteed merely fixing the PP to average bridges the gap

we won half our games. Mathematically speaking half of those 13 goals are going to be spread over games we already won. So 6 or 7 goals? Maybe 3 or 4 present in games we lost by a solitary goal and MAYBE we then win those games in OT or whatever

It’s maybe 3 wins. We are out by 7 points. It’s a mineable (and necessary) area for improvement but if we operate as if it’s the only variable we need to fix we won’t make the playoffs, or at least won’t be putting ourselves in a very safe position to do so 

 

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think they need to pick a rostered player under contract and part of the "core" and make a hockey trade. Send the message that this isn't a beach club. 

Mitts was beloved, the leading scorer and full-fledged member of the blinding light brigade.

Not sure people don’t consider his trade exactly that.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Mitts was beloved, the leading scorer and full-fledged member of the blinding light brigade.

Not sure people don’t consider his trade exactly that.

Wasn't signed long term and the writing was on the wall for a long time he might be traded. I mean someone that has term left and is still here. 

[Thorny]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Mitts was beloved, the leading scorer and full-fledged member of the blinding light brigade.

Not sure people don’t consider his trade exactly that.

I dunno if Casey was in the BLB

I believe I coined the term but I could be wrong 

lol ya running a search it’s me referring to the “blinding light” of the youth a hundred times (I must have specifically been quoting Adams) and then you adding “brigade” to it and me and you alternating back and forth using the term for now 3 years haha 

i suppose Casey counts if it’s been that long 

Edited April 19 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

They should have made the playoffs. Poor coaching account for more than the difference in us missing out. If we had an average power play we would have made playoffs. Never won 4 games in a row. Woefully unprepared most nights. Each night in NHL you prepare for your opponent. What matchups will work and which will not. What to Watch for in their breakout, in your d zone etc...  We were not doing that. If you watched closely at home, granato would not utilize last change. He would change at same time or before the other team. Idiocy. At least make it seem like you are concerned with other team and matchups. 

Other teams were prepared for us. Forecheck hard because as soon as d gets possession sabres forwards leave the zone. pressure d into bad pass and watch for d to d behind the net. If you are carrying puck from neutral zone hold it as any backchecking is occurring they go to wrong player and the D will back up into the goalie before they will step up.

Other teams easily pushed us around and when that happened team disappeared. There was one game I think against Pittsburgh where we started off great and had a lead. Pittsburgh started getting involved after whistle and pushing sabres around. Game was over then. We wilted.

Can we please put to bed the idea Okposo was some great leader? He has barely seen the playoffs in his career. He was a mediocre player his entire run in buffalo. You never heard anything about him taking players aside and letting them know play was unacceptable. 

Coaching was not good enough but I think we learned two more important things. 

1.   The team severely lacks internal leadership - including KO, ZG, and EJ (who had very little skin in the game).   Players need to lead themselves, and practice hard because it the right thing to do, and get themselves ready to play at puck drop of period 1.  This is not all on the coaches.  Players leading players is not simply not there.  It is more than pep talks, it is about not letting anyone down.  It is about having leaders that are not afraid to call out their buddies.  

2.  Our GM saw the problems and did not address them.   Adams talked about their work in camp, the "arrogance" he detected, his lack of moves in the off season, his lack of moves in the regular season, the teams issues with handling controversy, the consistent inability to be ready to go at puck drop, and players not being pushed hard or held accountable by coaches and other players.  

He saw a country club and he saw arrogance and he didn't do anything. 

Now he is allegedly looking for a taskmaster type coach that will fix it.  

Do what McDermott did.  Take away the games, the music, and any the distractions in the facility.  Work is work.  Put up signs -  Commit to being better.  Stop making videos.  The PR is the hockey game and winning at home, and whatever else they do within the community.  I know I don't care how funny they are.  It is time for this group to grow up.