Mango Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) On 3/6/2024 at 2:11 PM, MISabresFan said: Interestingly, DG and LR have similar winning percentages in Buffalo. Lindy is 571-432-78 in Buffalo with a .560 P%. https://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/ruffli01c.html ***** Ranato is 112-118-26 with a .488 P%. His best season is .555. His career year is worse than Ruff's average year. https://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/granado01c.html I think there is a chance that you just made this up. EDIT: Aparently D-O-N-G Ranato gets censored. What a bummer. Such a great opportunity there. Edited March 8 by Mango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISabresFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 23 hours ago, PASabreFan said: Uh, no. Also Lindy has a better record in the playoffs. Uh Yes! Count your hershey bars...lol Hasek makes any team a playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISabresFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, Mango said: Lindy is 571-432-78 in Buffalo with a .560 P%. https://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/ruffli01c.html ***** Ranato is 112-118026 with a .488 P%. His best season is .555. His career year is worse than Ruff's average year. https://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/granado01c.html I think there is a chance that you just made this up. EDIT: Aparently D-O-N-G Ranato gets censored. What a bummer. Such a great opportunity there. I copyied the info from Hockeydb. Winning percentage = Games Won divided by Games Played. It is in the spreadsheet and can compare to Hockedb. Why is it so hard to think DG and Lindy have the a similar wining percentage? Dg's numberes will change alot because of the small sample size. As a wise person told me, perception and reality are two different things. That is why we have data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISabresFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 10 minutes ago, Mango said: Lindy is 571-432-78 in Buffalo with a .560 P%. https://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/ruffli01c.html ***** Ranato is 112-118-26 with a .488 P%. His best season is .555. His career year is worse than Ruff's average year. https://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/granado01c.html I think there is a chance that you just made this up. EDIT: Aparently D-O-N-G Ranato gets censored. What a bummer. Such a great opportunity there. Games played is off by 84 for LR Not sure why the difference in the actual numbers between the two sites. 80 somthing off for games played for Ruff and 20 something for Donnie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Just now, MISabresFan said: I copyied the info from Hockeydb. Winning percentage = Games Won divided by Games Played. It is in the spreadsheet and can compare to Hockedb. Why is it so hard to think DG and Lindy have the a similar wining percentage? Dg's numberes will change alot because of the small sample size. As a wise person told me, perception and reality are two different things. That is why we have data. Dooooooood. How can you look two records where one coach won more games than the lost and the other coach lost more games than they won and go "Seeeeeee they have the same win percentage". Lindy: 571-510 (571 wins/1081 games), W% .528 Meatballs: 112-144, (112win/256 games) W% .437 For W% you have to move OTL to L. Otherwise you have to use P%. I don't know what you did, but you didn't math properly....like at all. They don't have the same W% or the same P% and it isn't particularly close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 10 minutes ago, MISabresFan said: If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would all be president of the team and won 7 stanley cups... Look how much Talent he lost because of a "Budget" 2005-06 after season lost -JB Dumont -Mike Grier -Jay McKee 2006-07 after season lost -Chris Drury -Daniel Briere -Dainius Zubrus 2007-08 after season lost (still got the team to 41 wins ) Brian Campbell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISabresFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 5 minutes ago, Mango said: Dooooooood. How can you look two records where one coach won more games than the lost and the other coach lost more games than they won and go "Seeeeeee they have the same win percentage". Lindy: 571-510 (571 wins/1081 games), W% .528 Meatballs: 112-144, (112win/256 games) W% .437 For W% you have to move OTL to L. Otherwise you have to use P%. I don't know what you did, but you didn't math properly....like at all. They don't have the same W% or the same P% and it isn't particularly close. Ties are not considered in "winning" percentage. It is based on WINS. Just now, Buffalonill said: Look how much Talent he lost because of a "Budget" 2005-06 after season lost -JB Dumont -Mike Grier -Jay McKee 2006-07 after season lost -Chris Drury -Daniel Briere -Dainius Zubrus 2007-08 after season lost (still got the team to 41 wins ) Brian Campbell I understand, compare those teams to the one that is on the ice now. Which one would you choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 21 hours ago, LTS said: But.. that was then. How often do coaches (any of them) engage in that behavior today? (not the changing of the lines.. they all do that). Yesteryear doesn't win today. last year everyone was all on about how great the Devils were and how they turned it around so fast... fast forward to now. Brunette is the notable difference. Brunette, yes. And... They replaced Severson (age 28) and Graves (27) with Luke Hughes (20) and Simon Nemec (19). Both kids have gotten points, and L.Hughes is skating the most minutes on the team, but they're not sturdy, dependable defensemen yet. Add to that Dougie Hamilton played only 20 games before tearing a pectoral muscle. Last year, they also got career seasons from the forwards (and lots of health). Their top 4 centers combined to miss 9 games (J. Hughes, Hischier, McLeod, Haula). This season, Hughes has already missed 15, Hischier 10, and McLeod 15. Combined with the weaker defense, the goalies have collectively gone from .908 sv% last season to .891 sv% this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, MISabresFan said: Ties are not considered in "winning" percentage. It is based on WINS. I understand, compare those teams to the one that is on the ice now. Which one would you choose? Obviously the one's back then. This team has zero identity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: Look how much Talent he lost because of a "Budget" Go back earlier. Peca. And by not paying him, Hasek. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said: Go back earlier. Peca. And by not paying him, Hasek. Yeah that too . People might not agree, but I think hiring ruff would bring a much needed culture change Of this loser mantelity and players accepting it like its normal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 I think that Lindy's best coaching job in Buffalo was getting the 2010-1 team to the playoffs. The team has numerous long-term injuries to key players, but they rose from the depths to squeak into the playoffs and, had Pominville and Connolly not got injured, would have got to the 2nd round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, Marvin said: I think that Lindy's best coaching job in Buffalo was getting the 2010-1 team to the playoffs. The team has numerous long-term injuries to key players, but they rose from the depths to squeak into the playoffs and, had Pominville and Connolly not got injured, would have got to the 2nd round. The ville leino goal yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 46 minutes ago, MISabresFan said: Ties are not considered in "winning" percentage. It is based on WINS. Hmm... "In sports, a winning percentage is the fraction of games or matches a team or individual has won. The statistic is commonly used in standings or rankings to compare teams or individuals. It is defined as wins divided by the total number of matches played (i.e. wins plus draws plus losses). A draw counts as a 1⁄2 win. winning percentage=wins+0.5⋅ties / total games" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winning_percentage Depending on where we get the numbers from his WP is .571, .562, or .564 Edited March 8 by ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ... said: Hmm... "In sports, a winning percentage is the fraction of games or matches a team or individual has won. The statistic is commonly used in standings or rankings to compare teams or individuals. It is defined as wins divided by the total number of matches played (i.e. wins plus draws plus losses). A draw counts as a 1⁄2 win. winning percentage=wins+0.5⋅ties / total games" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winning_percentage Depending on where we get the numbers from his WP is .571, .562, or .564 This same formula is in hockey-reference. https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/glossary.html#:~:text=Winning percentage%3B calculated by adding,then dividing by games played. Edited March 8 by ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, ... said: This same formula is in hockey-reference. https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/glossary.html#:~:text=Winning percentage%3B calculated by adding,then dividing by games played. However, NHL Records clearly has a different formula. https://records.nhl.com/records/coach-records/wins/coach-most-wins-career They do strictly wins/games-coached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 5 minutes ago, ... said: However, NHL Records clearly has a different formula. https://records.nhl.com/records/coach-records/wins/coach-most-wins-career They do strictly wins/games-coached. Interesting. Anyway, I think this is all the source of the disagreement. There is varying instruction on how to calculate the W% for NHL coaches. Here are some comparables from the NHL list: Bowman .581 Trotz .504 Ruff .487 Nolan .397 Granato .438 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, MISabresFan said: Ties are not considered in "winning" percentage. It is based on WINS. I understand, compare those teams to the one that is on the ice now. Which one would you choose? I was just typing a response to this but you beat me to it. I overlooked ties because it has been 20 years since there has been a tie in the NHL and I am a dummy and accidentally left them out. My bad. But it still isn't close. Lindy's numbers are: Regular Season W% All: .490 Regular Season W% (97-04 T era): .440 Regular Season P% (97-04 T era): .508 Regular Season W% (04-13 OTL era): .538 Regular Season P% (04-13 OTL era): .594 Playoff W%: .564 Regular Season P% All: .560 Meatballs numbers are: Regular Season W% All: .437 Playoff W%: .000 Regular Season P% All: .488 For reference if you took last season Sabres and increased their.... -W% by .053 (total difference) would be 3rd in the division and leap frog both Tampa, NYI and Florida. - W% by .101 (difference era to era) we would have the same wins as Toronto but lose the 2 seed because of OTL. - P% by .072 (total difference) we would be tied for the 8th seed with Florida. - P% by .106 (difference era to era) we would jump bother Florida and NYI Mind you this is adjusting the best year Don Granato has ever had to Lindy Ruff's average performance. The only place that Meatballs and Lindy are similar is an era of hockey where the rules of the game (standings) were totally different. This is exactly why comparing W% 's between era's where 100% of games get 2 points and a winner to another era where 10-15% of games end without a winner/2 points at all. There is a reason that historically hockey coaches are not sorted by W%. Edited March 8 by Mango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Is this a jooooke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 I'd re-hire Ruff in a second to replace Granato. He is the only coach in Sabres history who proved he could adjust his style to maximize the players he had. No coach can succeed without good players, but some coaches, and I include Ruff in that group, can make a good group better. Of the 3 highest peeks in Sabre history, Ruff was the coach for two of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISabresFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I'd re-hire Ruff in a second to replace Granato. He is the only coach in Sabres history who proved he could adjust his style to maximize the players he had. No coach can succeed without good players, but some coaches, and I include Ruff in that group, can make a good group better. Of the 3 highest peeks in Sabre history, Ruff was the coach for two of them. I would try and go after a coach with a better history of winning is the jist of the whole thing for me. Neither are good enough. Maybe one does not exist?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, PASabreFan said: Is this a jooooke? My coach that ain’t won nuthin is better than your coach that ain’t won nuthin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Marv Levy vs. who was that one dude they had before McDermott? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Ruff is a Sabre Legend who I have great affection for. But, pretty much every comment on the Devils that I hear or read from people who cover the NHL, is that they were a disaster this year that went far deeper than just a couple of key injuries and bad goaltending. I'm not opposed to moving on from Granato, but surely we can do better than recycling Ruff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, Archie Lee said: Ruff is a Sabre Legend who I have great affection for. But, pretty much every comment on the Devils that I hear or read from people who cover the NHL, is that they were a disaster this year that went far deeper than just a couple of key injuries and bad goaltending. I'm not opposed to moving on from Granato, but surely we can do better than recycling Ruff? I am open to other suggestions. However, I wonder if Terry is open to them, whereas I could see him working with Ruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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