Rumor: Brady Tkachuk available

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, shrader said:

Let’s review the source of this disagreement.

-Crusader said he wouldn’t trade Samuelsson, Savoie, and a first for Parayko. 
-You say you would trade Samuelsson, Savoie, and a first for Tkachuk. 
 

So maybe, just maybe, we’re arguing over a misread post?

No not misread. I looked at both trades, Parayko and Tkachuk. The thread title is about Tkachuk after all. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

I do agree with you and I don't mind overpaying for the right player but basically 3 first round picks for Parayko? 

You don't know me very well if you don't think I'll answer.   Plus I've said in many threads what I think the Sabres should do next season.    
it's not that I mind the player but he is not worth the equivalent of 3 first round picks 

Well first off, although they were picked in the first round, that doesn't mean they have that value now. You can pick wrong. But that's a different argument. At the moment they are not on our roster.

Is Parayko worth 3 first rounders? No, he's not. But would Parayko make our D a whole lot better absolutely, so I'm willing to over pay. If Savoie is just another Nylander (ours not the Leafs)  it's not an overpay. If he's better it is an overpay but if we win and make the playoffs I don't care how good he is for them, cause we are a playoff team again. 

If we can get a guy like that for less great. We probably should have tried to get Peeke off Columbus (cause he's been a physical shot blocking machine for Boston so far) for next to nothing or some other defenders but status quo just won't get it done. We do not have those guys and we need them. 

Back to Tkachuk though, he's definitely worth that package if not more. 

Good NHL players are good NHL players and they are hard to just get. You can see with Eichel and Reinhart we LOST those trades. It's time we became that team that dumps picks and prospects for true NHL players instead of just being a farm team for others. 

[Buffalonill]

Clearly some haven't watched Parayko as of late ..

He would be a horrible add especially his ugly contract

[Crusader1969]

55 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well first off, although they were picked in the first round, that doesn't mean they have that value now. You can pick wrong. But that's a different argument. At the moment they are not on our roster.

Is Parayko worth 3 first rounders? No, he's not. But would Parayko make our D a whole lot better absolutely, so I'm willing to over pay. If Savoie is just another Nylander (ours not the Leafs)  it's not an overpay. If he's better it is an overpay but if we win and make the playoffs I don't care how good he is for them, cause we are a playoff team again. 

If we can get a guy like that for less great. We probably should have tried to get Peeke off Columbus (cause he's been a physical shot blocking machine for Boston so far) for next to nothing or some other defenders but status quo just won't get it done. We do not have those guys and we need them. 

Back to Tkachuk though, he's definitely worth that package if not more. 

Good NHL players are good NHL players and they are hard to just get. You can see with Eichel and Reinhart we LOST those trades. It's time we became that team that dumps picks and prospects for true NHL players instead of just being a farm team for others. 

how would Savoie not have 1st round value? the kid just led the WHL in pts / gm with 2 and is off to a great start in the playoffs  and the 1st round pick, is still to come

Not sure how you would rank Samuelsson but if you can get a first for Risto.....

Plus I would say getting Kulich, Levi, Tuch, Krebs, Östlund and Greenway ((LVK) 2nd round pick used to acquire him) is a pretty good haul for 2 players who were at the end of their Sabres careers. 

Is a 31 year old Parayko two first round picks better than Samuelsson?  I dont see any universe that he is  Again not opposed to the player, just not worth the package you want to pay 

[Crusader1969]

Further on Parayko , he has received votes for the Lady Bing 4 times in his career.  I can just imagine how Sabres Space will react to the 6-6 gentlemanly defenceman.

[Weave]

28 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Further on Parayko , he has received votes for the Lady Bing 4 times in his career.  I can just imagine how Sabres Space will react to the 6-6 gentlemanly defenceman.

Owen Power’s ceiling?

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, oddoublee said:

you bet slugger

 

3 hours ago, oddoublee said:

no - i am not one of those people who screams size and grit. not saying the team doesnt need it - but i dont scream for it. 

i just think the team is horribly lopsided on D depth - and horribly lopsided with youthful depth. it can only go so far - and so many of these guys rarely pan out to anything other than bottom 6 or bottom pair dmen. 

fans and gm's love youth more than they should. i suppose because it is tangible in writing - but most good teams balance it out. 

as the team stands now, it is going to flame out over the next 2 - 3 years and we could have nothing to show for it by having a surplus of underachieving high draft picks.

i mean, what has the organization shown us that we can feel confident that they know what the hell they are doing with all of these high draft picks? 

and fyi, very in touch with how a lot of organizations work - doesnt mean it is right. your favorite team is an example of that. but no worries, you can get a nice dopamine hit from buying another sweatshirt or jersey!

You're so far out to lunch on parayko worth in the league, you think he's worth 1 2nd round pick less than Jack Eichel. 

Lol calling me slugger is the most boomer bommerism to ever boomer.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

To pay the price for Tkachuk, you have to have a serious investigation into his maturity level.  
 

 

 

His little tantrum the other day was hilarious. They were all up in arms earlier in the year after the Morgan Rielly incident and then he blows up over that? He’s a child. 

[oddoublee]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

You're so far out to lunch on parayko worth in the league, you think he's worth 1 2nd round pick less than Jack Eichel. 

Lol calling me slugger is the most boomer bommerism to ever boomer.

I'm a millennial chief

[PerreaultForever]

53 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

how would Savoie not have 1st round value? the kid just led the WHL in pts / gm with 2 and is off to a great start in the playoffs  and the 1st round pick, is still to come

Not sure how you would rank Samuelsson but if you can get a first for Risto.....

Plus I would say getting Kulich, Levi, Tuch, Krebs, Östlund and Greenway ((LVK) 2nd round pick used to acquire him) is a pretty good haul for 2 players who were at the end of their Sabres careers. 

Is a 31 year old Parayko two first round picks better than Samuelsson?  I dont see any universe that he is  Again not opposed to the player, just not worth the package you want to pay 

Kulich is an unproven prospect. He's of no value until he is (in the NHL)

Levi has promise but is not NHL ready. Will he be? Maybe. Maybe not. 

Tuch is fine. Inconsistent, but a decent 2nd or 3rd line winger (he is not really a top line guy and Sabres ask too much of him imo)

Krebs is a marginal NHLer. Virtually no value imo. 

Östlund like Kulich has no value until he does. I really don't like his size and question if he can ever play in the NHL. 

Greenway is a weird guy. idk if his heart isn't in it. Maybe he is good at hockey but doesn't really like hockey? idk but he puzzles me. At moment he looks like a solid power forward, at other moments he is a nasty bottom ender, at others he seems completely unengaged and just floats. I can't figure him out and I guess that's why Minnesota gave up on him. I'm not sure how he affects the locker room (if at all) but he has inconsistency issues to say the least. But a 2nd is no big deal there.

meanwhile Reinhart scores buckets of goals for Florida and Eichel wins a cup, so go on believing we won those trades if you want to. 

The Risto trade can't be used to judge anything. Adams did good there since we'd broken Risto big time and Fletcher was an idiot. You get a steal now and again. We won that one for sure. BUT, it also does mean that we never replaced him with a solid defensive D man. We need that guy. Samuelsson appears to be too fragile for that role. So again, no, Parayko isn't WORTH that, but I'd still do it if that's what it took because we would be that much better and better NOW not in 5 years. 

If you can get a Pesce or someone in free agency even better, but we don't have a history of doing that so a trade seems the only way we get better without waiting longer. Heck if we overpay for Parayko with nothing from the roster then we can maybe flip Samuelsson over to Philly for a different first rounder since they like to do that sort of thing and we can burn them again. They might want that for the familial connection. 

We have a losing team that is constructed poorly. There is pretty much nobody or nothing we have that I wouldn't consider in trade scenarios to change the make up and look of this team. Staying the course just won't get it done (at least for several years).

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, oddoublee said:

I'm a millennial chief

Well scooter, if you'll read what I wrote again, I called it a bommerism meaning the comment  not you. 

 

[oddoublee]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Well scooter, if you'll read what I wrote again, I called it a bommerism meaning the comment  not you. 

 

I love your internet sanctimony. Never change!

[PASabreFan]

3 hours ago, oddoublee said:

I love your internet sanctimony. Never change!

I say it sancTIMony.

[Believer]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

We have a losing team that is constructed poorly. There is pretty much nobody or nothing we have that I wouldn't consider in trade scenarios to change the make up and look of this team. Staying the course just won't get it done (at least for several years).

Agree 100%.

[RETURNTOGLORY]

16 hours ago, oddoublee said:

I'm a millennial chief

I'm sorry to hear that.

[shrader]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I say it sancTIMony.

I don’t know why, but now in my mind those last two syllables are rhyming with jiminy, as in the cricket. 

[PASabreFan]

24 minutes ago, shrader said:

I don’t know why, but now in my mind those last two syllables are rhyming with jiminy, as in the cricket. 

Of course. They should.

[Mr. Allen]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Kulich is an unproven prospect. He's of no value until he is (in the NHL) 

Using that logic we should go get Shane Wright from the Kraken.  He’s done nothing in the NHL.  🙂 

Edited April 9 by Mr. Allen

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, oddoublee said:

I love your internet sanctimony. Never change!

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Mr. Allen said:

Using that logic we should go get Shane Wright from the Kraken.  He’s done nothing in the NHL.  🙂 

That's the reverse logic so I assume you're trying to be funny or take a shot but the point holds. There are lots of first round picks who never become what they were projected to be. Wright might still become a decent player but he's a disappointment at this stage. 

The thing is if you are going to trade prospects you have to move them at a point where the other team still thinks they have high end value. You have to make that decision when you think they might not be that guy or not as good as you hoped but also not seen as a bust yet by the other guy. It's tricky and as a fan I get you never want to lose a potentially good player. 

But I don't want another season of "look at all these guys we have coming in the future". I want a team on the ice that can make the playoffs and win in the playoffs. To get there we need to let a few prospects go and take our chances on that. The roster does not have a good veteran mix. It lacks leadership. It's a ship with no captain and it has leaks. I don't even want a draft pick this year. Trade it. I'm really tired of "next year". 

[ska-T Chitown]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's the reverse logic so I assume you're trying to be funny or take a shot but the point holds. There are lots of first round picks who never become what they were projected to be. Wright might still become a decent player but he's a disappointment at this stage. 

The thing is if you are going to trade prospects you have to move them at a point where the other team still thinks they have high end value. You have to make that decision when you think they might not be that guy or not as good as you hoped but also not seen as a bust yet by the other guy. It's tricky and as a fan I get you never want to lose a potentially good player. 

But I don't want another season of "look at all these guys we have coming in the future". I want a team on the ice that can make the playoffs and win in the playoffs. To get there we need to let a few prospects go and take our chances on that. The roster does not have a good veteran mix. It lacks leadership. It's a ship with no captain and it has leaks. I don't even want a draft pick this year. Trade it. I'm really tired of "next year". 

Your point makes sense to me - no real NHL value. They have perceived potential value which will value greatly and likely be highest amongst the home town fan base.

Also, I totally agree about willing to do pretty much anything to improve the team. JFC ... 13 yrs is all but a few decimal places away. I long for the day when a 'top prospect' needs to sit in Rochester for 3 or 4 years because there is simply no room for him on the roster. Sure, we get glimpses of what is to come when he gets called up for a brief injury fill in ... but boy will he be awesome once we have a spot for him. While also acknowledging that is not entirely how the NHL functions anymore, with superstar contracts and salary caps you need some entry level contract 'kids' who overperform if you are going to make any real noise.

Anyway - love the discussion, some really great points!

[Mr. Allen]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's the reverse logic so I assume you're trying to be funny or take a shot but the point holds. There are lots of first round picks who never become what they were projected to be. Wright might still become a decent player but he's a disappointment at this stage. 

The thing is if you are going to trade prospects you have to move them at a point where the other team still thinks they have high end value. You have to make that decision when you think they might not be that guy or not as good as you hoped but also not seen as a bust yet by the other guy. It's tricky and as a fan I get you never want to lose a potentially good player. 

But I don't want another season of "look at all these guys we have coming in the future". I want a team on the ice that can make the playoffs and win in the playoffs. To get there we need to let a few prospects go and take our chances on that. The roster does not have a good veteran mix. It lacks leadership. It's a ship with no captain and it has leaks. I don't even want a draft pick this year. Trade it. I'm really tired of "next year". 

Well yeah.  Just an attempt to be funny. I’m crushing it on this board recently….

But I thought Wright was doing pretty good in the AHL.  Is he not?  It’s not like you could snag him for anything less than a mid- high 1st.  

[PerreaultForever]

21 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

Your point makes sense to me - no real NHL value. They have perceived potential value which will value greatly and likely be highest amongst the home town fan base.

Also, I totally agree about willing to do pretty much anything to improve the team. JFC ... 13 yrs is all but a few decimal places away. I long for the day when a 'top prospect' needs to sit in Rochester for 3 or 4 years because there is simply no room for him on the roster. Sure, we get glimpses of what is to come when he gets called up for a brief injury fill in ... but boy will he be awesome once we have a spot for him. While also acknowledging that is not entirely how the NHL functions anymore, with superstar contracts and salary caps you need some entry level contract 'kids' who overperform if you are going to make any real noise.

Anyway - love the discussion, some really great points!

Definitely, a situation where guys in Rochester are fighting for NHL spots would be great. Likewise it would be great if guys on the roster were fighting to stay on the roster from that same sort of pressure. 

None of the prospects that have come up so far have overly impressed though. RJ has potential but he's just a greener version of what we already have. None of the other brief visits impressed. (I'm not counting Levi since the goaltending thing is a messed up separate discussion)

If we become a cap ceiling team rookie contracts will be important as they are for anybody as will cheap 4th line deals and veteran depth players on cheap deals but we are far from that point. All GMs have to balance incoming contracts against expiring ones and the circle of life continues but that worry is not today's worry for me. 

[PerreaultForever]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

Well yeah.  Just an attempt to be funny. I’m crushing it on this board recently….

But I thought Wright was doing pretty good in the AHL.  Is he not?  It’s not like you could snag him for anything less than a mid- high 1st.  

idk I haven't followed them closely this year. I think he was called up by the Kraken recently for a late season look now that they are out of it but not sure. I looked him up 43 pts. in 56 games for the Firebirds. Is that good for AHL? I guess it's okay. I don't really follow AHL hockey so not sure. They have 4 other guys with higher point totals and their leading scorer is Kole Lind with 62. 

[inkman]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Definitely, a situation where guys in Rochester are fighting for NHL spots would be great. Likewise it would be great if guys on the roster were fighting to stay on the roster from that same sort of pressure. 

None of the prospects that have come up so far have overly impressed though. RJ has potential but he's just a greener version of what we already have. None of the other brief visits impressed. (I'm not counting Levi since the goaltending thing is a messed up separate discussion)

If we become a cap ceiling team rookie contracts will be important as they are for anybody as will cheap 4th line deals and veteran depth players on cheap deals but we are far from that point. All GMs have to balance incoming contracts against expiring ones and the circle of life continues but that worry is not today's worry for me. 

Peterka? Quinn?