DOES ADAMS GET A GOALIE NOW?!

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres need 54 points in their remaining 38 games to chance.  That’s 25-9-4.  There is no way on G-d’s green Earth that this team performs even close to that level.  They haven’t even had a 3 game win streak.  I’m glad you hold out hope, but it’s just not realistic. 

I agree that making the playoffs isn’t a huge part of my consideration here. It doesn’t look like we will. But if the priority is winning, I don’t think that’s something you can be wishy-washy with once you’ve committed to it, to backtrack would potentially be disastrous and is at least playing with fire 

on the other hand, even good teams sell at deadline sometimes..teams that committed to winning at start of year. So maybe I’m being too naive and it’s just something that happens..but my gut says there’s no reason to think a team that’s proven themselves constantly to be the anomaly would do so otherwise here: we might be THAT team where it’s just too dangerous for us to take our foot off the gas. Climbing such a steep slope, hesitation on that front could be costly

I dunno  

Edited January 15 by Thorny

[Weave]

The solution is simple to consider, difficult to do Midseason, and seemingly something KA is not willing to do.

Trade for a legit 2G and get Levi the reps he needs in Rochester.

This team is out of the playoffs (unless you believe in miracles), but this team absolutely must prioritize winning now, regardless.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

The solution is simple to consider, difficult to do Midseason, and seemingly something KA is not willing to do.

Trade for a legit 2G and get Levi the reps he needs in Rochester.

This team is out of the playoffs (unless you believe in miracles), but this team absolutely must prioritize winning now, regardless.

We are sort of sitting at where we thought we’d be on the goaltending front coming into the season, too, just with the personnel switched up a bit. I think most gave Levi the benefit of the doubt in locking down a roll, but the backup was a huge question mark as we knew, even best case scenario with Levi, we’d need a second guy.

Well we sort of got that good scenario, after a while, just with UPL instead. But we’re still lacking the second guy we assumed we would, to the detriment of the goaltending output overall. 

Edited January 15 by Thorny

[#freejame]

Not sure where it came from but ive always felt

you need 4 years to evaluate skaters and 6 years to evaluate goalies. Seems like our former top goaltending prospect is starting to realize his potential. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres need 54 points in their remaining 38 games to chance.  That’s 25-9-4.  There is no way on G-d’s green Earth that this team performs even close to that level.  They haven’t even had a 3 game win streak.  I’m glad you hold out hope, but it’s just not realistic. 

My solutions gives max reps to both Levi and UPL, who are presumably the goalies for next season, while enhancing both the Amerks and Sabres chances to win this season.    

After the Bills lost to Philly they had a 5% chance of getting into the playoffs. Look how they finished and where they are now! Your projection on the number of points required to make the playoffs is not ironclad. It could be lower. All I'm saying to you and others is to hang on a little longer and see how things play out in the next dozen or so games. In my opinion you are too quick to make an assumption before we get to the point where it is safe to make an assumption. Keep an open mind and keep hope a live.

4 hours ago, Weave said:

The solution is simple to consider, difficult to do Midseason, and seemingly something KA is not willing to do.

Trade for a legit 2G and get Levi the reps he needs in Rochester.

This team is out of the playoffs (unless you believe in miracles), but this team absolutely must prioritize winning now, regardless.

What 2G would you pursue? 

[Weave]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

 

What 2G would you pursue? 

There are at least 25 of them that would be adequate.  Take your pick.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

There are at least 25 of them that would be adequate.  Take your pick.

I prefer Levi as our #2. I'm not sure within the 25 group anyone is much better than Comrie. I said it many times over: I don't see KA making a goalie move this year. 

[Brawndo]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I prefer Levi as our #2. I'm not sure within the 25 group anyone is much better than Comrie. I said it many times over: I don't see KA making a goalie move this year. 

Levi needs to play games. He played 32 and 34 games respectively in two seasons at Northeastern. This season he should play somewhere between 55-60 as he gets used to playing a pro schedule, he is not getting that in Buffalo with UPL seizing the starters net. 
 

Levi’s Development needs to be treated as a separate entity completely independent of the Sabres Success or Failures this year. 
Placing Levi into a situation that he is not ready for will only compound the mistakes made at the goaltending position over the past few seasons 

[bunomatic]

Apparently Swayman might be available. He’s not too happy with Bruins management tearing him down during the arbitration process. 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Levi needs to play games. He played 32 and 34 games respectively in two seasons at Northeastern. This season he should play somewhere between 55-60 as he gets used to playing a pro schedule, he is not getting that in Buffalo with UPL seizing the starters net. 
 

Levi’s Development needs to be treated as a separate entity completely independent of the Sabres Success or Failures this year. 
Placing Levi into a situation that he is not ready for will only compound the mistakes made at the goaltending position over the past few seasons 

I respectfully and strenuously disagree that his development should be treated independently from the success and failure of this year. They are not mutually exclusive. Right now, he is our second-best goalie on the team and in the system. And if player development is your primary concern, then practicing and given playing time as a backup on the NHL team will also contribute to his development. 

This shouldn't be a throw-away season. At least not yet. The priority for this team on behalf of its abused fanbase should be winning. Stay the course!

[bob_sauve28]

16 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres need 54 points in their remaining 38 games to chance.  That’s 25-9-4.  There is no way on G-d’s green Earth that this team performs even close to that level.  They haven’t even had a 3 game win streak.  I’m glad you hold out hope, but it’s just not realistic. 

My solutions gives max reps to both Levi and UPL, who are presumably the goalies for next season, while enhancing both the Amerks and Sabres chances to win this season.    

Ouch! That was difficult to read. Math is just so brutally honest 

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Ouch! That was difficult to read. Math is just so brutally honest 

It’s a tough read because it reflects the hole the Sabres dug for themselves.  Pretty scary. Even if it takes 93 pts to make the playoffs like last year, you are looking at 24-11-3.  It’s not happening.  

More math.  The Sabres have 38 games left. UPL has started the last 3.  This appears to be management’s anointing him the starter because he gives the Sabres the best chance to win now. If he plays 3 of 4 the rest of the season, that puts the split to 28-10 UPL to Levi.  

So what is more important for Sabres longterm, Levi playing 10 games in the NHL or 25+ in Rochester plus the playoffs?  I think the answer is pretty easy - Levi to Rochester.  

Sending Levi down is not an admission that the Sabres aren’t interested in winning, but an acknowledgement that Levi isn’t quite ready for the NHL.  

PS Despite words to the contrary, KA made it clear the Sabres weren’t truly interested in winning when he brought back the 3 headed goalie monster with combined experience of 100 NHL games. Is it really a surprise that all 3 inexperienced goalies struggled at points this season? The fact that UPL seems to be stepping up creates some hope for the goaltending next season and beyond, but the failure of this season is on KA.  

Edited January 16 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s a tough read because it reflects the hole the Sabres dug for themselves.  Pretty scary. Even if it takes 93 pts to make the playoffs like last year, you are looking at 24-11-3.  It’s not happening.  

 

 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s a tough read because it reflects the hole the Sabres dug for themselves.  Pretty scary. Even if it takes 93 pts to make the playoffs like last year, you are looking at 24-11-3.  It’s not happening.  

More math.  The Sabres have 38 games left. UPL has started the last 3.  This appears to be management’s anointing him the starter because he gives the Sabres the best chance to win now. If he plays 3 of 4 the rest of the season, that puts the split to 28-10 UPL to Levi.  

So what is more important for Sabres longterm, Levi playing 10 games in the NHL or 25+ in Rochester plus the playoffs?  I think the answer is pretty easy - Levi to Rochester.  

Sending Levi down is not an admission that the Sabres aren’t interested in winning, but an acknowledgement that Levi isn’t quite ready for the NHL.  

PS Despite words to the contrary, KA made it clear the Sabres weren’t truly interested in winning when he brought back the 3 headed goalie monster with combined experience of 100 NHL games. Is it really a surprise that all 3 inexperienced goalies struggled at points this season? The fact that UPL seems to be stepping up creates some hope for the goaltending next season and beyond, but the failure of this season is on KA.  

Re: the bold

By *far* the most important and beneficial thing, long term, for both franchise and fan, would be making the playoffs this year. If, hypothetically, keeping Levi here resulted in a berth, it will have been a better strategy by orders of magnitude than sending him down. So it’s not as clear cut as you think: you have to be certain we can’t get in, and certain there aren’t segments of the team that think they can get in, when you make the move 

[Thorny]

It’s probably why Levi is still here. Which I’ll credit Adams for I suppose in the sense that I’m choosing to believe that’s a reflection of the GM’s commitment to winning this season and not some random agreement. 

Keeping Levi here because he’s a bit better than Comrie would imo be evidence towards what the priority is 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s probably why Levi is still here. Which I’ll credit Adams for I suppose in the sense that I’m choosing to believe that’s a reflection of the GM’s commitment to winning this season and not some random agreement. 

Keeping Levi here because he’s a bit better than Comrie would imo be evidence towards what the priority is 

Sticking with Levi demonstrates a priority towards winning only works in the context of, “we are sticking with what we’ve got”.  Which, to me, is not much of a priority towards winning.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

Sticking with Levi demonstrates a priority towards winning only works in the context of, “we are sticking with what we’ve got”.  Which, to me, is not much of a priority towards winning.

I guess for me it’s the relative comparison between “best we’ve got” and “some of the best we’ve got”

[Thorny]

I can’t be nearly as annoyingly certain in my viewpoint on this as I usually am because….like I said I’m not actually sure what the correct course is (or, rather, what I personally suspect the correct course to be). While playoffs were reasonably possible I was much more set on keeping him up but there’s probably a mathematical line where playoffs become so unlikely it probably makes most sense to prioritize his development, even in a season where winning is/is supposed to be the priority 

Are we at the line? Maybe. My gut still says no cause, for a team that’s missed 12 straight years, it would be pretty hoity-toity to turn up our noses at even the slim chances presented to us right now 

id keep mah foot on the gas pedal 

Edited January 16 by Thorny

[Weave]

Just now, Thorny said:

I can’t be nearly as annoyingly certain in my viewpoint on this as I usually am because….like I said I’m not actually sure what the correct course is (or, rather, what I personally suspect the correct course to be). While playoffs were reasonably possible I was much more set on keeping him up but there’s probably a mathematical line where playoffs become so unlikely it probably makes most sense to prioritize his development when in a season where winning is/is supposed to be the priority 

Are we at the line? Maybe. My gut still says no cause, for a team that’s missed 12 straight years, it would be pretty hoity-toity to turn up our noses at even the slim chances presented to us right now 

id keep mah foot on the gas pedal 

You’ve heard it from me before, but regardless of playoff likelihood, we have to keep the foot on the gas. For multiple reasons. Not the least of which is improving our ability to recruit veteran players that will actually improve the competitiveness of the team.

My issue is, I don’t think that “foot on the gas” is in Levi’s best interests. And in that regard, I consider KA to be somewhat derelict in his duties to not have reacted and found an outside goalie that fits “foot on the gas” and allows Levi to develop and play at the appropriate level.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

You’ve heard it from me before, but regardless of playoff likelihood, we have to keep the foot on the gas. For multiple reasons. Not the least of which is improving our ability to recruit veteran players that will actually improve the competitiveness of the team.

My issue is, I don’t think that “foot on the gas” is in Levi’s best interests. And in that regard, I consider KA to be somewhat derelict in his duties to not have reacted and found an outside goalie that fits “foot on the gas” and allows Levi to develop and play at the appropriate level.

I agree completely. 

[Porous Five Hole]

12 hours ago, bunomatic said:

Apparently Swayman might be available. He’s not too happy with Bruins management tearing him down during the arbitration process. 

I cannot imagine the Bruins trading him within the division.  A spare part forward, sure. But not a goalie. I wish they would!
 

Jeremy Swayman is an NHL all star this year. 
 

I think Linus is more likely to be moved (30 years old, one more year on his contract and a 5M cap hit, 16 team no trade list).  Thats not immovable.  

Edited January 16 by Porous Five Hole

[GASabresIUFAN]

22 hours ago, Weave said:

Trade for a legit 2G and get Levi the reps he needs in Rochester.

@Thorny you were arguing with me about sending Levi down but liked this statement.  What gives?  Is it that Comrie comes up if Levi goes down if no trade is made?  What if UPL gets 28 of the last 38 starts Levi gets 5 and Comrie 5? Is that more palatable? 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@Thorny you were arguing with me about sending Levi down but liked this statement.  What gives?  Is it that Comrie comes up if Levi goes down if no trade is made?  What if UPL gets 28 of the last 38 starts Levi gets 5 and Comrie 5? Is that more palatable? 

Ya like the reason I want Levi here is because he’s imo not insignificantly our second best option right now re: attempting to win hockey games 

I don’t think his development is harmed by keeping him here to the extent it should be prioritized over team result in the now - ie I don’t think it’s harmed very much by keeping him up tbh. Do I think he’d be better served being sent down? Probably, but that’s not what I’m prioritizing right now if we still think playoffs are in play. Like weave said, we shouldn’t even BE in that position, but we are so I’m making decisions based on what is and not what should be 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s a tough read because it reflects the hole the Sabres dug for themselves.  Pretty scary. Even if it takes 93 pts to make the playoffs like last year, you are looking at 24-11-3.  It’s not happening.  

More math.  The Sabres have 38 games left. UPL has started the last 3.  This appears to be management’s anointing him the starter because he gives the Sabres the best chance to win now. If he plays 3 of 4 the rest of the season, that puts the split to 28-10 UPL to Levi.  

So what is more important for Sabres longterm, Levi playing 10 games in the NHL or 25+ in Rochester plus the playoffs?  I think the answer is pretty easy - Levi to Rochester.  

Sending Levi down is not an admission that the Sabres aren’t interested in winning, but an acknowledgement that Levi isn’t quite ready for the NHL.  

PS Despite words to the contrary, KA made it clear the Sabres weren’t truly interested in winning when he brought back the 3 headed goalie monster with combined experience of 100 NHL games. Is it really a surprise that all 3 inexperienced goalies struggled at points this season? The fact that UPL seems to be stepping up creates some hope for the goaltending next season and beyond, but the failure of this season is on KA.  

What you fail to acknowledge is that Levi became our primary goalie in last season's push for the playoffs. He was our best goalie by far who was called on by the HC when every game at that point was critical. UPL has played exceptionally well over the past number of games. That's something to celebrate. Right now, he has moved ahead of Levi based on his performance. That's a classic example that internal competition makes players better. 

You act as if Levi has lost his way. That isn't the case. You can cite whatever statistics you want why Levi should be sent down to Rochester. But the reality when over-relying on goalie stats is that it often doesn't account for the play of his own players in their defensive roles. 

The Sabres have had too many of their best players who wanted out because they were tired of losing. Now you are making the argument that Levi should be sent down and being replaced by an inferior netminder. That makes no sense to me. 

Are the Sabres out of the playoff race? Maybe/maybe not. What this organization needs to do is show respect to the rest of the players on the team, and especially the abused fans that it is committed to winning. How do you do that? One obvious way is keeping your best players, not by moving them off the roster. You may believe that the Sabres have no chance for the playoffs, thus making this another hideous throwaway season. I'm not there yet. If the Sabres do what you are advocating for, I will have not a scintilla of respect for this franchise. 

You like throwing around statistics. Let me give you one to think about: The Bills has a 5% chance of making the playoffs after the excruciating Philly loss. The team stayed together and fought on. Look where they are now! Maybe you think it is smart jumping ship before it is sinking; I rather remain on the ship even when it is in turbulent waters. Stay the course!

[Thorny]