2023 NHL Summer Trade Thread

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, CTJoe said:

UPL has size, that's it.  He's very weak on his glove side, has below average quickness, below average positioning and below average rebound control. He's still young in goaltending age but that's a lot of issues to improve upon.

Which is why he never should have been playing NHL games yet. He needed (and still needs) lots of one on one goaltending coaching and development. Adin Hill is 27 and spent years in the AHL. That's the path that UPL should have been on. UPL is now 24 and if he'd been brought along properly he should just now be poking around the edges of maybe making an NHL roster. As is we set him back and he hasn't properly worked on his weaknesses and as such MAYBE if he's sent back down and coached and he works on things then MAYBE he can be our Adin Hill when he's 27 (if needed). 

If we don't bring in a veteran goalie there's a good chance we ruin Levi as well. Our plan appears to be a repeat of Philly's mistake with Hart. It's a risky and probably really dumb plan. 

[thewookie1]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Which is why he never should have been playing NHL games yet. He needed (and still needs) lots of one on one goaltending coaching and development. Adin Hill is 27 and spent years in the AHL. That's the path that UPL should have been on. UPL is now 24 and if he'd been brought along properly he should just now be poking around the edges of maybe making an NHL roster. As is we set him back and he hasn't properly worked on his weaknesses and as such MAYBE if he's sent back down and coached and he works on things then MAYBE he can be our Adin Hill when he's 27 (if needed). 

If we don't bring in a veteran goalie there's a good chance we ruin Levi as well. Our plan appears to be a repeat of Philly's mistake with Hart. It's a risky and probably really dumb plan. 

The issue with UPL and the AHL was is that any prospect worth going after would be swooped up on waivers when they’d become subject to waivers. Hill wasn’t good until he sprung onto the scene with Arizona. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

The issue with UPL and the AHL was is that any prospect worth going after would be swooped up on waivers when they’d become subject to waivers. Hill wasn’t good until he sprung onto the scene with Arizona. 

I get that, but what makes you so sure he would have been scooped up? Maybe we made him a "name" with all the NHL time, but prior to that, when he should never have been called up at all, he wasn't exactly a big name that NHL GMs were lining up to steal away. He was a nobody outside Buffalo. 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

The issue with UPL and the AHL was is that any prospect worth going after would be swooped up on waivers when they’d become subject to waivers. Hill wasn’t good until he sprung onto the scene with Arizona. 

I think you could waive upl and he'd clear.

[thewookie1]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

I get that, but what makes you so sure he would have been scooped up? Maybe we made him a "name" with all the NHL time, but prior to that, when he should never have been called up at all, he wasn't exactly a big name that NHL GMs were lining up to steal away. He was a nobody outside Buffalo. 

What I’m trying to get to was nowadays he would be grabbed and most goalies who do well in the AHL are forced into the NHL once that waiver clearance ends. In UPL’s case he was very unlucky as most of his NHL time was due to abnormal numbers of goalie injuries forcing the Sabres to use him. More than likely, this past year should have been his inaugural season, not his 3rd.  But rampant injuries forced him into the NHL and his own injuries have made 2/3 very short stints. (We used 6 goalies his first two years) 

In that regard, Levi gets to stay in Rochester because he hasn’t been needed to play out last year’s playoff run which gave evidence he might be ready already. 

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you could waive upl and he'd clear.

I highly doubt it, there are too many teams that could still see potential and have rebuilding years to kill. Chicago, San Jose, even Anaheim theoretically. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

What I’m trying to get to was nowadays he would be grabbed and most goalies who do well in the AHL are forced into the NHL once that waiver clearance ends. In UPL’s case he was very unlucky as most of his NHL time was due to abnormal numbers of goalie injuries forcing the Sabres to use him. More than likely, this past year should have been his inaugural season, not his 3rd.  But rampant injuries forced him into the NHL and his own injuries have made 2/3 very short stints. (We used 6 goalies his first two years) 

In that regard, Levi gets to stay in Rochester because he hasn’t been needed to play out last year’s playoff run which gave evidence he might be ready already. 

UPL only played 13 games before this season in the NHL. He spent part of 3 other seasons in the AHL before this one and wasn't very good. Idk what the Sabre could have done differently other than drafting Wolf so UPL wouldn't be needed here.

[thewookie1]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

UPL only played 13 games before this season in the NHL. He spent part of 3 other seasons in the AHL before this one and wasn't very good. Idk what the Sabre could have done differently other than drafting Wolf so UPL wouldn't be needed here.

Oh, I understand that; I was just remarking about Perrault’s statement about Adin Hill and us using UPL made him known

[Curt]

38 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I get that, but what makes you so sure he would have been scooped up? Maybe we made him a "name" with all the NHL time, but prior to that, when he should never have been called up at all, he wasn't exactly a big name that NHL GMs were lining up to steal away. He was a nobody outside Buffalo. 

I think it’s kind of the opposite, even before he played in the AHL he was a highly regarded goalie prospect.  Being a fairly high draft pick and being dominant in the OHL.  I think his professional exposure actually dropped his stock.

[dudacek]

42 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you could waive upl and he'd clear.

I don’t.

I think there are a number of backups who aren’t any better than him right now who don’t have the perceived upside.

And his salary is a non-issue.

[Thorny]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t.

I think there are a number of backups who aren’t any better than him right now who don’t have the perceived upside.

And his salary is a non-issue.

Even a small number is a number, it’s true 

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Even a small number is a number, it’s true 

To be clear, I have no issue with losing Luukkonen on waivers if that’s part of the price we pay for a better Levi partner.

Id be surprised and disappointed if Adams is unable to get anything for him, but that would probably be less a function of Adams and more of a function of the market and my misreading of it.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To be clear, I have no issue with losing Luukkonen on waivers if that’s part of the price we pay for a better Levi partner.

Id be surprised and disappointed if Adams is unable to get anything for him, but that would probably be less a function of Adams and more of a function of the market and my misreading of it.

Ya if we lose him for nothing you’d have to believe that was an accepted offshoot of rostering a better guy and already factored in to acquisition cost 

this is Kevyn Adams we are talking about, here 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you could waive upl and he'd clear.

Possible.  But could easily see somebody taking a chance on him.  Comrie is more likely to clear waivers IMHO even though would personally rather have him backing up Levi than UPL should it come to 1 of the 2 of them backing him up.

[tom webster]

I feel like I’m beating a dead horse but just because I guy was drafted high and at one time was “maybe” considered a prospect doesn’t mean Magic Don can fix him.

By all acceptable goaltending metrics UPL has had one “less then half season” in the ECHL were he wasn’t considered one of the leagues worst goalies. How long can we blame hip surgery and defensive systems? 
 

If Buffalo was going into this season with two “top end prospects” I wouldn’t be happy but I’d understand. To be going into this season hoping that Levi defies history and UPL suddenly becomes average is management malpractice, especially when there is a solution that only cost money, a draft choice and the team’s fifth best prospect.

[JohnC]

47 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Possible.  But could easily see somebody taking a chance on him.  Comrie is more likely to clear waivers IMHO even though would personally rather have him backing up Levi than UPL should it come to 1 of the 2 of them backing him up.

I don't know who is going to be the backup to Levi. If Comrie demonstrates in camp and in the preseason that he is a better backup alternative than UPL, then so be it. And if UPL outperforms Comrie, then he will have earned the backup role. As far as losing either player when waived that's simply a function of the waiver system. If neither one of these two players separates themselves from one another, then the determining issue becomes who has more upside. 

Other teams are also wrestling with the same issue regarding waiver considerations. If we lose one of our goalies, then the market will provide another player, even if it is only for the short-term. 

@Thornyhas made the potent point that the Sabres are at a later stage in their rebuild where the primary consideration is player competition and not entitlement. There is no question that Levi is going to start the season as the primary goalie. Internal competition will decide who will be the backup. If one of our goalies is lost on waivers, I'm not going to consider it to be a major setback. It's the system that all franchises have to deal with. 

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I feel like I’m beating a dead horse but just because I guy was drafted high and at one time was “maybe” considered a prospect doesn’t mean Magic Don can fix him.

By all acceptable goaltending metrics UPL has had one “less then half season” in the ECHL were he wasn’t considered one of the leagues worst goalies. How long can we blame hip surgery and defensive systems? 
 

If Buffalo was going into this season with two “top end prospects” I wouldn’t be happy but I’d understand. To be going into this season hoping that Levi defies history and UPL suddenly becomes average is management malpractice, especially when there is a solution that only cost money, a draft choice and the team’s fifth best prospect.

No no, go on. This ain’t no truth or dare.

Just beat it. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't know who is going to be the backup to Levi. If Comrie demonstrates in camp and in the preseason that he is a better backup alternative than UPL, then so be it. And if UPL outperforms Comrie, then he will have earned the backup role. As far as losing either player when waived that's simply a function of the waiver system. If neither one of these two players separates themselves from one another, then the determining issue becomes who has more upside. 

Other teams are also wrestling with the same issue regarding waiver considerations. If we lose one of our goalies, then the market will provide another player, even if it is only for the short-term. 

@Thornyhas made the potent point that the Sabres are at a later stage in their rebuild where the primary consideration is player competition and not entitlement. There is no question that Levi is going to start the season as the primary goalie. Internal competition will decide who will be the backup. If one of our goalies is lost on waivers, I'm not going to consider it to be a major setback. It's the system that all franchises have to deal with. 

If anyone laments losing UPL or Comrie on waiver..look I’ll tell you right now I’m calling Shenanigans 

I guess Promo could be the exception 

[Taro T]

Just now, JohnC said:

I don't know who is going to be the backup to Levi. If Comrie demonstrates in camp and in the preseason that he is a better backup alternative than UPL, then so be it. And if UPL outperforms Comrie, then he will have earned the backup role. As far as losing either player when waived that's simply a function of the waiver system. If neither one of these two players separates themselves from one another, then the determining issue becomes who has more upside. 

Other teams are also wrestling with the same issue regarding waiver considerations. If we lose one of our goalies, then the market will provide another player, even if it is only for the short-term. 

@Thornyhas made the potent point that the Sabres are at a later stage in their rebuild where the primary consideration is player competition and not entitlement. There is no question that Levi is going to start the season as the primary goalie. Internal competition will decide who will be the backup. If one of our goalies is lost on waivers, I'm not going to consider it to be a major setback. It's the system that all franchises have to deal with. 

To the 1st bolded: Bales is getting paid the big bucks to help both of those backups reach their potential and if there is too little separation between them for them to do anything but look at potential and flipping a coin PERSONALLY would go with the guy who's floor is higher rather than the guy who's ceiling is higher.  They need to win TODAY, winning 3 years from now would be nice too (that's for @Thorny 😉) but isn't as important as winning today is.  And the backup that isn't going to give up the killer stinker goal/game has more value IMHO than the 1 that may have a S% that's 0.015 higher in 3 years than it is now.  

To the 2nd bolded, and this may be splitting hairs, but if Hellebucyk gets brought in, Levi is NOT the primary goalie.  If Saros gets brought in, Levi is NOT the primary goalie.  If Swayman or Ullmark gets brought in he probably / isn't the primary goalie.  We expect there to be no change in the status quo to the goaltending but being over 2-1/2 months out from the opening of the season it isn't a given.

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If anyone laments losing UPL or Comrie on waiver..look I’ll tell you right now I’m calling Shenanigans 

I guess Promo could be the exception 

Personally would be disappointed if Comrie is lost via waivers, but wouldn't lament it.

[JohnC]

40 minutes ago, Taro T said:

To the 1st bolded: Bales is getting paid the big bucks to help both of those backups reach their potential and if there is too little separation between them for them to do anything but look at potential and flipping a coin PERSONALLY would go with the guy who's floor is higher rather than the guy who's ceiling is higher.  They need to win TODAY, winning 3 years from now would be nice too (that's for @Thorny 😉) but isn't as important as winning today is.  And the backup that isn't going to give up the killer stinker goal/game has more value IMHO than the 1 that may have a S% that's 0.015 higher in 3 years than it is now.  

To the 2nd bolded, and this may be splitting hairs, but if Hellebucyk gets brought in, Levi is NOT the primary goalie.  If Saros gets brought in, Levi is NOT the primary goalie.  If Swayman or Ullmark gets brought in he probably / isn't the primary goalie.  We expect there to be no change in the status quo to the goaltending but being over 2-1/2 months out from the opening of the season it isn't a given.

Personally would be disappointed if Comrie is lost via waivers, but wouldn't lament it.

The "if" goalies you mentioned are an extreme longshot possibility to be wearing a Sabre uniform when the season starts. If you look at all the deals that KA has made during his tenure, it's apparent that he is not inclined to give up the assets that would be required to get the first two goalies you mentioned. 

I have said it before, the only decision that our GM has made that I have strenuously disagreed with is not re-signing Ullmark. It was a decision that I believe cost us a playoff spot last year. A goalie tandem of Ullmark/Levi would have made this team formidable. 

[LGR4GM]

25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The "if" goalies you mentioned are an extreme longshot possibility to be wearing a Sabre uniform when the season starts. If you look at all the deals that KA has made during his tenure, it's apparent that he is not inclined to give up the assets that would be required to get the first two goalies you mentioned. 

I have said it before, the only decision that our GM has made that I have strenuously disagreed with is not re-signing Ullmark. It was a decision that I believe cost us a playoff spot last year. A goalie tandem of Ullmark/Levi would have made this team formidable. 

Ullmark was a ufa. Adams didn't decide not to sign him, Ullmark decided to sign elsewhere. 

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I feel like I’m beating a dead horse but just because I guy was drafted high and at one time was “maybe” considered a prospect doesn’t mean Magic Don can fix him.

By all acceptable goaltending metrics UPL has had one “less then half season” in the ECHL were he wasn’t considered one of the leagues worst goalies. How long can we blame hip surgery and defensive systems? 
 

If Buffalo was going into this season with two “top end prospects” I wouldn’t be happy but I’d understand. To be going into this season hoping that Levi defies history and UPL suddenly becomes average is management malpractice, especially when there is a solution that only cost money, a draft choice and the team’s fifth best prospect.

I don't disagree. I have a hard time seeing UPL amount to more than a mediocre backup. 

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Ullmark was a ufa. Adams didn't decide not to sign him, Ullmark decided to sign elsewhere. 

 

I'm not disputing the fact that Ullmark was a UFA. Ullmark was willing to re-sign with the Sabres if they would have given him a contract that was more than what Boston offered and on a longer term, I believe a year longer. The GM was on a WGR show that I listened to and when asked why he didn't sign Ullmark, he said that what the goalie wanted was more than what he was willing to give him. In my view it was a consequential mistake. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

 

If Buffalo was going into this season with two “top end prospects” I wouldn’t be happy but I’d understand. To be going into this season hoping that Levi defies history and UPL suddenly becomes average is management malpractice, especially when there is a solution that only cost money, a draft choice and the team’s fifth best prospect.

To me this screams Gibson.

If it’s a first and Östlund I wouldn’t do it either. If it’s a 2nd and Rosen, sign me up.

In between, maybe that’s where a deal gets made.

[Derrico]

5 hours ago, tom webster said:

I feel like I’m beating a dead horse but just because I guy was drafted high and at one time was “maybe” considered a prospect doesn’t mean Magic Don can fix him.

By all acceptable goaltending metrics UPL has had one “less then half season” in the ECHL were he wasn’t considered one of the leagues worst goalies. How long can we blame hip surgery and defensive systems? 
 

If Buffalo was going into this season with two “top end prospects” I wouldn’t be happy but I’d understand. To be going into this season hoping that Levi defies history and UPL suddenly becomes average is management malpractice, especially when there is a solution that only cost money, a draft choice and the team’s fifth best prospect.

Right?  This is almost getting stupid at this point.  To have such a deep young team and rely on a rookie and….nothing behind him is crazy.  

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Curt said:

I think it’s kind of the opposite, even before he played in the AHL he was a highly regarded goalie prospect.  Being a fairly high draft pick and being dominant in the OHL.  I think his professional exposure actually dropped his stock.

idk, but if UPL got waived vs. Comrie got waived which would be more likely to be picked up (if either)? Comrie has already been an NHL back up. He might actually be the one more likely picked up. If either.