Has Casey Mittelstadt changed any minds?

[FrenchConnection44]

Reading all the comments I think we want to see Casey continue to play alongside Cozens and see what he does the next 20 games. Good points made about his improved play.
 

If he keeps up the recent trend he could be a player for us. I do think he still needs to be more physical. He’s not as weak as he was with contact. But still could add five+ more lbs of muscle/strength (as is the case to varying degrees with several players) and also become a bit more aggressive. Cozens can’t be the only non-finesse-only player on that line. If it’s Cozens-Quinn-Mitts, then Mitts has to be more aggressive with his speed, balance and physical play. It has improved, but still must continue. I want someone with Cozens who doesn’t just pass but creates some degree of physical intimidation. You want times to not be happy when the Cozens line comes on. Dylan is great in that way but he can’t be the only thorn in the side of defenders. 

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Cozens is a big, hard skating shoot first centre. He needs a playmaking winger to compliment his game. Mitts has filled that role very nicely. I would like to see Mitts-Cozens-Quinn when Tuch returns.

I'd like to see Tuch there but Quinn could also be a good third member for that line. 

Thinking of playoff hockey, I think Skinner is experienced enough to handle the rough stuff, Thommer has the size and Quinn is already pretty savvy.  The three of them together are very creative in their playmaking (not that Tuch isn't, but it's really clicking for Quinn right now).  If you put Tuch with Cozens and Mitts you have a line that might be able to out-physical just about any line in the league *and* score goals.  Either way though I think Quinn's first line experience would help him elevate the Cozens line if Tuch goes back to his old spot.

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Cozens can’t be the only non-finesse-only player on that line.

He's not.

[bob_sauve28]

He has obviously gotten physically stronger and it shows in his play. 

[FrenchConnection44]

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I'd like to see Tuch there but Quinn could also be a good third member for that line. 

Thinking of playoff hockey, I think Skinner is experienced enough to handle the rough stuff, Thommer has the size and Quinn is already pretty savvy.  The three of them together are very creative in their playmaking (not that Tuch isn't, but it's really clicking for Quinn right now).  If you put Tuch with Cozens and Mitts you have a line that might be able to out-physical just about any line in the league *and* score goals.  Either way though I think Quinn's first line experience would help him elevate the Cozens line if Tuch goes back to his old spot.

He's not.

I just don’t see it enough from Casey. Only on occasion. Not in the consistent way Cozens brings it. But that’s why the next 20 games are more pivotal for him imo, in how we perceive and evaluate his season (not that that means anything but just as fans). 

[TageMVP]

He has not 

[Doohickie]

16 minutes ago, tom webster said:

All that being said, I believe he will be the first “good” player that KA will have to trade assuming that all four of JJP, Quinn, Kulich and Savoie all end up being what most of us think they will be.

I disagree, and not just because of Mittelstadt's performance of late.  From all reports he's also a pretty good glue guy, a good locker room presence.  We've talked for years about the Eichel Era locker room being toxic and how prominent players from that era needed to be removed to improve the culture.  I think Casey might be part of the culture they're trying to foster and will keep him for that reason.

Trade VO.  Trade Jost.  Trade Hinostroza.  Retire KO.  Phase Girgs out after another year or two.  But keep Casey.

[RochesterExpat]

4 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

He has obviously gotten physically stronger and it shows in his play. 

2019 Mitts is not going to absorb the hit so he can play the puck to center. He'd have backed off or just tapped it down the board and kept is body away from the opposing player.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree, and not just because of Mittelstadt's performance of late.  From all reports he's also a pretty good glue guy, a good locker room presence.  We've talked for years about the Eichel Era locker room being toxic and how prominent players from that era needed to be removed to improve the culture.  I think Casey might be part of the culture they're trying to foster and will keep him for that reason.

Trade VO.  Trade Jost.  Trade Hinostroza.  Retire KO.  Phase Girgs out after another year or two.  But keep Casey.

Watch out the haters will be gunning for you.

[tom webster]

26 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree, and not just because of Mittelstadt's performance of late.  From all reports he's also a pretty good glue guy, a good locker room presence.  We've talked for years about the Eichel Era locker room being toxic and how prominent players from that era needed to be removed to improve the culture.  I think Casey might be part of the culture they're trying to foster and will keep him for that reason.

Trade VO.  Trade Jost.  Trade Hinostroza.  Retire KO.  Phase Girgs out after another year or two.  But keep Casey.

My vision of top 13

Tuch, Skinner, Tage, Quinn. Dylan, JJP, Krebs, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs, Some version of Greenway, Some version of Z, Traditional checking center.

This doesn’t even account for any other prospect that might exceed expectations. 

No room for Casey and with his play of late, he should bring in something good.

[Doohickie]

You list Krebs twice.

And... I simply don't agree with your vision.

[Night Train]

 He always seems snakebit. A bundle of nerves ? 

 Hustles, little question.. but the puck seems to roll up his stick or he just loses it when he's open. 

 Some players struggle badly to finish and he sticks out. 

 When you have a high number of promising young forward coming up in the next year or 2, you only have so much time to see if he comes around. or his only hope is to be dropped to the 4th line to be the next KO or Girgs. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

My vision of top 13

Tuch, Skinner, Tage, Quinn. Dylan, JJP, Krebs, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs, Some version of Greenway, Some version of Z, Traditional checking center.

This doesn’t even account for any other prospect that might exceed expectations. 

No room for Casey and with his play of late, he should bring in something good.

When?  23/24 or 24/25?  Don’t forget that Kulich and Savoie’s contracts slide another year if they don’t play in Buffalo next season.  

KA gets another evaluation year on guys like Casey, Jost and Greenway and another developmental season on Krebs, Quinn and JJP if he is patient with Kulich and Savoie. 

The pencilled in top 9, assuming no Kulich or Savoie, is Skinner, Tuch, Thompson, Casey, Cozens, Quinn, JJP, Krebs/Jost and Greenway.  The Greenway addition allows KA to trade VO this summer and allows KA to keep Z and KO another year if they want to return.  

After next season all bets are off.  

[Weave]

I think when the next wave of kids arrive Casey is going to be one of the guys that get pushed off to make room.  The good thing is, his performance has been plenty good enough that we’ll get solid value in return.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think when the next wave of kids arrive Casey is going to be one of the guys that get pushed off to make room.  The good thing is, his performance has been plenty good enough that we’ll get solid value in return.

And what if he goes for 70 pts next season?  Will that make it more or less likely he gets sent packing?

Casey has 12 pts (3g) in his last 12 games and now solidified himself as Cozens LW.  If he continues near this pace for the rest of the season, is he working himself into the core?  

Can we afford another $6 mill plus forward?  

[MattPie]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think when the next wave of kids arrive Casey is going to be one of the guys that get pushed off to make room.  The good thing is, his performance has been plenty good enough that we’ll get solid value in return.

It might not even be that easy for the kids to push him out if they can't play along the boards as recent-Casey has been. He appears to be solid middle-6 for awhile now, so there's no reason to jettison him until there's a good reason. And as you say, if he continues playing this well it could well be an NHL trade for something else the team needs if it happens, not just a pick or prospect.

[Weave]

Just now, MattPie said:

It might not even be that easy for the kids to push him out if they can't play along the boards as recent-Casey has been. He appears to be solid middle-6 for awhile now, so there's no reason to jettison him until there's a good reason. And as you say, if he continues playing this well it could well be an NHL trade for something else the team needs if it happens, not just a pick or prospect.

I mostly agree.  I don’t see him as a core player, and I don’t think the team does either.  He’ll either be moved in a hockey trade to fill a more pressing hole or to get a different look to the team, or he’ll be replaced by an ELC player in the next wave.  All of his effectiveness doesn’t need to be replaced by a rook.  It may come down to a contract/value equation when that new guy is ready.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, MattPie said:

And as you say, if he continues playing this well it could well be an NHL trade for something else the team needs if it happens, not just a pick or prospect.

I’m not in favor of trading Casey this summer, but if KA could trade him in a hockey trade to get a better partner for Power he’d have to consider it.  

Casey’s improved work along the boards has been a huge piece of his improvement and asking a 20 year kid to win those battles consistently is asking a lot.  It’s why KA brought in Greenway and why I think Casey plays out his contract next season at the very least.  That gives KA another season to see if JJP or Kulich or whomever is ready.  

As I wrote up thread however KA can delay making hard decisions on the forwards next season, but in 24/25 some really hard choices will have to be made.  

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, tom webster said:

My vision of top 13

Tuch, Skinner, Tage, Quinn. Dylan, JJP, Krebs, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs, Some version of Greenway, Some version of Z, Traditional checking center.

This doesn’t even account for any other prospect that might exceed expectations. 

No room for Casey and with his play of late, he should bring in something good.

When the next wave of kids force their way into the lineup then Adams has some interesting work to do.  And it is quite possible that Mittelstadt isn't the piece moved if somebody else that brings a comparable level of play to what he does can bring back significantly more in trade.  

[The Jokeman]

Going into the season I thought Casey was better than Dylan. I was obviously wrong but still like the kid. Yet he might not have a long term chance here.

[DarthEbriate]

It started last season when he started reverse-checking folks along the boards. I think there was one in particular --- maybe the outdoor game? --- that was a beauty. He's learning to play with his adult strength and his board battles have turned into consistent wins. He's a NHL-caliber middle 6 guy and would fit there (or higher, say, CHI) nicely on any roster in the League. Mitts still has things he can refine (i.e., shot, own-zone coverage, consistency) but he's become a good player.

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, Night Train said:

When is his contract up ?  Then we'll know how the GM feels about him. 

Good call.  He's an RFA after next season, so they have time to see how he continues to develop before they are forced to make a decision.

 

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I think when the next wave of kids arrive Casey is going to be one of the guys that get pushed off to make room.  The good thing is, his performance has been plenty good enough that we’ll get solid value in return.

This certainly could be the outcome, but it's far from certain that any of JJP, Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, etc. will be good enough to displace Mitts, especially if he continues to develop.

 

Separately:  as to the OP, my view on Mitts, like on most young players, has been that although disappointing, the Sabres shouldn't rush to dump him until they are forced to make a decision due to contract status or roster pinch.  Having said that, I have been pretty skeptical that he was going to develop into a viable NHL player -- and in that sense, yes, my mind has changed. 

He's improved quite a bit in his decisions and his strength on the puck even over the course of this season, to the point where is usually a net positive, and IMHO has played the best hockey of his career since being moved to Cozens' wing.  He still frequently makes boneheaded decisions, and his goalscoring needs to improve, but I can see him continuing to improve under DM to the point where I am very happy for him to be Cozens' permanent LW -- and a few months ago I sure didn't think I would ever feel that way about him.

I wouldn't expect the Sabres to give him an extension this summer, especially because he's an RFA after next season, but it's quite possible that he'll continue to develop and play well enough next year to earn one.  And if that happens, Kulich, Savoie, etc will need to be pretty GD impressive to displace him.

[JustOneParade]

Casey with Cozens and Quinn will be an increasingly effective line - and they're pretty good now (when Tuch was available). At some point in the near future I see Savoie centering Kulich and JJP. That line will be fun to watch too.

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This certainly could be the outcome, but it's far from certain that any of JJP, Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, etc. will be good enough to displace Mitts, especially if he continues to develop.

 

See my next post down.  The new guy wouldn’t necessarily need to replace all of what Mitts brings.  They rarely do right off the bat.  It often comes down to a contract/value/ or maybe a specific trait that results in non core players moving.

[SwampD]

I like Casey. Always have. He’s definitely better at wing and I think it’s because of this perception.

4 hours ago, pastajoe said:

He’d be a superstar in a non-checking league, but the fact is he’s too slight and gets knocked off the puck too often. I hoped they would have traded him for an upgrade on defense and opened his roster spot for a prospect with a higher upside. 

This only happens in open ice for him, which happened more often when he played center. As a winger, on the boards, he rarely doesn’t come away with the puck or make a seeing eye pass. Probably why he has so many assists this year.

And ftr, I think because of this, would be horrible in a non-checking league.

[French Collection]

He deserves to play until a youngster forces him out.

He has improved his game, he needs to work on his shot and trust it more. He’s homegrown and wants to be in Buffalo. The chemistry he is developing with Cozens is a good thing, and a pairing that can still improve.

Casey is far from a favourite of mine but as much as I want Savoie, Kulich or another young gun move into the top 6, they will need time and have to earn it.

If he can be extended on a reasonable deal, that makes him a more valuable piece when the time comes to move him. He could also be the leader of a very good third line in a few years.

VO can go ASAP.