Which Sabre Benefited Most Last Season from Granato Taking Over As Coach? And Who Will Emerge This Season?

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He can succeed if he makes the transition, I just don't think he will consistently be able to make that transition. He's going to end up a tweener that keeps getting chances because he's tall. 

You might be right.

Let’s not overlook the transition from the awkward giraffe Botts finally mercifully sent down, to the 25-ish goal scorer we saw at the finish with Donnie took place over just 24 games under Chris Taylor and a similar amount riding the pine under Krueger.

He’s been around for a while, but he hasn’t actually played a lot.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You might be right.

Let’s not overlook the transition from the awkward giraffe Botts finally mercifully sent down, to the 25-ish goal scorer we saw at the finish with Donnie took place over just 24 games under Chris Taylor and a similar amount riding the pine under Krueger.

He’s been around for a while, but he hasn’t actually played a lot.

Sloooooooooow done. Let's get 4 year pro Tage Thompson to 15 goals first. 

[LGR4GM]

Tage has played 54 AHL games, 145 NHL games, 1811 NHL minutes. At some point, like with Mitts, we should see it click for more than a solitary shift or play. 

His career sh% is 7.4% and only jumped up to 8.3% last season. 

[PerreaultForever]

Tage will only succeed if he keeps adding muscle and uses that big frame. Starts throwing the weight around a little. Those outside wrist shots of his are never going to amount to anything at the NHL level. Just keeping the goalies warmed up, nothing more. Unfortunately, Tage does not seem to have the personality to go with a power forward game style. But, it's not too late - yet. 

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Tage has played 54 AHL games, 145 NHL games, 1811 NHL minutes. At some point, like with Mitts, we should see it click for more than a solitary shift or play. 

His career sh% is 7.4% and only jumped up to 8.3% last season. 

So the 7 goals in 21 games to finish the year wasn’t any kind of “click”?

He certainly looked a lot better to me than he did when Botts sent him down 40-50 games earlier.

Edited July 19, 2021 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

You might be right.

Let’s not overlook the transition from the awkward giraffe Botts finally mercifully sent down, to the 25-ish goal scorer we saw at the finish with Donnie took place over just 24 games under Chris Taylor and a similar amount riding the pine under Krueger.

He’s been around for a while, but he hasn’t actually played a lot.

The injury season was a huge setback for someone who was clearly dominate in the AHL.  

KO's injury was also a big setback to another player that looked rejuvenated under Granato.  Putting up 9 points in 12 games under DG was the best hockey he had played for us since his first season here.

 

 

[LabattBlue]

I’m very leary that players who improved a lot after DG took over, will continue those big leaps. Why?  Because how much of a structured system did DG use last year, versus just telling them to go play and don’t worry about making mistakes.

We will find out come October.  

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

So the 7 goals in 21 games to finish the year wasn’t any kind of “click”?

He certainly looked a lot better to me than he did when Botts sent him down 40-50 games earlier.

He looked the same to me but we'll find out this season

[PerreaultForever]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He looked the same to me but we'll find out this season

Couple games I thought he was showing signs of being what we hope, but then pretty much the same after that, like you said. 

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, Taro T said:

Which Sabre benefitted the most?  Reinhart.  Hands down.  Granato gave him an extra $2MM/year on his next contract by his usage easily.  Nobody else got more directly from that coaching change than Sam will have gotten.

Would expect that should he get time w/ the big club that Quinn will benefit the most this coming season as he would either not have gotten the callup with Krueger still the HC or if he did, he'd find himself attached at the hip to Eakin.  Either way, Granato will be a benefit to him.

I can agree with Reino but probably not to the tune of 2 mil per year. What's he going to get, 8? I don't think he was in line for 6 mil on a LT deal. 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

So the 7 goals in 21 games to finish the year wasn’t any kind of “click”?

He certainly looked a lot better to me than he did when Botts sent him down 40-50 games earlier.

It could be, but 7 goals in 21 games can also easily be a "blip". Tiny sample size during meaningless games. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I can agree with Reino but probably not to the tune of 2 mil per year. What's he going to get, 8? I don't think he was in line for 6 mil on a LT deal. 

So, $1.5MM from $5.5MM to $7MM.  At any rate, really doubt Granato put more $'s in anybody's pocket than Reinhart.  (Well, not including himself.  Going from  assistant coach to HC probably put at least that much into Don's pocket as well.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

So, $1.5MM from $5.5MM to $7MM.  At any rate, really doubt Granato put more $'s in anybody's pocket than Reinhart.  (Well, not including himself.  Going from  assistant coach to HC probably put at least that much into Don's pocket as well.

Oh I was thinking he was at 7 coming in 

[rakish]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

Which Sabre benefitted the most?  Reinhart.  Hands down.  Granato gave him an extra $2MM/year on his next contract by his usage easily.  Nobody else got more directly from that coaching change than Sam will have gotten.

Would expect that should he get time w/ the big club that Quinn will benefit the most this coming season as he would either not have gotten the callup with Krueger still the HC or if he did, he'd find himself attached at the hip to Eakin.  Either way, Granato will be a benefit to him.

Dave, I'm interested in your usage theory, I've talked about it a little bit, is this from me, or is it something you saw on your own?

[nfreeman]

I voted Mitts for last season, since he went from being a completely useless sack of flesh on the ice to someone who looked like he could develop into a Derek Roy type -- i.e. a credible 3C who isn't what you want at 1C or 2C and is probably useless in the playoffs but can center a lower-lineup scoring line, put up numbers in the regular season and take some pressure off the top 6.

I said Cozens for this coming season, mostly out of hope that he has a great season that will contrast with an injury-marred rookie year in which he showed flashes but didn't produce much.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I voted Mitts for last season, since he went from being a completely useless sack of flesh on the ice to someone who looked like he could develop into a Derek Roy type -- i.e. a credible 3C who isn't what you want at 1C or 2C and is probably useless in the playoffs but can center a lower-lineup scoring line, put up numbers in the regular season and take some pressure off the top 6.

I said Cozens for this coming season, mostly out of hope that he has a great season that will contrast with an injury-marred rookie year in which he showed flashes but didn't produce much.

LOL at the bold. Talk about damning with faint praise.

In other news, Derek Roy was a very good NHL 2C. Over a 5-year stretch post Briere he was the 18th-highest scoring centre in the NHL.

Be very happy if Mitts could become a Roy.

Edited July 20, 2021 by dudacek

[Weave]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

LOL at the bold. Talk about damning with faint praise.

In other news, Derek Roy was a very good NHL 2C. Over a 5-year stretch post Briere he was the 18th-highest scoring centre in the NHL.

Be very happy if Mitts could become a Roy.

I think Brian Holzinger is more likely.  Derek Plante ceiling.

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

LOL at the bold. Talk about damning with faint praise.

In other news, Derek Roy was a very good NHL 2C. Over a 5-year stretch post Briere he was the 18th-highest scoring centre in the NHL.

Be very happy if Mitts could become a Roy.

Damning with faint praise was exactly my intention.  We all have our whipping boys -- I'll freely admit that Roy was one of mine.

But I don't think he by any stretch was a "very good NHL 2C."  More like a guy who could put up good empty-calorie numbers in the regular season on a high-scoring team.

However, I agree that Mitts becoming another Roy would be a good outcome for Mitts given where he was before DG took over.

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Damning with faint praise was exactly my intention.  We all have our whipping boys -- I'll freely admit that Roy was one of mine.

But I don't think he by any stretch was a "very good NHL 2C."  More like a guy who could put up good empty-calorie numbers in the regular season on a high-scoring team.

However, I agree that Mitts becoming another Roy would be a good outcome for Mitts given where he was before DG took over.

Disagree.  Roy was a good 2C.  He played in a time when 2C was the easy minutes guy.  3C was the checking line duty guy and 4C was expected to drop the gloves occasionally or was a kid working his way into the lineup.  Because the last two C roles don’t really exist anymore Roy wouldn’t necessarily be a good 2C today, but he’d be a passable one.

[Taro T]

22 hours ago, rakish said:

Dave, I'm interested in your usage theory, I've talked about it a little bit, is this from me, or is it something you saw on your own?

Don't believe it's from you.  It's what we saw with Krueger starting Cozens off on Eakin's wing and his tending to bury the kids.  Mittelstadt starting the year on the taxi squad and then playing on a line where he'd have to generate any O he produced pretty much independently.  As just a couple of examples.

But, maybe it was a Robin Williams sort of thing.  He lost a plagiarism lawsuit for stealing jokes he'd heard waiting to go onstage in comedy clubs.  Claimed, and it was plausible, that he didn't even realize he'd heard the jokes.  (He did have quite the coke habit at one time.)  His solution to avoid similar situations was to stay out of the clubs until just before he went on.

Don't believe my views came from here, but don't doubt some like you or @Randall Flagg can & have helped color them.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Taro T

[rakish]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Don't believe it's from you.  It's what we saw with Krueger starting Cozens off on Eakin's wing and his tending to bury the kids.  Mittelstadt starting the year on the taxi squad and then playing on a line where he'd have to generate any O he produced pretty much independently.  As just a couple of examples.

But, maybe it was a Robin Williams sort of thing.  He lost a plagiarism lawsuit for stealing jokes he'd heard waiting to go onstage in comedy clubs.  Claimed, and it was plausible, that he didn't even realize he'd heard the jokes.  (He did have quite the coke habit at one time.)  His solution to avoid similar situations was to stay out of the clubs until just before he went on.

Don't believe my views came from here, but don't doubt some like you or @Randall Flagg can & have helped color them.

It's kind of exciting when someone sees the same thing live that I see in the data.