If you were GMKA, what is the most you would pay Reinhart to extend?

[nfreeman]

@tom webster — I think you may be defining “bridge deal” differently from its common usage.  I think most people think of bridge deals as short-term deals bridging the gap between rookie deal and long-term third deal.  

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@tom webster — I think you may be defining “bridge deal” differently from its common usage.  I think most people think of bridge deals as short-term deals bridging the gap between rookie deal and long-term third deal.  

Yup. So far, all we've done is walk Sam as close as possible to UFA, without going all the way. 

It's worrisome because he's been here through so much bad, we've developed him this long, it would suck to lose him in his prime right when we might finally be on the verge of paying him to be on a GOOD team

[tom webster]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@tom webster — I think you may be defining “bridge deal” differently from its common usage.  I think most people think of bridge deals as short-term deals bridging the gap between rookie deal and long-term third deal.  

No, I may have mis-spoken but I define them the same way and still contend that they are not as prevalent as implied. Like everyone acknowledged, Sam is the only miss for the Sabres. Most guys don’t warrant long term deals after their ELC and most of the ones that do, don’t accept a “bargain” rate. What if Sam and his reps would only sign a long term deal if it was equal to Skinner? Is it the teams fault for not accepting those terms?

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, tom webster said:

No, I may have mis-spoken but I define them the same way and still contend that they are not as prevalent as implied. Like everyone acknowledged, Sam is the only miss for the Sabres. Most guys don’t warrant long term deals after their ELC and most of the ones that do, don’t accept a “bargain” rate. What if Sam and his reps would only sign a long term deal if it was equal to Skinner? Is it the teams fault for not accepting those terms?

No, but I was looking for the deal at the same time Ehlers got locked up and that was in 2018, before Skinner got here

I think the dye was cast once he got his initial bridge

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No, but I was looking for the deal at the same time Ehlers got locked up and that was in 2018, before Skinner got here

I think the dye was cast once he got his initial bridge

I agree with this. If they could have gotten the Ehlers deal, they should definitely have done that.

[dudacek]

Let's not discount the bargain contracts the Sabres have signed Reinhart to already:

Cap hit/Points

• $.9/42
• $.9/47
• $.9/50
• $3.6/65
• $3.6/59* (prorated)
• $5.2/59* (prorated)

You'd be hard-pressed to find many more productive players per cap hit in the entire league over the past 6 years.

Yet another thing overlooked by the Sam haters.

[Thorny]

^ the perils of going bridge and getting it wrong. 

short term benefit and then a sticky situation after

[dudacek]

Did we know that since Jan. 1, 2018, Sam Reinhart is the 47th highest-scoring player in the NHL?

He's 32nd in goals, just behind Paccioretty and just ahead of Huberdeau and Malkin.

Remember when people used to say he wasn't a 1st-line player? Good times.

[Thorny]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Did we know that since Jan. 1, 2018, Sam Reinhart is the 47th highest-scoring player in the NHL?

He's 32nd in goals, just behind Paccioretty and just ahead of Huberdeau and Malkin.

Remember when people used to say he wasn't a 1st-line player? Good times.

So he must be 45 or better for just forwards. 

So, not only a first line player, an above average one, if his D has held up 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Thorny

[tom webster]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Did we know that since Jan. 1, 2018, Sam Reinhart is the 47th highest-scoring player in the NHL?

He's 32nd in goals, just behind Paccioretty and just ahead of Huberdeau and Malkin.

Remember when people used to say he wasn't a 1st-line player? Good times.

It’s like Pierre Turgeon, like I’ve said before. I like Sam, I like him a lot. He’s a guy I want him on my team as long as he is my 3rd or 4th best forward.

[Radar]

44 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s like Pierre Turgeon, like I’ve said before. I like Sam, I like him a lot. He’s a guy I want him on my team as long as he is my 3rd or 4th best forward.

Well he's the second best.

[Radar]

20 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

And if they have to give him 7 years and stupid aav along with a NMC he needs to be traded.

Then you will complain "we need a forward".  You don't improve your team by trading your best players.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Radar

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

Well he's the second best.

Hopefully Cozens relegates him to third best, then they got something

[Zamboni]

Would KA walk away, if Reinharts demands for his next contract are ...

7 or 8 year deal. No less.

7.5 mil per, no NTC or NMC

OR

6.5 mil per, NMC kicks in after year 2. If Sam wants out, he gets to choose what team or teams exactly like Hall did.

 

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Would KA walk away, if Reinharts demands for his next contract are ...

7 or 8 year deal. No less.

7.5 mil per, no NTC or NMC

OR

6.5 mil per, NMC kicks in after year 2. If Sam wants out, he gets to choose what team or teams exactly like Hall did.

 

 

I'd negotiate him to 7x7mil with a NTC-15 team

[Zamboni]

25 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I'd negotiate him to 7x7mil with a NTC-15 team

LOL .... thaaaats not what I asked, but thanks anyway 😏

[Radar]

11 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

You also dont get better by boxing yourself into stupid contracts that are longer than the player is useful. That's how you get where we are now.

While I agree with your position unfortunately owners are willing to spend. So to complete that means spend. Look at how over priced free agency is. That's what your competing with. Hockey with it's guaranteed contracts is much different than say football.

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, tom webster said:

Hopefully Cozens relegates him to third best, then they got something

Hopefully Quinn relegates him to 4th best in time

Edited April 25, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Thorny]

13 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Would KA walk away, if Reinharts demands for his next contract are ...

7 or 8 year deal. No less.

7.5 mil per, no NTC or NMC

OR

6.5 mil per, NMC kicks in after year 2. If Sam wants out, he gets to choose what team or teams exactly like Hall did.

 

I definitely take the second deal

It's only an "if" that Sam would ask out, and whatever hypothetical hit we take by him having a NMC in that process, is worth gambling on right now IMO if we can get Sam locked up LT at a price like that. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Not sure why you're skeptical of that. Jack Quinn didn't score 52 goals in the ohl without talent. 

[tom webster]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Hopefully Quinn relegates him to 4th best in time

I have a question for you. Given what you think of our prospects, do you think this line up is a Cup contender in two years.

Skinner - Jack - Sam

JJ - Cozens - Quinn

Artu - Casey - TT

Zemgus - Asplund - Hyman

 

Ryan Johnson- Dahlin(switching to right)

Samuelsson - Joker

McCabe - Borgen

UPL

Portillo

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Not sure why you're skeptical of that. Jack Quinn didn't score 52 goals in the ohl without talent. 

Reinhart was really good in junior too, over a larger time frame, and was a 2nd overall pick. I'm seeing a bonafide above-average top line winger in the League right now, that's not something I'd project as likely on it's face for Quinn to achieve. Of course I'm "hopeful" he'll do it, too, and that's the word you used.

Even Cozens is no guarantee to surpass Reinhart, and I'm cautious there too, but that falls more on the side of cautiously optimistic, for me. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I have a question for you. Given what you think of our prospects, do you think this line up is a Cup contender in two years.

Skinner - Jack - Sam

JJ - Cozens - Quinn

Artu - Casey - TT

Zemgus - Asplund - Hyman

 

Ryan Johnson- Dahlin(switching to right)

Samuelsson - Joker

McCabe - Borgen

UPL

Portillo

I wouldn't switch Dahlin. I'd give him Borgen. 

But that defense is really good and your 2nd line in 3 years could be lethal. By then McCabe is probably the 7th defender.

It's definitely a playoff team. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Reinhart was really good in junior too, over a larger time frame, and was a 2nd overall pick. I'm seeing a bonafide above-average top line winger in the League right now, that's not something I'd project as likely on it's face for Quinn to achieve. Of course I'm "hopeful" he'll do it, too, and that's the word you used.

Even Cozens is no guarantee to surpass Reinhart, and I'm cautious there too, but that falls more on the side of cautiously optimistic, for me. 

Reinhart is very good. He's improved every year. Forget where he was drafted, it's irrelevant and focus on when he'll be in his prime (now). In his prime he's a 30g 35a player I think at his peak. I think Quinn can do that and I think Quinn has more talent than Sam did coming in (skating, shooting). We need Quinn to overtake Reinhart if we want to be cup contenders. 

[Thorny]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I wouldn't switch Dahlin. I'd give him Borgen. 

But that defense is really good and your 2nd line in 3 years could be lethal. By then McCabe is probably the 7th defender.

It's definitely a playoff team. 

Same. Dahlin will be a top 2/3 value contributing asset on this team at that time, I'd rather not mitigate any of it by making his job more difficult. If he can play RHD seamlessly, sure, but even though plenty of young D play on their off-side before the NHL, it's very uncommon in the NHL for the top pair/top guys to do that.