If you were GMKA, what is the most you would pay Reinhart to extend?

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sure, but he would have paid more than Adams would have had to last year. That’s circumstance, not any great Botterill foresight. Also, in 2019, Botterill still had leverage in 2020 as a fallback. Adams did not in 2020 and Sam has the power this year.

But given what Tom, said about Sam not wanting term, he may have already decided a year ago to keep the door open for moving on.

More, but still less than he is going to get, now, if he gets anything from us - there's a reasonably high likelihood we end up having to deal him. Botterill doesn't get let off the hook if we lose a now top 20 goal scorer because Adams could have gotten him for even less.

I'm looking for who could have achieved the scenario of Reinhart on a LT team friendly deal, and that was Botterill, maybe Adams, but definitely Botterill.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

More, but still less than he is going to get, now, if he gets anything from us - there's a reasonably high likelihood we end up having to deal him. Botterill doesn't get let off the hook if we lose a now top 20 goal scorer because Adams could have gotten him for even less.

Im just not so sure about that with the flat cap.

If the flat cap tendencies hold, who is going to give Sam $6 million+ and term?

I think Sam’s a better player, but Toffoli’s 4x4.25 is an interesting comparable, as is Mantha’s 4x5.75.

Most of us were debating 6 or 7 over 6 or seven for Sam before COVID.

 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Im just not so sure about that with the flat cap.

If the flat cap tendencies hold, who is going to give Sam $6 million+ and term?

I think Sam’s a better player, but Toffoli’s 4x4.25 is an interesting comparable, as is Mantha’s 4x5.75.

Most of us were debating 6 or 7 over 6 or seven for Sam before COVID.

 

I had him higher, though, if you remember. 

I bet he gets 6+. Especially now as a centre, a position Toffoli and Mantha don't play

Reinhart is also better than both of them, and younger. Especially Tofolli

[dudacek]

Based strictly on the money the Sabres offer him a $30-35 million deal would he be foolish not to take it?

Or is there a better contract out there in the summer of 22?

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I thought he seemed like Reinhart.

A fist pump, an acknowledgement of the guys, and back to business.

Again, not dismissing your overarching point - I’ve thought he is gone since he signed his one-year deal - but I see no evidence that it’s affected his game, or his on-ice behaviour.

And this. 

If that's the case, it's fine to hold KA accountable, but it still got to that point because of JB. He's certainly not blameless. 

[tom webster]

26 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That certainly doesn't make it a "narrative" 

Point taken, considered, without further comment, although technically, I guess I just commented.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Based strictly on the money the Sabres offer him a $30-35 million deal would he be foolish not to take it?

Or is there a better contract out there in the summer of 22?

Probably. His production only will get better with an improved team around him, I'd guess. I wouldn't be afraid to wait if I was him, he's Iron Man. And theoretically the budgets will open a bit by then? But unsure about that.

Regardless, I think 5 years x 6 is quite easily achieved for him on a bidding market. Matthew Perreault makes over 4 mil here in Winnipeg. 6 Mil is nothing for a player as good as Sam. I honestly think we are underselling his value, even with a lower cap

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

Point taken, considered, without further comment, although technically, I guess I just commented.

So the guy who didn't sign him to a LT deal when he could, isn't responsible at least somewhat if we lose the player. 

I'd rather fall prey to the narrative, than that line of thinking, full disclosure 

[Thorny]

Ehlers at 7 years x 6 is a good starting point. Same draft year even

Oh and Cheveldayoff signed him to that off his ELC. And now they have a bargain contract. Unheard of around here, I know, and we can't possible have expected our GM to make that move at the time

Edited April 24, 2021 by Thorny

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ehlers at 7 years x 6 is a good starting point. Same draft year even

Oh and Cheveldayoff signed him to that off his ELC. And now they have a bargain contract. Unheard of around here, I know, and we can't possible have expected our GM to make that move at the time

Eichel was a bargain. TT will be a huge bargain if play the last three weeks is any indication. 
Since Briere and Drury, who should they have locked up instead of going bridge?

Sam will be a bargain if he signs for term. Same with Dahlin. Anybody signed for term will be a huge bargain when cap goes to $90M in two or three years.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Eichel was a bargain. TT will be a huge bargain if play the last three weeks is any indication. 
Since Briere and Drury, who should they have locked up instead of going bridge?

Sam will be a bargain if he signs for term. Same with Dahlin. Anybody signed for term will be a huge bargain when cap goes to $90M in two or three years.

Reinhart

He's probably going to get traded 

Eichel is a good contract, it's not a "bargain"

Certainly not for the duration of the deal, so far. He's the 8th highest paid forward in the league, right now, NM when the deal was signed. Has he been the 8th best forward in the league the last 3 years? I think just last season. Even then, to be a "bargain" he'd need to be playing well above that level 

So....of deals signed: Thompson, and that's a maybe. Not a huge list. It's actually not even a list lol

Edited April 24, 2021 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

46 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Why would the Sabres want to sign him for 2 years and lose him to UFA?

Well, if Reino refuses to sign for longer than 2 years, it’s fairly likely that the Sabres would decide that they’d rather sign him to a 2-year deal than be forced to trade him this summer.  I think that would probably be the right decision from the Sabres’ perspective.  

[tom webster]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Reinhart

He's probably going to get traded 

Eichel is a good contract, it's not a "bargain"

Certainly not for the duration of the deal, so far. He's the 8th highest paid forward in the league, right now, NM when the deal was signed. Has he been the 8th best forward in the league the last 3 years? I think just last season. Even then, to be a "bargain" he'd need to be playing well above that level 

So....of deals signed: Thompson, and that's a maybe. Not a huge list. It's actually not even a list lol

How many players not on Tampa are true bargains? You are not going to find a lot of teams with multiple bargains.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, tom webster said:

How many players not on Tampa are true bargains? You are not going to find a lot of teams with multiple bargains.

We don't have any! 

I just named Ehlers and that was off the top of my head

Scheifele

[tom webster]

Just now, Thorny said:

We don't have any! 

I just named Ehlers and that was off the top of my head

Without looking I’ll bet half the teams don’t have any, maybe more. Bridge deals are a gamble and one that has been used more sparingly once players realized it wasn’t smart.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Without looking I’ll bet half the teams don’t have any, maybe more. Bridge deals are a gamble and one that has been used more sparingly once players realized it wasn’t smart.

Ok, I'll do the work

[tom webster]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ok, I'll do the work

I’ll save you a little time. Barkov and Pasta are the two best bargains.

Also, please count how many mistakes were made as well.

Edited April 24, 2021 by tom webster

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I’ll save you a little time. Barkov and Pasta are the two best bargains.

I wanna see if it's half the teams

[nfreeman]

35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Based strictly on the money the Sabres offer him a $30-35 million deal would he be foolish not to take it?

Or is there a better contract out there in the summer of 22?

I’ll answer by saying the Sabres will probably offer at least $40MM and that he would be foolish to say no, because there won’t be much more cap space out there next summer.

I do think there is a case to be made from Reino’s perspective to signing for, say, 2 years x $7MM per year, because I think there will be quite a bit more cap space available in 2023.  
 

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Without looking I’ll bet half the teams don’t have any, maybe more. Bridge deals are a gamble and one that has been used more sparingly once players realized it wasn’t smart.

Well, if I may direct you to the OP, which names quite a few major bargains, including MacKinnon, Marchand and Barkov:

 

- The forward with the 62nd-highest average annual salary, Alex DeBrincat, makes $6.4MM per year.  The 82nd-highest-paid forward is Alex Barkov at $5.9MM.

- Other forwards in the top 55-to-65 salary range are:  Laine, Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Stastny, Kreider, Brayden Schenn, Brendan Gallagher, Stepan, Monahan, MacKinnon (!), Radulov, Marchand (!) and Scheifele (!).

- Other forwards in the top 75-to-85 salary range are:  Lucic, KO, Timo Meier, RNH, Ehlers, Brock Nelson, Forsberg, William Karlsson, Huberdeau, Dustin Brown, Cam Atkinson and Brock Boeser.

 

 

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ok, I'll do the work

Gonna stop now forgot about the OG list

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I’ll answer by saying the Sabres will probably offer at least $40MM and that he would be foolish to say no, because there won’t be much more cap space out there next summer.

I do think there is a case to be made from Reino’s perspective to signing for, say, 2 years x $7MM per year, because I think there will be quite a bit more cap space available in 2023.  
 

Well, if I may direct you to the OP, which names quite a few major bargains, including MacKinnon, Marchand and Barkov:

 

- The forward with the 62nd-highest average annual salary, Alex DeBrincat, makes $6.4MM per year.  The 82nd-highest-paid forward is Alex Barkov at $5.9MM.

- Other forwards in the top 55-to-65 salary range are:  Laine, Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Stastny, Kreider, Brayden Schenn, Brendan Gallagher, Stepan, Monahan, MacKinnon (!), Radulov, Marchand (!) and Scheifele (!).

- Other forwards in the top 75-to-85 salary range are:  Lucic, KO, Timo Meier, RNH, Ehlers, Brock Nelson, Forsberg, William Karlsson, Huberdeau, Dustin Brown, Cam Atkinson and Brock Boeser.

 

 

Got these 2 though when I started in the North

Draisaitl - 8.5 per

Linholm, Calgary - 4.8 per

Edited April 24, 2021 by Thorny

[tom webster]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I’ll answer by saying the Sabres will probably offer at least $40MM and that he would be foolish to say no, because there won’t be much more cap space out there next summer.

I do think there is a case to be made from Reino’s perspective to signing for, say, 2 years x $7MM per year, because I think there will be quite a bit more cap space available in 2023.  
 

Well, if I may direct you to the OP, which names quite a few major bargains, including MacKinnon, Marchand and Barkov:

 

- The forward with the 62nd-highest average annual salary, Alex DeBrincat, makes $6.4MM per year.  The 82nd-highest-paid forward is Alex Barkov at $5.9MM.

- Other forwards in the top 55-to-65 salary range are:  Laine, Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Stastny, Kreider, Brayden Schenn, Brendan Gallagher, Stepan, Monahan, MacKinnon (!), Radulov, Marchand (!) and Scheifele (!).

- Other forwards in the top 75-to-85 salary range are:  Lucic, KO, Timo Meier, RNH, Ehlers, Brock Nelson, Forsberg, William Karlsson, Huberdeau, Dustin Brown, Cam Atkinson and Brock Boeser.

 

 

These are not all the result of bridge deals. Obviously there are a lot of bargain deals. Everyone signed last off season was a bargain, except Hall.

[Thorny]

I think the barometer for proving it's really quite possible has been satisfied

No reason I can't count it as a strike against Botterill, for not getting him locked up 

[Buffalonill]

You can't let him sign for 2 years he will go  Down dramatically in trade value.

Just move him if he won't sign long term.

 And whatever you do don't let this man get to arbitration

22 minutes ago, tom webster said:

How many players not on Tampa are true bargains? You are not going to find a lot of teams with multiple bargains.

Sean Couturier

[tom webster]

Just now, Thorny said:

I think the barometer for proving it's really quite possible has been satisfied

No reason I can't count it as a strike against Botterill, for not getting him locked up 

I already acknowledged he should have locked him up but that the team may luck into getting a bargain because of economics of the time.

And I will stick to my point that 90% of the teams have signed one or less “bargain” bridge deals. The argument to the contrary is similar to those that say Buffalo never finds gems in the later rounds of the draft when they have hit as much if not more then the league average.

[Buffalonill]

Btw MacKinnon has the best contract 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I already acknowledged he should have locked him up but that the team may luck into getting a bargain because of economics of the time.

And I will stick to my point that 90% of the teams have signed one or less “bargain” bridge deals. The argument to the contrary is similar to those that say Buffalo never finds gems in the later rounds of the draft when they have hit as much if not more then the league average.

First i've heard of it in this thread 

What do you mean by 'bargain bridge'? A guy like Ehlers did not get a bridge - that's what I wanted for Sam. At the time.