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Defense 2020-21


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3 hours ago, jsb said:

Narrative: definition: a spoken or written account of connected events; a story. No where in the definition does it imply an untruth or mob mentality etc....

As for Risto being a 3rd pairing DMan, please explain to me why all 4 of his NHL coaches since his rookie year has he led the team in TOI? Why hasn't the generational, future Norris trophy winner not been able to get more TOI than him which of course implies that he's not as good yet. Eichel has been the admitted best forward on the team and he gets the most TOI at that position accordingly so why would professional coaches who forgot more about hockey than anyone on this site knows play Risto the most? Just asking before my head explodes... 😀😀

 

Three out of those four are no longer employed as head coaches and the fourth has a losing record. 


Risto did not lead the Sabres Defenseman in TOI Until his third season which was 2015 2016. 
 

Eichel did not lead all forwards in ice time until His Fourth Season, and even then averaged 40 seconds less per game TOI than Rookie Rasmus Dahlin. His Fifth Season he was finally second on the Team in TOI. 
 

Dahlin Entering his Third season Should start to see an increase in ice time to be the Sabres leader at the defensive position. With his pack moving skills he should see more time on the penalty kill and as a sidenote I do believe that Eichel and/or Taylor Hall should also get more time on the penalty kill. 
 

Risto is better suited to be a second pair defenseman 
 

If you want something truly mind blowing how about the fact that two Sabres GM’s turn down two offers for Risto, the First being one for one for Taylor Hall and the Second was refusing to add a 2nd or 3rd Round Pick to Risto and Asplund for Ehlers and Appleton. 
 

If this season goes as expected between Hall and Eichel, That first non trade will be even more painful

 

Edited by Brawndo
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11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Three out of those four are no longer employed as head coaches and the fourth has a losing record. 

1 is a SC winning head coach... 1 is a HOF blue liner..... 1 is the current HC of the team. Somehow I think they know more about players than anyone on this site


Risto did not lead the Sabres Defenseman in TOI Until his third season which was 2015 2016. 
Yes I stand corrected, that should have read his 2nd full season in the NHL, I wasn't sure his first season (played 34 games dropped him from rookie status)

Eichel did not lead all forwards in ice time until His Fourth Season, and even then averaged 40 seconds less per game TOI than Rookie Rasmus Dahlin. His Fifth Season he was finally second on the Team in TOI. 
The point was when he was the best player he lead the team in TOI same as Risto lead all blue liners in TOI

Dahlin Entering his Third season Should start to see an increase in ice time to be the Sabres leader at the defensive position. With his pack moving skills he should see more time on the penalty kill and as a sidenote I do believe that Eichel and/or Taylor Hall should also get more time on the penalty kill. 
I believe that to be true hopefully also but as of right now Risto has received more TOI than he has

Risto is better suited to be a second pair defenseman 
That may also be true but if TOI is the equalizer as to where they play, he's a 1st liner until proven otherwise and if Zach freaking Bogosian can play 1st liner along with Hedman on TBL's Stanley Cup Playoff run, I think Risto can play 1st liner with Dahlin (if he's ready) if the chemistry is right

If you want something truly mind blowing how about the fact that two Sabres GM’s turn down two offers for Risto, the First being one for one for Taylor Hall and the Second was refusing to add a 2nd or 3rd Round Pick to Risto and Asplund for Ehlers and Appleton. 
Those are rumors that no-one on the Sabres front office ever substantiated. Hall seems like a no brainer but at the time he was our only decent blue liner so if this is really true, boo for whoever the GM was and don't forget not only is Risto our most physical DMan but he eats minutes and isn't on the injured list for a 1/4 or the season

If this season goes as expected between Hall and Eichel, That first non trade will be even more painful

If the season goes as expected, we may not sniff the playoffs again this year with the projected division we're in no matter how improved we may be. And don't forget Hall may be greater than ROR but not enough of a distance to have put us over getting the #1 pick in the draft that year.

And no @Thorny I'm not mad at you but you were a part of the Risto on the 3rd pairing narrative (😃😃) that still doesn't make any sense to me if all things remain the same. Your opinion isn't any worse than mine. 🥃🥃

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2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He's a 3/4 defender. Which is fine. 

I think you got him accurately assessed. I consider him a second pairing defenseman who I put at three. What he adds to the unit that Krueger values is some physicality. If he was a more cerebral a player he would have the tools to be a first pairing. But he doesn't. Like you I am fine with that. 

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I'm not too concerned with Risto's ice time moving forward, it will go down naturally as Dahlin starts to take the reigns as our top defenseman.

This was our defense's 5v5 ice time per game last season.  I could easily see both Risto and Dahlin hovering in the 16-16.5 min range this year, with Dahlin having more total TOI from being on PP1. 

Of course all that goes out the window if they make Risto and Dahlin a pairing.  But I really haven't gotten the impression that Krueger wants to do that.

Screenshot_20201213-121435_Chrome.thumb.jpg.c60aa93696baccfa3132cb5e0909e8b9.jpg

Edited by Shootica
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7 hours ago, jsb said:

And no @Thorny I'm not mad at you but you were a part of the Risto on the 3rd pairing narrative (😃😃) that still doesn't make any sense to me if all things remain the same. Your opinion isn't any worse than mine. 🥃🥃

1 is a SC winning head coach... Not with the Buffalo Sabres and ask Most Penguin Fans who feel there should have been a few more Cups under Blysma with that level of talent on his roster. 

1 is a HOF blue liner..... Really did not help him as the Sabres HC Did it?  His Team was practically ready to mutiny by the end of His Tenure. 

1 is the current HC of the team.. Who currently has a winning percentage of .434 as the HC of The Sabres 

 

Somehow I think they know more about players than anyone on this site...Absolutely, however that does not mean they are Good Coaches though. Proper deployment, usage of players and use of all information available is what separates the Good from The Bad.  
 

I do have hope for Krueger though. He reduced Risto’s TOI by almost a two minutes and the new additions at forward should help. His team will run through a wall for him and He is also the primary reason Hall is here. But continuing to play the Risto-Montour Pairing the most minutes, particularly with Montour on His Offside is going to set this team back. 
 

 

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Lysowski with a good piece on Montour this morning.

He's spent a lot of time in the offseason doing drills preparing to play on his off-hand side: defensive angles, breakout passes, point play

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/brandon-montour-on-returning-to-sabres-they-brought-me-in-for-a-reason/article_b9c28324-3965-11eb-83dc-8b203e5f1cce.html\

"They’re assessing me still and I just want to play the best I can to trust them and have the belief that they want me here. Everything else, hopefully will work itself out."

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13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Lysowski with a good piece on Montour this morning.

He's spent a lot of time in the offseason doing drills preparing to play on his off-hand side: defensive angles, breakout passes, point play

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/brandon-montour-on-returning-to-sabres-they-brought-me-in-for-a-reason/article_b9c28324-3965-11eb-83dc-8b203e5f1cce.html\

"They’re assessing me still and I just want to play the best I can to trust them and have the belief that they want me here. Everything else, hopefully will work itself out."

This just makes our handedness issue so glaring.  It would be so beneficial to have a middle pairing lefty so this isn't Montour's main focus coming into the year.

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23 minutes ago, Shootica said:

This just makes our handedness issue so glaring.  It would be so beneficial to have a middle pairing lefty so this isn't Montour's main focus coming into the year.

Story talks about how his shot quality metrics and ice time were significantly better in the second half of the season than the first.

He's only played 72 games over the past two years, was coming back from two injuries and he missed training camp learning a new system and a new position.

Hopefully he's in a better position to succeed this year.

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On 12/15/2020 at 8:56 AM, Shootica said:

This just makes our handedness issue so glaring.  It would be so beneficial to have a middle pairing lefty so this isn't Montour's main focus coming into the year.

Yup. It would be nice if he could just be focusing on the regular stuff in a year we presumably need him to step up. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

It looks from the scrimmage that the D pairs are set

Dahlin Montour

Mccabe Ristolainen

Miller Jokiharju

I love these pairs.  I’m thrilled Montour is back on the right side.  That 1st pair is highly skilled and highly mobile.  They could be really dynamic. I’m also glad that Miller is the player moved to the left side.  I also think McCabe brings out the best in Risto and covers for some of his defensive lapses.  This group could end up being the strength of this club as Dahlin and Joker mature.

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31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

McCabe Risto is the first pair until we see otherwise. 

True.  But really expect them to be 1A & Dahlin-Montour to be 1B.  And feel strongly that Miller or Montour should be on the 2PP to cut back some on Ristolainen's usage.

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The D pairings are set.

I think there will be more balance to their minutes than traditionally. Miller and Joki arguably are the best pairing some nights. Montour is best on the right, it was his off hand he struggled with— not every defense can just switch and righties are rarely asked to do so. 
 

I look forward to when the game is on the line and Dahlin-Joki are out there to maximize offense. 

Edited by triumph_communes
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21 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

The D pairings are set.

I think there will be more balance to their minutes than traditionally. Miller and Joki arguably are the best pairing some nights. Montour is best on the right, it was his off hand he struggled with— not every defense can just switch and righties are rarely asked to do so. 
 

I look forward to when the game is on the line and Dahlin-Joki are out there to maximize offense. 

If the bolded is true, either Miller is having a career year or, more likely IMHO, the Sabres are in trouble.  

Also, really don't see Jokihaju growing into the "we desperately need offense" offensive pairing RHD.  Would put all other 3 RHD ahead of him at present.  

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12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If the bolded is true, either Miller is having a career year or, more likely IMHO, the Sabres are in trouble.  

Also, really don't see Jokihaju growing into the "we desperately need offense" offensive pairing RHD.  Would put all other 3 RHD ahead of him at present.  

I have them all below 😂

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2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I have them all below 😂

You have Jokiharju as a better offensive player than any of Risto, Montour, and Miller?

I think Montour is best at getting the puck into offensive zone and Risto is the best actually playing in the offensive zone.

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11 minutes ago, Curt said:

You have Jokiharju as a better offensive player than any of Risto, Montour, and Miller?

I think Montour is best at getting the puck into offensive zone and Risto is the best actually playing in the offensive zone.

I was meaning all around, mind you I was def not a joki apologist last year. I do see him ironing out the flaws, though. 

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51 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I was meaning all around, mind you I was def not a joki apologist last year. I do see him ironing out the flaws, though. 

And the quote you replied to was in reply to stating that Dahlin & Jokiharju should be out together when pressing for offense.  That IMHO is in no way Joki's game.

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37 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And the quote you replied to was in reply to stating that Dahlin & Jokiharju should be out together when pressing for offense.  That IMHO is in no way Joki's game.

My mistake indeed, Jacobim. 

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23 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Guess I’m higher on Joki than most then. He’s not the most physical in our own zone but I think he and Dahlin are our best at fast break outs that turn into offense (as opposed to slow predictable break outs that go nowhere)

Don't know about you being higher on him than most here.  Several are quite high on him.  My expectation is that you & they're right about his ceiling; but that you're overly optimistic about him reaching it.  IMHO, he's currently a 4/5 and he'll likely end up a 3/4.

He's a solid D-man that can skate well and play at both ends & in transition but doesn't really stand out at any one thing.  He reminds of Kalinen in that regard.

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