WildCard Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, That Aud Smell said: Wait a second. Precisely how many regulars here believe - truly believe - that there's a standing conspiracy to fix/script NFL games? Show of hands. The refs made some blunders in the Texans game, sure. But if that Texans DB doesn't drop two sure-fire INTs (one of which should have been a pick-6), the principal reason for the Bills' loss would have been made even more clear than it otherwise was. OTOH, I did listen with interest when that disgraced NBA ref (Tim Donaghy (sp??)) talked about how the NBA would actively work to have finals games refereed in a way that would extend a series to a more profitable conclusion. Oh I do. The NFL definitely favors certain teams and does what they can to advance them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, WildCard said: Oh I do. The NFL definitely favors certain teams and does what they can to advance them Okay - that's three posters, by my count. Who are the teams that are league-favoured? Is NE favoured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: Okay - that's three posters, by my count. Who are the teams that are league-favoured? Is NE favoured? Any team/player that gets good ratings. We had a ton of phantom calls against the Cowboys, Aaron Rogers gets sooooooo many calls it's ridiculous, you think the NFL wants to showaces Allen vs Mahomes or Watson vs Mahomes while they blow JJ Watt all game? Giants - Cowboys - Steelers get a million prime time games a season. The Rams, moving into a brand new home and a fan base that hasn't really grown yet, reap the benefits of the worst non-call PI EVER and boom they're in the Super Bowl and all over the news. I guess my best example would really be the Packers. Seriously watch an Aaron Rogers game where they're down late and they need points, phantom calls start happening everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Like @tom webster, I reflexively discount such thoughts and talk because the skill, resources, and energy that it would take to keep such ... conspiracies quiet and preserved from public knowledge are positively unfathomable. Then add into the mix the many billions of dollars that are spent and made in wagering on NFL outcomes. The mind boggles. The truth will out. It always does. If the NFL were pressing down on the scale, etc., we would know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 The NBA did the same thing. It's not hard at all for the NFL to say 'hey, if you get into this situation with this team, maybe don't call it'. The NBA did that exact thing with their refs. Ask the Sacramento Kings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, WildCard said: Any team/player that gets good ratings. We had a ton of phantom calls against the Cowboys, Aaron Rogers gets sooooooo many calls it's ridiculous, you think the NFL wants to showaces Allen vs Mahomes or Watson vs Mahomes while they blow JJ Watt all game? Giants - Cowboys - Steelers get a million prime time games a season. The Rams, moving into a brand new home and a fan base that hasn't really grown yet, reap the benefits of the worst non-call PI EVER and boom they're in the Super Bowl and all over the news. I guess my best example would really be the Packers. Seriously watch an Aaron Rogers game where they're down late and they need points, phantom calls start happening everywhere. Then how did the Pats lose (at home!) to Tennessee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, nfreeman said: Then how did the Pats lose (at home!) to Tennessee? Which team was there more money on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Then how did the Pats lose (at home!) to Tennessee? I didn't say leagues rig it entirely, but if there is an opportunity to make or not make a call then they'll take it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) To add to Smell's take, the number of officials that would have to be solicited to participate in these conspiracies would be large. Are you telling me not one had the integrity to quit and tell the world about it? Edited January 7, 2020 by PASabreFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, SwampD said: Which team was there more money on? What? So now the NFL is taking orders from the sports books? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, nfreeman said: What? So now the NFL is taking orders from the sports books? Yes. The entire NFL. Every single employee down to the lowly office manager is taking orders from the sports books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 30 minutes ago, WildCard said: I didn't say leagues rig it entirely, but if there is an opportunity to make or not make a call then they'll take it I suppose this could be happening in isolated pockets - a la the NBA and the Tim Donaghys of the world. The refs are not asked to decide a game, but, if the chance(s) arise, they're asked to push the needle one way or another. 21 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: To add to Smell's take, the number of officials that would have to be solicited to participate in these conspiracies would be large. Are you telling me not one had the integrity to quit and tell the world about it? I mean -- exactly. It starts tripping into the realm of the purported conspiracy regarding the "faked moon landing." 10 minutes ago, SwampD said: Yes. The entire NFL. Every single employee down to the lowly office manager is taking orders from the sports books. Like I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, That Aud Smell said: I suppose this could be happening in isolated pockets - a la the NBA and the Tim Donaghys of the world. The refs are not asked to decide a game, but, if the chance(s) arise, they're asked to push the needle one way or another. I mean -- exactly. It starts tripping into the realm of the purported conspiracy regarding the "faked moon landing." Like I said. I hope you know that was sarcasm. I think it takes very little and very few people to "nudge" the results of a game, just like WC said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 33 minutes ago, SwampD said: I hope you know that was sarcasm. I think it takes very little and very few people to "nudge" the results of a game, just like WC said. Well, I do now. I think this is a possibility. But absent something more pervasive, I don't think such activity affects as much as people might think. OTOH, the failure to blow that one play dead on Houston (for delay of game) is the sort of thing that is easily susceptible to a theory that the responsible ref intentionally let just another 3/4 of a second elapse before deciding, yeah, I gotta blow my whistle. Same with the blindside block, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Earl Campbell: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/super/2017/01/31/earl-campbell-super-bowl-li-51-houston-oilers-texas-running-back-pain-gain-pro-football-hall-of-fame/97258738/ In fact, Campbell compared current play in the NFL to professional wrestling. “And we all know now that we’re grown men that wrestling’s fake,” Campbell told USA TODAY Sports. “Well, football is not played like it was when I played. Joe Thomas: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13494837/joe-thomas-cleveland-browns-backs-tom-brady-rips-nfl-witch-hunts "I'm glad that he's fighting [it]," Thomas said. "Because it's good for the game. It's an entertainment business. It's turning into the WWE really. It's like the Vince McMahon stuff. Basically Goodell is like Vince McMahon." Chris Borland: https://abc7news.com/sports/why-former-49er-chris-borland-is-the-most-dangerous-man-in-football/949515/ "It's like a spectacle of violence, for entertainment, and you're the actors in it. You're complicit in that: You put on the uniform. And it's a trivial thing at its core. It's make-believe, really. That's the truth about it." Now, am I saying it's definitely scripted? No. But is it beyond the realm of possibility? Also no. Would that explain all the strange calls that happen EVERY Sunday? Yes. So would incompetence, I suppose. Edited January 7, 2020 by Eleven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: Then how did the Pats lose (at home!) to Tennessee? Even Hulk Hogan lost once in a while. Gotta keep eyeballs on screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Eleven said: Now, am I saying it's definitely scripted? No. But is it beyond the realm of possibility? Also no. Would that explain all the strange calls that happen EVERY Sunday? Yes. So would incompetence, I suppose. I can see why people would think there's some efforts to orchestrate certain outcomes -- even if those efforts are a bit haphazard, ad hoc and sometimes fail. I dunno. I keep coming back to the fact that there would need to be a significant number of people in on a scheme to make the NFL a "work," as they say in the pro wrestling business. Good luck with keeping that sort of thing under wraps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Also, I think that quote from Borland is taken a bit out of context. I believe he was making more of a metaphysical point about how the incredible violence of the sport is ... for nothing, to no real end. Not that the games are scripted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said: Also, I think that quote from Borland is taken a bit out of context. I believe he was making more of a metaphysical point about how the incredible violence of the sport is ... for nothing, to no real end. Not that the games are scripted. A bit?! None of those quotes have anything to do with the result being scripted. It's a weird logical argument. The NFL is like professional wrestling in some ways, so it's like professional wrestling in all ways, including being scripted. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 ^ That’s a fair criticism. Thanks for bringing me back from the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 All of the debate aside... Should this officiating crew get another game in the playoffs? The blind side block was weak and probably not even a blind side block. Not calling the delay of game penalty is insane. The NFL should have a shot clock like the NBA. Let a loud buzzer go off and if the ball is still sitting on the ground, it's a penalty. If they get another game in the playoffs one has to question just how much scrutiny the NFL put on that crew for some seriously bad calls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LTS said: Should this officiating crew get another game in the playoffs? It shouldn't get another game in the regular season. If the NFL wants credibility, it needs to hold refs accountable, which it doesn't. 1 hour ago, LTS said: Not calling the delay of game penalty is insane. The NFL should have a shot clock like the NBA. Let a loud buzzer go off and if the ball is still sitting on the ground, it's a penalty. This would detract from the "human element" that is necessary for the NFL to do what it apparently wants to do, which is at LEAST remain controversial. Play clocks aren't even reviewable. We're talking about a league that still uses chains, moved by people who sometimes cheat with them, to measure ten yards. I'm familiar with Hanlon's Razor. I am now stating Eleven's Razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can adequately be explained by avarice. Edited January 8, 2020 by Eleven 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, Eleven said: I'm familiar with Hanlon's Razor. I am now stating Eleven's Razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can adequately be explained by avarice. Well alrighty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 hours ago, LTS said: All of the debate aside... Should this officiating crew get another game in the playoffs? The blind side block was weak and probably not even a blind side block. Not calling the delay of game penalty is insane. The NFL should have a shot clock like the NBA. Let a loud buzzer go off and if the ball is still sitting on the ground, it's a penalty. If they get another game in the playoffs one has to question just how much scrutiny the NFL put on that crew for some seriously bad calls. What part of the penalty definition do you have a beef with? “...if a player initiates a block when he is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and makes contact to his opponent with his helmet, forearm or shoulder.” 1 hour ago, Eleven said: It shouldn't get another game in the regular season. If the NFL wants credibility, it needs to hold refs accountable, which it doesn't. This would detract from the "human element" that is necessary for the NFL to do what it apparently wants to do, which is at LEAST remain controversial. Play clocks aren't even reviewable. We're talking about a league that still uses chains, moved by people who sometimes cheat with them, to measure ten yards. I'm familiar with Hanlon's Razor. I am now stating Eleven's Razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can adequately be explained by avarice. What was the league's economic interest in making sure Buffalo did not advance/Houston did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: What part of the penalty definition do you have a beef with? “...if a player initiates a block when he is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and makes contact to his opponent with his helmet, forearm or shoulder.” What was the league's economic interest in making sure Buffalo did not advance/Houston did? Every part. It was not a penalty. 7 vs 52. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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