Drunkard Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) im going to be honest. i cant believe that nobody else was traded. when they said at the start of the season everyone not named jack was on the block. was jbott asking too much or is the roster that horrible that no other team wanted anyone from the team. i know 95% of my posts here are jokes about lehner, but this is an honest question. It's definitely both. GMJB set his prices way too high and it likely lowered the number of teams who even bothered to kick the tires on some of our guys which weakened the market on our players. The fact that the team has been poor all season further suppressed value. I'm sure we could have gotten a much better prospect for Kane than Dan O'Regan if not for the 4 pieces including a first nonsense. He insisted on getting 4 quarters for his gold dollar though and ended up settling for 3 dimes in the 11th hour when he may have been able to get a half-dollar or two quarters if he hadn't been so firm in his demands. Edited February 27, 2018 by Alkoholist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 It's definitely both. GMJB set his prices way too high and it likely lowered the number of teams who even bothered to kick the tires on some of our guys which weakened the market on our players. The fact that the team has been poor all season further suppressed value. I'm sure we could have gotten a much better prospect for Kane than Dan O'Regan if not for the 4 pieces including a first nonsense. He insisted on getting 4 quarters for his gold dollar though and ended up settling for 3 dimes in the 11th hour when he may have been able to get a half-dollar or two quarters if he hadn't been so firm in his demands. This is SOP for all GM's. Kane, predictably, just wasn't that valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'm still confused about how we definitely know the intricate details of all of Botterill's proposals and conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 I'm still confused about how we definitely know the intricate details of all of Botterill's proposals and conversations. Right. Every critic here appears to have been in the office with Botterill. You'd think we'd have known about the trade sooner with all these insiderrrrrrrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) This is SOP for all GM's. Kane, predictably, just wasn't that valuable. He was probably worth a more valuable prospect than Dan O'Regan. Setting too high of a price and holding firm to it most likely limited the number of interested parties. I'm still confused about how we definitely know the intricate details of all of Botterill's proposals and conversations. It's speculation based on known/available information. Every report stated that GMJB was holding firm on his 4 pieces including a first price tag and those same reports said that none of the other GM's were biting at that price (and the facts have born that out by the fact that Kane didn't fetch the required return). If you were running some playoff bubble team and you had your sights set on adding a guy like Evander Kane but the price is 4 pieces including a first, you're more likely to either stand pat with your roster or look elsewhere for upgrades that can be had for cheaper. Maybe a team is willing to give up a near ready prospect but no 1st rounder. Maybe another team is willing to give up a first but no prospects. Sticking so firmly to his guns was stupid. Right. Every critic here appears to have been in the office with Botterill. You'd think we'd have known about the trade sooner with all these insiderrrrrrrs. Whatever. I've never claimed insider sources or any of that nonsense. You don't have to have any special insight to see that JB overplayed his hand. Edited February 27, 2018 by Alkoholist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 He was probably worth a more valuable prospect than Dan O'Regan. Setting too high of a price and holding firm to it most likely limited the number of interested parties. It's speculation based on known/available information. Every report stated that GMJB was holding firm on his 4 pieces including a first price tag and those same reports said that none of the other GM's were biting at that price (and the facts have born that out by the fact that Kane didn't fetch the required return). If you were running some playoff bubble team and you had your sights set on adding a guy like Evander Kane but the price is 4 pieces including a first, you're more likely to either stand pat with your roster or look elsewhere for upgrades that can be had for cheaper. Maybe a team is willing to give up a near ready prospect but no 1st rounder. Maybe another team is willing to give up a first but no prospects. Sticking so firmly to his guns was stupid. I doubt it. Just because there's an established ask doesn't mean GM's simply don't make offers. If that is the case, then those GM's are idiots and some from Craigslist would do a better job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Kane's value is in line with what I saw from him on the ice. Botterill didn't turn down better offers. Botterill's price wasn't too scary for the poor wittol GMs to not ask to give up less. This board has driven me nuts the last 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Kane's value is in line with what I saw from him on the ice. Botterill didn't turn down better offers. Botterill's price wasn't too scary for the poor wittol GMs to not ask to give up less. This board has driven me nuts the last 24 hours. Mhm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 im going to be honest. i cant believe that nobody else was traded. when they said at the start of the season everyone not named jack was on the block. was jbott asking too much or is the roster that horrible that no other team wanted anyone from the team. i know 95% of my posts here are jokes about lehner, but this is an honest question. I think it was the bolded. The Sabres are a terrible team. What playoff team was going to look at their lesser players (which their UFAs undoubtedly were other than Kane) and say "I want that guy"? I posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant here: Travis Yost of TSN was on with Schopp on Friday and said there was no interest around the NHL in Lehner. Lehner stinks, but he is a starting goalie. If no one wanted him, it's pretty GD likely that there was also no demand for Gorges, Pouliot or the rest of the dreck. It's definitely both. GMJB set his prices way too high and it likely lowered the number of teams who even bothered to kick the tires on some of our guys which weakened the market on our players. The fact that the team has been poor all season further suppressed value. I'm sure we could have gotten a much better prospect for Kane than Dan O'Regan if not for the 4 pieces including a first nonsense. He insisted on getting 4 quarters for his gold dollar though and ended up settling for 3 dimes in the 11th hour when he may have been able to get a half-dollar or two quarters if he hadn't been so firm in his demands. You have absolutely no way of knowing any of this -- and the available evidence -- i.e. what actually happened -- squarely contradicts your position. Even if JBott's initial asking price was higher -- that is just negotiating tactics. Obviously the price dropped and ended up where it was. No NHL GM is going to say "How dare he ask for that much last month. Just for that, I'm not going to trade for Kane now even though the price is lower." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 After sleeping on my initial disappointment over the return I've actually come around. This young guy has an opportunity to grow with this team and hopefully JBot and his management group/scouting staff did their homework. Kane is gone. We might have lost him for nothing. Moving on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 I’m a little surprised that Poulliot seemed to garner no interest. I thought for sure that he has the size, speed, and production to be valuable as a support player for a long run. Maybe he just looks halfway decent hete because we have so few players to feature that his play here decieved us (me, anyway). Other than Kane and Poulliot, I didn’t expect we’d be able to move anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 I’m a little surprised that Poulliot seemed to garner no interest. I thought for sure that he has the size, speed, and production to be valuable as a support player for a long run. Maybe he just looks halfway decent hete because we have so few players to feature that his play here decieved us (me, anyway). Other than Kane and Poulliot, I didn’t expect we’d be able to move anyone. I was surprised by Pouliot not moving too, but if Edmonton put him on waivers and there were other JAGS available on waivers yesterday then I guess he didn't really have that much value comparatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 If Kane's value is this low now, imagine how low it was when the Sabres traded for him? Murray held all the cards at that time and somehow still lost the hand, pretty hard to do. That being said, O'Regan is probably a bit better of a prospect that what he is getting credit for. Sure he isn't Jordan Kyrou or any other big name that I was dreaming about but he was one of the Sharks top prospects and maybe can turn himself into a bottom 6 winger for the Sabres? He certainly helps Rochester in the short-term. I also like the Sharks chances of re-signing Kane but not getting a guaranteed 1st for him is very disappointing. I do wonder if JB was more aggressive in trying to trade him prior to Christmas, would he have found someone willing to give up a 1st? hindsight is 20/20 but playing him with Larsson for anytime certainly didn't help his trade value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 I’m a little surprised that Poulliot seemed to garner no interest. I thought for sure that he has the size, speed, and production to be valuable as a support player for a long run. Maybe he just looks halfway decent hete because we have so few players to feature that his play here decieved us (me, anyway). Other than Kane and Poulliot, I didn’t expect we’d be able to move anyone. When Pouliot played against the Bruins, figured it was a foregone conclusion he'd be a Sabre today. Thought Gorges might have gotten moved but Oduya & Alt getting put on waivers seemed to take any maket for him from slim to non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 When Pouliot played against the Bruins, figured it was a foregone conclusion he'd be a Sabre today. Thought Gorges might have gotten moved but Oduya & Alt getting put on waivers seemed to take any maket for him from slim to non-existent. Gorges has been scratched too often to be worthy of a trade. Betting he'll be overseas next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 There wasn’t a lot of Gorges/Pouliot types moved yesterday - I’m talking veteran roster filler/playoff insurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Gorges has been scratched too often to be worthy of a trade. Betting he'll be overseas next year. I'd expect he'll hang 'em up. There wasn’t a lot of Gorges/Pouliot types moved yesterday - I’m talking veteran roster filler/playoff insurance True. Probably due to only ~6 teams being locks on making the playoffs. Why give up a prospect to make sure you're fully stocked w/ NHLers if you lose a guy to injury in the playoffs when you don't even know if you'll get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 If Kane's value is this low now, imagine how low it was when the Sabres traded for him? Murray held all the cards at that time and somehow still lost the hand, pretty hard to do. That being said, O'Regan is probably a bit better of a prospect that what he is getting credit for. Sure he isn't Jordan Kyrou or any other big name that I was dreaming about but he was one of the Sharks top prospects and maybe can turn himself into a bottom 6 winger for the Sabres? He certainly helps Rochester in the short-term. I also like the Sharks chances of re-signing Kane but not getting a guaranteed 1st for him is very disappointing. I do wonder if JB was more aggressive in trying to trade him prior to Christmas, would he have found someone willing to give up a 1st? hindsight is 20/20 but playing him with Larsson for anytime certainly didn't help his trade value. Are you theorizing that his value was lower in 2015? It was certainly higher, substantially. All one has to do is look and see that Hartman fetched a better return this deadline than Kane. Term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 I'm thinking I wouldn't want to be Botterill. I mean what can he do? Who else on this team is going to get good value in return so how does he ditch them and still put a team on the ice? Lehner was shopped around it seems and nobody wanted him. Give him away? Ok, we go with Ullmark. But for the rest of the team what? You ditch Scandella the first decent piece we've added to the D in years? Is he supposed to just bring all of Rochester up and somehow that'll make us better? Bailey? Baptiste? Fasching? etc? 3rd liners at best. If that. FAs? Who is going to come to Buffalo with this boat sinking unless you overpay them like Murray did Okposo and then your cap is shot for mediocrity at best. In order to do this right, this seems like it has to be more of a 5 year plan than anything less. The draft is the only answer, and that is going to take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) I'm thinking I wouldn't want to be Botterill. I mean what can he do? Who else on this team is going to get good value in return so how does he ditch them and still put a team on the ice? Lehner was shopped around it seems and nobody wanted him. Give him away? Ok, we go with Ullmark. But for the rest of the team what? You ditch Scandella the first decent piece we've added to the D in years? Is he supposed to just bring all of Rochester up and somehow that'll make us better? Bailey? Baptiste? Fasching? etc? 3rd liners at best. If that. FAs? Who is going to come to Buffalo with this boat sinking unless you overpay them like Murray did Okposo and then your cap is shot for mediocrity at best. In order to do this right, this seems like it has to be more of a 5 year plan than anything less. The draft is the only answer, and that is going to take time. It is also fraught with peril. The odds of a draft pick making much of a contribution drop considerably once you get outside the 1st half of the 1st round. JB will need to earn his money there. And outproduce the averages. Edited February 28, 2018 by We've Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Are you theorizing that his value was lower in 2015? It was certainly higher, substantially. All one has to do is look and see that Hartman fetched a better return this deadline than Kane. Term. No sorry, I'm theorizing that Murray substantially over paid in 2015 consider he was injured and coming off "track suit" gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) Spotrac has Nelson listed as a RFA. With Reinhart, thought any offer extended is termed a qualifying offer.He is a class VI ufa sporttrac is wrong. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/casey-nelson Edited February 28, 2018 by 3putt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 I'm sure the Sabres have a great shot at resigning him. How many other teams can pretty well guarantee a NHL roster spot next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 I'm sure the Sabres have a great shot at resigning him. How many other teams can pretty well guarantee a NHL roster spot next year? Depends on what he wants. But generally I agree. The point is he is a UFA and can’t be tendered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Depends on what he wants. But generally I agree. The point is he is a UFA and can’t be tendered. True. But he can be signed anytime prior to July 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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