GDT: Dallas Stars @ Buffalo Sabres, 1/20/2018, 1pm ET, MSG

[eman]

We have different memories

Not on the breakaway, he could dangle and I witnessed that myself several times in his short Sabres stay. Overall when you saw the talent he had, you wanted more from him I give you that. 

This team could use a shooter like Miro -- he led the Sabres every year in scoring during the deepest heart of the dead-puck era and arguably never had a #1 center on the same roster. Miro would be awesome on Jack's wing. And of course, it's great for Gerbe or Eichel fight and claw for the empty-netter, but not Satan?

 

All nostalgia aside, this team doesn't show the drive or tenacity required on offense or defense, their passing is horrible and slow, and they've got spotty goaltending to boot. It's definitely the least fun roster to watch in years. To cap it all off, they're not even an interesting infighting train wreck. The blade is dulled.

 

Most accurate response. I do not see the return others figure we will get for trading O'Reilly, Okposo (if he's done here) or any other Sabre outside of Kane. That goes for Reinhart as well. Other posts have shown that Rochester actually has a somewhat veteran AHL lineup and that the production down there hasn't really been from the youth corps. I haven't bothered to check any of this myself but I do believe we are in for several more years of this.

 

As for hired mercenaries coming to Buffalo, I'll believe that when I see it also. Seriously, why would you want to come to this club?

[eman]

You know O’Reilly is scoring at the same pace this year as he’s always scored, right?

Same with Okposo if you take away the first month or two where he struggled to come back from the ICU?

 

Let me ask you this then. Everyone is throwing out these stats on ROR & Okposo scoring pretty much at his regular pace now. Many posters here claim Jack is playing some of his best hockey as a Sabre. No one wants Reinhart to go as he is showing signs of coming around (I'm not saying this, others are) If all this is true, then why is this club dead last or damn close to it in goals scored? Why is our PP 25th? in the league? Where is our offence if all this is to be believed? This club is getting owned on a fairly regular basis so I am really not seeing what others are. 

 

Offense is, and remains a major issue with this club. If it wasn't for Kane, it would be way worse.

 

So again, if our main 5 guys (Eichel, O'Reilly,Kane, Okposo and Reinhart) are scoring at somewhat of their usual pace, why are we where we are again?

[inkman]

Let me ask you this then. Everyone is throwing out these stats on ROR & Okposo scoring pretty much at his regular pace now. Many posters here claim Jack is playing some of his best hockey as a Sabre. No one wants Reinhart to go as he is showing signs of coming around (I'm not saying this, others are) If all this is true, then why is this club dead last or damn close to it in goals scored? Why is our PP 25th? in the league? Where is our offence if all this is to be believed? This club is getting owned on a fairly regular basis so I am really not seeing what others are.

 

Offense is, and remains a major issue with this club. If it wasn't for Kane, it would be way worse.

 

So again, if our main 5 guys (Eichel, O'Reilly,Kane, Okposo and Reinhart) are scoring at somewhat of their usual pace, why are we where we are again?

I'm pretty sure everyone wants Reinhart to go. And he's not scoring at his two previous seasons pace. No offense from any defenseman at all. No one else on the roster scoring even a little.

[erickompositör72]

Let me ask you this then. Everyone is throwing out these stats on ROR & Okposo scoring pretty much at his regular pace now. Many posters here claim Jack is playing some of his best hockey as a Sabre. No one wants Reinhart to go as he is showing signs of coming around (I'm not saying this, others are) If all this is true, then why is this club dead last or damn close to it in goals scored? Why is our PP 25th? in the league? Where is our offence if all this is to be believed? This club is getting owned on a fairly regular basis so I am really not seeing what others are. 

 

Offense is, and remains a major issue with this club. If it wasn't for Kane, it would be way worse.

 

So again, if our main 5 guys (Eichel, O'Reilly,Kane, Okposo and Reinhart) are scoring at somewhat of their usual pace, why are we where we are again?

 

I think Lehner has cost us as many as 8 games this season. 16 points.

 

That doesn't explain every problem. But, just for shits, how would we evaluate things if we were currently at 47pts, 6pts out of the last wildcard?

Edited January 21, 2018 by erickompositör72

[LTS]

Do you even watch the games? Here is the biggest glaring error: They put no one in front of the opposing goaltender. In the odd instance that Reinhart goes there, he is weak and on his ass. Their shot taking is from the perimeter which is why opposing goaltenders all look like Vezina trophy winners against us and why the backups look outstanding (and the opposition play their back ups against us a lot!) We are near the bottom or at the bottom in goals scored. Yes it is on Phil and I believe coaching makes a huge difference. 

 

Remember how these boards loved Ryan O' Reilly, Kyle Okposo? Now these guys all of a sudden can't score. I bet you they will score once they're moved as can Kane. Then the posts will state: Why didn't they do that in a Sabres uni? Why? Because Phil is crap. You don't have to believe me now, I do believe we'll know the truth within 2 more seasons (both non-playoff seasons by the way. 10 years and counting. Organizational disgrace. 

 

Yes, imagine that.  I actually watch the games.

• Bodies in front of the net.  This actually has been happening when possible.  The biggest problem the power play had initially was that it could not get established in the zone.  Until it is established no one is going to the front of the net.  They work the boards trying to get the top 3 set up so the other 2 float into the high slot and in front of the net.  Even if they managed to get established they were sloppy and slow with puck movement which left little to no chance of a shot occurring.  Lately they've actually been better.   If you have evidence that Phil Housley is coaching the power play to not put a body in front then please present it.  Otherwise what I see is a bunch of the same players not playing clean hockey.
• Backup goaltenders - the Sabres have been seeing backup goaltenders for years, through 4 coaches now.  Hardly a point to bring up against Housley.  When you suck you see the backup, they've sucked for a long time.  
• This team has sucked at scoring for years.  Through 42 games this years team was outscoring last years team at even strength.  The power play was the glaring difference.  We discussed that.

Let me ask you this then. Everyone is throwing out these stats on ROR & Okposo scoring pretty much at his regular pace now. Many posters here claim Jack is playing some of his best hockey as a Sabre. No one wants Reinhart to go as he is showing signs of coming around (I'm not saying this, others are) If all this is true, then why is this club dead last or damn close to it in goals scored? Why is our PP 25th? in the league? Where is our offence if all this is to be believed? This club is getting owned on a fairly regular basis so I am really not seeing what others are. 

 

Offense is, and remains a major issue with this club. If it wasn't for Kane, it would be way worse.

 

So again, if our main 5 guys (Eichel, O'Reilly,Kane, Okposo and Reinhart) are scoring at somewhat of their usual pace, why are we where we are again?

 

This is actually pretty easy to address.  Eichel is finally playing a full ice game.  His scoring has stayed the same and he's been much more responsible defensively.

 

You point out 5 names and there are 18 skaters a night.  You want to know why this team is not winning?  A horrible power play, bad defense, and absolutely no secondary scoring.

 

Here is the points per game readout of the offense each year back to 14-15.

 

Eichel - .96  .93   .69

Kane -  .78  .61   .54    .59 (w/ Jets)

ROR -   .67  .76   .84   .67 (w/ Avs)

KO  -     .59  .69   .81   .85  (last two w/ Islanders)

Risto -   .49  .57   .50   .26

Reino -  .35  .59   .53

 

I'm not even going to bother looking at how the rest of the lineup scores because I know the answer.  They don't.

 

The top PPG players on the Sabres of the regular lineup are listed above.  Only Pominville is above Reinhart at .43.

 

Looking at the bottom 10 in goals for this season in the NHL and using the Sam Reinhart cut-off line of .35 PPG and players of minimum 20 games played.  Here is a comparison.

 

Sabres        - 103GF, 7 players .35 or better

Coyotes      - 113GF, 9 players .35 or better

Detroit        - 117GF, 9 players .35 or better 

Canadiens - 118GF,   11 players, .35 or better

Columbus  - 120GF, 13 players, .35 or better

Ottawa       - 120GF,  11 players, .35 or better

Vancouver - 121GF,  10 players .35 or better

Sharks       - 125GF,  10 players .35 or better

Hurricanes - 126GF, 11 players .35 or better

Anaheim    - 127GF, 12 players .35 or better

 

For reference, past Sabre teams who had players who played 40 games or more and scored .35 or better.

 

2016-17 - 8 players, (Eichel, O'Reilly, Okposo, Kane, Reinhart, Ristolainen, Gionta, Moulson) - Bylsma coached

2015-16 - 8 players, (O'Reilly, Eichel, Kane, Reinhart, Ristolainen, McGinn, Gionta, Bogosian) - Bylsma coached

2014-15 - 7 players (Ennis, Moulson, Gionta, Girgensons, Stafford, Stewart, Foligno) - Nolan coached

2013-14 - 6 players (Moulson, Hodgson, Ennis, Stafford, Ehrhoff, Myers) - Nolan coached

2012-13 - 6 players (Hodgson, Ennis, Ott, Ehrhoff, Stafford, Foligno) - Nolan coached

2011-12  - 11 players (Pominville, Vanek, Ennis, Stafford, Roy, Ehrhoff, Myers, Gerbe, Adam, Leino, Boyes) - did not make the playoffs  (Ruff/Rolston coached)

2010-11 - 12 players (Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, Connolly, Ennis, Leopold, Gerbe, Myers, Hecht, Sekera, Gaustad, Montador)  - made the playoffs (Ruff coached)

 

It's pretty clear the Sabres lack scoring depth.  The results are over 5 coaches, not just one.  The teams around them have more players.  Some do not have players that are as high as some of the Sabres in PPG, but the scoring is spread out.

 

As long as teams only have to shutdown 6-7 players on a team it will be much easier for them to beat the Sabres.  The team has no depth.  There were new faces added this year, none of them replaced the scoring from last year.  

[Taro T]

I think Rayzor's limited grasp of English limited the critique.  He said, as I recall, "Satan would knock his grandmother over for an empty-net goal."  That's not the issue, it's that he would clearly not knock his grandmother over in most other situations. 

 

Also, he mastered the flamingo.  Elevated it to an absolute art form.    But I digress.

Not until after Zhitnik nearly destroyed his ankle in the playoffs in '99.

[eman]

I think Lehner has cost us as many as 8 games this season. 16 points.

 

That doesn't explain every problem. But, just for shits, how would we evaluate things if we were currently at 47pts, 6pts out of the last wildcard?

 

I agree, he has coughed some up, but again, he has 9 of our victories (out of 11) and has kept us in several games that could have easily been blow outs. Not sure what happened with Chad, he was actually very good here the first time around and I was sorry to see him go. His second go around has been awful. That may have more to do with our D being basically non existent.

 

Why is our D non existent? Scandella was supposed to be a decent defender. Risto has totally regressed under Phil for some reason. I don't see any of our defenders taking the body with any regularity. Is that not on the coach? Bogo was not a bad defenseman when he left Winnipeg. McCabe showed promise until this season. Beaulieu and Gorges have basically not been very good at all. I can't help to think coaching has played a role in the set back this season. This club should not be this bad. 55 projected points bad????

[eman]

Yes, imagine that.  I actually watch the games.

• Bodies in front of the net.  This actually has been happening when possible.  The biggest problem the power play had initially was that it could not get established in the zone.  Until it is established no one is going to the front of the net.  They work the boards trying to get the top 3 set up so the other 2 float into the high slot and in front of the net.  Even if they managed to get established they were sloppy and slow with puck movement which left little to no chance of a shot occurring.  Lately they've actually been better.   If you have evidence that Phil Housley is coaching the power play to not put a body in front then please present it.  Otherwise what I see is a bunch of the same players not playing clean hockey.
• Backup goaltenders - the Sabres have been seeing backup goaltenders for years, through 4 coaches now.  Hardly a point to bring up against Housley.  When you suck you see the backup, they've sucked for a long time.  
• This team has sucked at scoring for years.  Through 42 games this years team was outscoring last years team at even strength.  The power play was the glaring difference.  We discussed that.

 

This is actually pretty easy to address.  Eichel is finally playing a full ice game.  His scoring has stayed the same and he's been much more responsible defensively.

 

You point out 5 names and there are 18 skaters a night.  You want to know why this team is not winning?  A horrible power play, bad defense, and absolutely no secondary scoring.

 

Here is the points per game readout of the offense each year back to 14-15.

 

Eichel - .96  .93   .69

Kane -  .78  .61   .54    .59 (w/ Jets)

ROR -   .67  .76   .84   .67 (w/ Avs)

KO  -     .59  .69   .81   .85  (last two w/ Islanders)

Risto -   .49  .57   .50   .26

Reino -  .35  .59   .53

 

I'm not even going to bother looking at how the rest of the lineup scores because I know the answer.  They don't.

 

The top PPG players on the Sabres of the regular lineup are listed above.  Only Pominville is above Reinhart at .43.

 

Looking at the bottom 10 in goals for this season in the NHL and using the Sam Reinhart cut-off line of .35 PPG and players of minimum 20 games played.  Here is a comparison.

 

Sabres        - 103GF, 7 players .35 or better

Coyotes      - 113GF, 9 players .35 or better

Detroit        - 117GF, 9 players .35 or better 

Canadiens - 118GF,   11 players, .35 or better

Columbus  - 120GF, 13 players, .35 or better

Ottawa       - 120GF,  11 players, .35 or better

Vancouver - 121GF,  10 players .35 or better

Sharks       - 125GF,  10 players .35 or better

Hurricanes - 126GF, 11 players .35 or better

Anaheim    - 127GF, 12 players .35 or better

 

For reference, past Sabre teams who had players who played 40 games or more and scored .35 or better.

 

2016-17 - 8 players, (Eichel, O'Reilly, Okposo, Kane, Reinhart, Ristolainen, Gionta, Moulson) - Bylsma coached

2015-16 - 8 players, (O'Reilly, Eichel, Kane, Reinhart, Ristolainen, McGinn, Gionta, Bogosian) - Bylsma coached

2014-15 - 7 players (Ennis, Moulson, Gionta, Girgensons, Stafford, Stewart, Foligno) - Nolan coached

2013-14 - 6 players (Moulson, Hodgson, Ennis, Stafford, Ehrhoff, Myers) - Nolan coached

2012-13 - 6 players (Hodgson, Ennis, Ott, Ehrhoff, Stafford, Foligno) - Nolan coached

2011-12  - 11 players (Pominville, Vanek, Ennis, Stafford, Roy, Ehrhoff, Myers, Gerbe, Adam, Leino, Boyes) - did not make the playoffs  (Ruff/Rolston coached)

2010-11 - 12 players (Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, Connolly, Ennis, Leopold, Gerbe, Myers, Hecht, Sekera, Gaustad, Montador)  - made the playoffs (Ruff coached)

 

It's pretty clear the Sabres lack scoring depth.  The results are over 5 coaches, not just one.  The teams around them have more players.  Some do not have players that are as high as some of the Sabres in PPG, but the scoring is spread out.

 

As long as teams only have to shutdown 6-7 players on a team it will be much easier for them to beat the Sabres.  The team has no depth.  There were new faces added this year, none of them replaced the scoring from last year.  

 

I get the lack of scoring for sure. It has haunted us for seasons now ever since Drury and Briere left. I do not understand why the power play has crapped out? Are we entering the offensive zone the way we used to under Bylsma? Is Phil's entrance approach different? We have the same 5 guys that did produce on the PP under Bylsma looking completely lost under Phil. Why now? Risto can be productive from the point as can Scandella i believe but we don't see it under Phil's so called system.

 

Doesn't it scare you in the least what has happened to Risto under Phil? At times he looks lost out there and he never used to. It is glaring this season the change in him. Our defense rarely takes the body and I believe the lack theerof hurts both out goaltenders (it certainly doesn't help them anyhow)

 

As for putting Sabre bodies in front of the opposing goal, I am not seeing it with regularity as other teams do it. This could be based on our puck possession stats as well. If you don't have the puck in the opposing zone for long, it's hard to get a body in front of the net. Several of the games i have watched though we were not doing it enough when we could have (and should have) Reinhart goes there some of the time but doesn't seem strong enough to maintain good position. Botoom line is, I don't believe any of us thought this club could be this bad this season. Time will soon tell us if it is Phil, or the players or perhaps both. I'm guessing a bit of both.

[erickompositör72]

I agree, he has coughed some up, but again, he has 9 of our victories (out of 11) and has kept us in several games that could have easily been blow outs. Not sure what happened with Chad, he was actually very good here the first time around and I was sorry to see him go. His second go around has been awful. That may have more to do with our D being basically non existent.

 

Not to beat a decomposing horse, but...

 

I don't buy that he's kept us in any games that a solid NHL starter would not have also kept us in. He flails around and makes saves look more spectacular than they are at times, because it's a wonder a slow-reflexed, 6'5", 240lbs guy can do it. Most starting goaltenders move much more efficiently than he does, making what might be an "impressive" save by Lehner look routine.

[miles]

Not to beat a decomposing horse, but...

 

 

those are the best horses to beat

[eman]

Not to beat a decomposing horse, but...

 

I don't buy that he's kept us in any games that a solid NHL starter would not have also kept us in. He flails around and makes saves look more spectacular than they are at times, because it's a wonder a slow-reflexed, 6'5", 240lbs guy can do it. Most starting goaltenders move much more efficiently than he does, making what might be an "impressive" save by Lehner look routine.

 

 I don' t expect Lehner back but I do hope they get the defensive issues somewhat sorted out before exposing Ullmark to what Chad and Robin see. Linus looked good in his start  but you don't want to ruin his confidence so early on. The D is a mess. Lehners save % was actually quite decent the previous 2 seasons. There has been a dropoff this year but the defense looks like it may have contributed to that.

[DarthEbriate]

Not until after Zhitnik nearly destroyed his ankle in the playoffs in '99.

Give us Grosek a healthy back and Miro a healthy ankle -- and sure, give Modano a healthy wrist. Maybe a few more goals get scored that series...and a few of them by us.

Le sigh.

[Sabel79]

Not until after Zhitnik nearly destroyed his ankle in the playoffs in '99.

  

Give us Grosek a healthy back and Miro a healthy ankle -- and sure, give Modano a healthy wrist. Maybe a few more goals get scored that series...and a few of them by us.

Le sigh.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Jsixspd]

According to the Buffalo News, Housley made this incredibly ignorant and oblivious comment near the beginning of the post game presser

"We come out and we're playing pretty good hockey," 

Really? The team was HORRIBLE out of the gate - they were uncoordinated, sloppy,  poor passing, unable to control the puck, turning the puck over.    And I only watched just under 4 minutes of the opening period before turning it off in disgust. 

Is he really this stupid, or is he just trying to bamboozle Pegula and Brandon with some double-talk to save his job?   The team was going nowhere with Disco Dan, but if anything this guy is a serious downgrade.   C'mon!!!  

Or is he 'evaluating' for a whole year, instead of delivering,  along with Botterill?  smh!!!! 

And the link...

http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/20/bucky-gleason-pretty-good-hockey-phil-youve-got-to-be-kidding/

[LGR4GM]

According to the Buffalo News, Housley made this incredibly ignorant and oblivious comment near the beginning of the post game presser

 

"We come out and we're playing pretty good hockey,"

 

Really? The team was HORRIBLE out of the gate - they were uncoordinated, sloppy, poor passing, unable to control the puck, turning the puck over. And I only watched just under 4 minutes of the opening period before turning it off in disgust.

 

Is he really this stupid, or is he just trying to bamboozle Pegula and Brandon with some double-talk to save his job? The team was going nowhere with Disco Dan, but if anything this guy is a serious downgrade. C'mon!!!

 

Or is he 'evaluating' for a whole year, instead of delivering, along with Botterill? smh!!!!

 

And the link...

 

http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/20/bucky-gleason-pretty-good-hockey-phil-youve-got-to-be-kidding/

Now this I agree with. They played like garbage coming out in that game. Phil implying otherwise raises serious questions Edited January 22, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[LTS]

I get the lack of scoring for sure. It has haunted us for seasons now ever since Drury and Briere left. I do not understand why the power play has crapped out? Are we entering the offensive zone the way we used to under Bylsma? Is Phil's entrance approach different? We have the same 5 guys that did produce on the PP under Bylsma looking completely lost under Phil. Why now? Risto can be productive from the point as can Scandella i believe but we don't see it under Phil's so called system.

 

Doesn't it scare you in the least what has happened to Risto under Phil? At times he looks lost out there and he never used to. It is glaring this season the change in him. Our defense rarely takes the body and I believe the lack theerof hurts both out goaltenders (it certainly doesn't help them anyhow)

 

As for putting Sabre bodies in front of the opposing goal, I am not seeing it with regularity as other teams do it. This could be based on our puck possession stats as well. If you don't have the puck in the opposing zone for long, it's hard to get a body in front of the net. Several of the games i have watched though we were not doing it enough when we could have (and should have) Reinhart goes there some of the time but doesn't seem strong enough to maintain good position. Botoom line is, I don't believe any of us thought this club could be this bad this season. Time will soon tell us if it is Phil, or the players or perhaps both. I'm guessing a bit of both.

 

I don't see much has changed with the power play except the speed with which the puck is being moved.  Lately the power play has started to look more like it did last year.  That said, last years PP efficiency was the 7th highest in the last 10 years of the NHL (not including this year).  The Caps hold 4 of the top 7 positions and only Pittsburgh and Detroit in 07-08 were better.  I think there is a lack of confidence and second guessing themselves that leads to split second indecisions and thus less time on the power play to get set up.

 

Phil's so called system is something that has to be learned over time.  It's not instantaneous.  Moreover, each guy has to get it.  If they don't then other players have to start compensating for what one or more guys are not doing on the ice.  This again comes down to talent.  I don't know that everyone on the team gets it and perhaps more importantly it might be that every player can't play the system.  As such, Housley may be doing the best that he can with this group of players.  Think about it, the key players stayed the same, the supporting cast underwent a few changes and not much has changed. 

 

I can't explain why the Sabres give up the blue line, they did it a lot last year as well.  It could be that teams are attacking with numbers and our forwards are backchecking more rather than being in defensive position.  The general rule of thumb is that you only go for contact when you have superior numbers.  Anything even you play contain and anything less you play zone.

 

I'll readily admit I expected the team to be better.  I'm ready to admit that I was probably a little optimistic in that expectation.  The idea was that Bylsma and Murray were the issue and it would be fixed quickly.  The reality is that Housley and Botterill may fix everything but it wasn't going to be this season.  Rather than pull up the prospects from Rochester he left them down there and put together a team that can be successful in the AHL.  He brought in small FA signings to bolster up the roster in Buffalo for this year.  He took the time to evaluate who was capable of what and I we're left with waiting to see how he really molds this team in the coming months.

[Doohickie]

Not to beat a decomposing horse, but...

 

I don't buy that he's kept us in any games that a solid NHL starter would not have also kept us in. He flails around and makes saves look more spectacular than they are at times, because it's a wonder a slow-reflexed, 6'5", 240lbs guy can do it. Most starting goaltenders move much more efficiently than he does, making what might be an "impressive" save by Lehner look routine.

 

Case in point:  Ullmark.  He was very active in the crease in the game he played, but he was far more under control than Lehner.