Sabres Just Stink At Drafting Good Players

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think everyone is over estimating how many of our guys are going to be traded by the deadline.  

 

Right now, I see only Kane and maybe Lehner being traded.  If Reinhart gets moved it will be for immediate help and for someone of similar age and contract .

 

I don't see Pouliot being traded at this point.  He'll garner a 4th rd pick (maybe a late 3rd).  He likes it here and has contributed.  A 3rd rd pick has about a 18% chance of helping the Sabres 4-5 years from now.  My guess is Jbot likes what Pouliot brings to the team and will re-sign him for another year or two and would rather have the depth and veteran leadership now then a the remote possibility of a player 5 years from now.

[Robviously]

It’s too bad he didn’t draft Hawryluk, Masin, Pettersen, Englund, Jacobs, Kamenev, McInnis, Pollock, Bergman, Collins, Aube-Kabel, Collins, McKeown, Daugherty, Letunov, Rod, Smith, Donato, Macleod, Halverson or Lintuniemi, or one of the five goalies you may or may not have heard of.

 

Right now, it looks like there were three players in the 2014 2nd round - Montour, Barbashev and Dvorak.

 

It was ###### draft.

FWIW, this board was all over the Sabres opening Day 2 of the draft by taking Barbashev.  (I had no idea who he was.)

 

This board might have done a better job drafting than the Sabres the past few years.  This speaks to the randomness of the draft and the ineptitude of the Sabres more than anything, since the people here are just reading 4-sentence scouting reports for the prospects and looking at stats to form their opinions.

[dudacek]

I think everyone is over estimating how many of our guys are going to be traded by the deadline.  

 

Right now, I see only Kane and maybe Lehner being traded.  If Reinhart gets moved it will be for immediate help and for someone of similar age and contract .

 

I don't see Pouliot being traded at this point.  He'll garner a 4th rd pick (maybe a late 3rd).  He likes it here and has contributed.  A 3rd rd pick has about a 18% chance of helping the Sabres 4-5 years from now.  My guess is Jbot likes what Pouliot brings to the team and will re-sign him for another year or two and would rather have the depth and veteran leadership now then a the remote possibility of a player 5 years from now.

Meanwhile, yours and Thorny’s dream of Bogosian buyout gets fainter every day.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Meanwhile, yours and Thorny’s dream of Bogosian buyout gets fainter every day.

Why?  What has he done since he returned?

[jsb]

Meanwhile, yours and Thorny’s dream of Bogosian buyout gets fainter every day.

Georgia's and Thorny's dream, how about the godzilla in the room, bunker boy himself tbGED???

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Georgia's and Thorny's dream, how about the godzilla in the room, bunker boy himself tbGED???

 

That reminds me ... I just watched The Bunker staring Anthony Hopkins in the lead role for which he won an Oscar.  I hope our bunker boy's story ends differently ...  ;)

 

++++++

 

Really, I think our bunker boy has resigned himself to the fact that it looks like the Bogo is not going anywhere any time soon.

[dudacek]

Why?  What has he done since he returned?

Brought some stability to the second pair, stood up for his teammates with a pair of fights, and been a breath of fresh air in a dressing room that desperately needed it, while helping the team to its most successful run of the season.

 

Doesn’t matter what you or I think of him, I think it’s pretty clear Housley likes him.

 

I’d also be surprised if the hit the team will take on the cap by buying him out, added to the cost of acquiring an upgrade will make sense to a Botterill’s Moneypuck way of thinking. Better off overpaying him by a million or two for the role he plays.

[bob_sauve28]

People!

 

Sam Reinhart had 47 points in 79 games last year as a 21 year old.  That's....actually pretty good.  He sucks this year but the whole team pretty much does so far outside of Eichel and Kane.

 

It's not over and he could still turn things around with more than half a season left.  He's 22.

I agree. I'd keep him because you never know. 

 

I don't see Pouliot being traded at this point.  He'll garner a 4th rd pick (maybe a late 3rd).  He likes it here and has contributed.  A 3rd rd pick has about a 18% chance of helping the Sabres 4-5 years from now.  My guess is Jbot likes what Pouliot brings to the team and will re-sign him for another year or two and would rather have the depth and veteran leadership now then a the remote possibility of a player 5 years from now.

Better make sure he wants to play here first 

[Sabre fan]

the fact is that both Sam's were highly touted and we would have gone nuts if EXGMTM not had drafted one of them. Furthermore, Sam had a great rookie year and as somebody said earlier this year he sucks but who doesn;t? The draft has become a kind of roulette wheel thing where one never really knows what they are getting, unless his name is Connor or mathew. and lets be fair to EXGMTM EVERYBODY thought we'd get at least one of those two, if not both. I cannot even imagine what this team would be like with BOTH!

 

In the end, we have some good young players in the works and it all comes down to development. Hopefully with the new winning culture we are seeing in Rochester players will come to the big club more NHL ready and able to contribute right away like most other teams' callups seem to do

[GASabresIUFAN]

Brought some stability to the second pair, stood up for his teammates with a pair of fights, and been a breath of fresh air in a dressing room that desperately needed it, while helping the team to its most successful run of the season.

 

Doesn’t matter what you or I think of him, I think it’s pretty clear Housley likes him.

 

I’d also be surprised if the hit the team will take on the cap by buying him out, added to the cost of acquiring an upgrade will make sense to a Botterill’s Moneypuck way of thinking. Better off overpaying him by a million or two for the role he plays.

The guys only plays 60% of the games.  So not only are you overpaying him if he played the entire season, but you are way paying him for the limited games he shows up for.  I'm still in the buyout camp and I think Jbot will be also by year's end.  A couple of fights, a lack of scoring and being funny in the locker room won't protect him long-term.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Georgia Flakt

[Crusader1969]

None. That's what is so depressing.

 

We may get lucky again and get a player or two like Pouliot during the summer that come in a have a positive impact. But time and proper upbringing through your farm system is the only way to insure years of having a really good team.

 

The team wasn't doomed because we tanked for two years, it was doomed because we didn't have a good prospect pool and farm system to train them in for a decade before it.

 

 

nail hit directly on the head

[Thorny]

Brought some stability to the second pair, stood up for his teammates with a pair of fights, and been a breath of fresh air in a dressing room that desperately needed it, while helping the team to its most successful run of the season.

Doesn’t matter what you or I think of him, I think it’s pretty clear Housley likes him.

I’d also be surprised if the hit the team will take on the cap by buying him out, added to the cost of acquiring an upgrade will make sense to a Botterill’s Moneypuck way of thinking. Better off overpaying him by a million or two for the role he plays.

But this is exactly why we need to find a way to move him. The fact we've had our best stretch when Botterill has had his full complement of Defenceman is all the more reason he needs to be replaced. We can't afford to go without that top 4 guy for 20/30 games every year. Look where that got us.

 

I don't care if Bogosian is playing decent while he's in the lineup. It's like clockwork that he won't be in the lineup for long stretches.

 

The fact we are paying him $5 million is a joke. That money is needed for his replacement. Maybe a buyout isn't a feasible option, but as long as Bogo is penciled in to a top 4 role (and he will be, with that cap hit) the Sabres will amount to nothing.

 

He's an absolute scourge on this team.

 

Honestly, I'm resigned to the fact that we're stuck with him for the next 3 seasons. But if they extend his contract beyond that, I'll blow a gasket.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[GASabresIUFAN]

The buyout is perfectly feasible.  

 

From Capfriendly.com

 

Buyout Details

SEASON SALARY     INITIAL CAP HIT ACTUAL COST SAVINGS    BUYOUT CAP HIT

2018-19 $6,000,000  $5,142,857           $2,000,000         $4,000,000  $1,142,857

2019-20 $6,000,000  $5,142,857           $2,000,000         $4,000,000  $1,142,857

2020-21 $0,000,000  $0,000,000           $2,000,000        -$2,000,000  $2,000,000

2021-22 $0,000,000  $0,000,000           $2,000,000        -$2,000,000  $2,000,000

 

 

Dumping him saves $4 mill each of the next two years and only cost $2 mill in years 3&4.  The Cap may rise to $80 plus next season.  By the time 2020 rolls around, a $2 mill cap hit will be meaningless.  (Approx 2% of the projected cap for 2020).

 

The team is likely to stink next year as well, so if we kept for for 2018-19 I won't blow a gasket.  However, there is no excuse to keep him beyond next year unless by some miracle he becomes a better hockey player.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Georgia Flakt

[Thorny]

Ok. In that case:

 

 

Skip to 44 seconds.

[Scottysabres]

People!

 

Sam Reinhart had 47 points in 79 games last year as a 21 year old.  That's....actually pretty good.  He sucks this year but the whole team pretty much does so far outside of Eichel and Kane.

And here in lay the truth. The roster is a bit different, but let's not turn a blind eye to the fact that ROR, Reinhart, Larsson, Girgensons, Eichel and Okposo are all severely under performing from the start of this season.

That is not coincidence. Leadership, not only from an on the ice point of view, but coaching and yes, even the GM's office, is severely absent.

It all com3s down to holding each other, from management down to the staff and players accountable for lackluster play.

 

Bots is formulating his plan, Housley is implementing his system, but the players must turn their competitive motors on.

[Thorny]

And here in lay the truth. The roster is a bit different, but let's not turn a blind eye to the fact that ROR, Reinhart, Larsson, Girgensons, Eichel and Okposo are all severely under performing from the start of this season.

That is not coincidence. Leadership, not only from an on the ice point of view, but coaching and yes, even the GM's office, is severely absent.

It all com3s down to holding each other, from management down to the staff and players accountable for lackluster play.

Bots is formulating his plan, Housley is implementing his system, but the players must turn their competitive motors on.

Not to single you out, but this is getting old. Eichel is underperforming while playing at a near 70 point pace. ROR and Okposo are both outperforming Reinhart, the latter coming off a major health scare. Larsson and Girgensons are nobodies.

 

The "whole team is bad" excuse is just lazy. If some one these guys started playing better, they wouldn't be so bad.

[dudacek]

The guys only plays 60% of the games.  So not only are you overpaying him if he played the entire season, but you are way paying him for the limited games he shows up for.  I'm still in the buyout camp and I think Jbot will be also by year's end.  A couple of fights, a lack of scoring and being funny in the locker room won't protect him long-term.

Oh I think you guys make a decent case, I just don’t think Botterill will agree.

1) I suspect he thinks Bogosian is a better player than you do.

2) I suspect that once he considers the price of replacing Bogo, he will look at it as the following math equation:

Bogo, Foligno* > Bogo replacement, cost of the buyout.

 

I’m using Scandella as an example type of player that might replace Bogo, and Foligno as the cost of acquiring him.

 

The replacement will either have to be significantly better than Bogo, or significantly cheaper to justify adding the cap space and dumping a useful player.

[Thorny]

But what choice does Botterill have but to replace him? We can't succeed with Bogosian counted on in a top 4 roll, he doesn't play enough.

 

He needs to be surpassed on the depth chart, one way or another. If the Sabres can afford to pay him 5 million to be a 60 games third pair D man, fine. But if he's the best option we have at second pair, right side D man, we are behind the 8-ball at season's start, every season.

[Scottysabres]

Not to single you out, but this is getting old. Eichel is underperforming while playing at a near 70 point pace. ROR and Okposo are both outperforming Reinhart, the latter coming off a major health scare. Larsson and Girgensons are nobodies.

The "whole team is bad" excuse is just lazy. If some one these guys started playing better, they wouldn't be so bad.

Oh its not an excuse. They really are bad. Look at the win lose column, the plus minus, the corsi numbers, the time in defensive some scoring chances, the power play ranking.

There is nothing lazy about calling an egg an egg.

[Taro T]

That is an argument from a bygone era that is totally irrelevant to anything the Sabres have done recently.

This current team will be liquidated for picks, insofar as it can be!  

 

What are you going to get for Reinhart these days?  The rebuild has to start over almost from scratch.

 

I mean we suffered through one of the worst if not the worst single Sabres season in their history...really depressing, boring hockey, trying to lose....for a massive reward at the end of it.

 

That reward turned out to be Sam Reinhart, who played so poorly last night, he was benched, and that was after starting on the 4th line, b/c his play has been so bad he has demoted himself to that level.

 

You would like to think you can replace a NO. 2 overall with something of comparable value.  Forget that...

 

We are now in the "Holiday no trade zone" or whatever they call it; come January, we might start to see some moves and then we will be a big time seller at the trade deadline.

 

And it will begin.  Again.

To the bolded, not really. The earliest that the misallocation of scouting resources would have been rectified would have been 2012. And it can be argued that the rectification didn't essentially take effect until 2015 (Murray hadn't fully instilled his crew until after the 2014 draft).

 

That brainfart of Quinn is still paying dividends. Thanks, Larry. <_<