Randall Flagg Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I don't think there's any thread specifically pertaining to this. It's a good discussion to have regardless of the coach of this team, though. I don't mean it to be a "let's pile on DD" thread, I want to learn about his system and the way our players are taught to play. The quote that we most remember from Dan at the start of his tenure was that it's a tough play for the defenseman to turn around and find the puck. As such, we see a lot of rushes where the puck gets thrown in the zone, when perhaps you'd expect that player to carry, especially if it's a guy like Reinhart/O'Reilly/Okposo doing it, this is on top of the dumps that are obvious, which every player on every team does - when alone at the end of a shift, when the neutral zone and blue line are totally clogged, etc. I obviously don't like this, but others might think differently.I've outlined this elsewhere, but it seems we have the defensemen get the puck to the one with the best shot at a stretch pass, not just an outlet pass. These passes are almost always long. The wingers are slow/stationary in the neutral zone on the boards waiting for them, and deflect them behind the defensemen of the other team, and go to get them. When Bylsma says "fast hockey" I think he means that the puck gets zipped up and tipped in very quickly, and we skate fast to go get it. It's not the fast hockey I thought we'd get, the passing plays we see lots of teams like Florida/Pittsburgh/Dallas etc play. I'm trying not to be positive or negative, I'm just trying to state what I see.When we dump the puck in, it feels like the forwards aren't sure where to go, or that the dump-er isn't sure where to put the puck. Not sure if that's on them or the coaches. We lose a lot of the races we should be winning as a dump-first team, though. In the d-zone, we FINALLY have a system that puts pressure on the point-men, and so those point shot goals we became so used to seeing have gone way down. I still believe that that had nothing to do with Miller's vision. In the o-zone, we try and cycle. The FLG line is great at it, and so is O'Reilly. And Okposo. The center, when in the middle of the ice, seems to rove along the top of the slot. There aren't a lot of guys close to the net, but we're pretty good along the boards and Kulikov/Risto can really handle the puck well at the point. Whatever anyone else wants to add and discuss about the system the Sabres use, post here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 There is a big difference between Dump and Chase and Chip and Chase. A lot of time I hear people complaining about the Dump, it's actually a forward just chipping it past the D-man. It actually allows the forward to enter the zone even quicker and not really lose possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 There is a big difference between Dump and Chase and Chip and Chase. A lot of time I hear people complaining about the Dump, it's actually a forward just chipping it past the D-man. It actually allows the forward to enter the zone even quicker and not really lose possession. I see us do both quite a bit honestly. And the chip and chase is pretty slow, because as I've described there's a lot of waiting for the puck in the neutral zone, and our players just generally aren't fast. We have looked slower than every team we've played so far, both because of our personnel and because of our system, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I know every coach goes Alamo mode, but since Bylsma doesn't not-go-Alamo-mode, I'll mention it in here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I know every coach goes Alamo mode, but since Bylsma doesn't not-go-Alamo-mode, I'll mention it in here too. 3-0 in the third? I dont even want Alamo. I want those British soldiers in the Zulu movie, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Can you append 'Sucks' to the title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) I'm going to take some notes here as the game goes on.Samson had a little pass to send Girgensons up to the line. The right move for Girgensons was to chip it by the defender, who was there waiting for him, and he did, and we got some zone pressure.My issue isn't with Girgensons' chip.The forwards were spread out across the whole entire blue line, Sam in the center, Ennis on the left, Zemgus on the right. There's no puck support in transition. When I say I want the Sabres to carry the puck in, I'm not saying I should expect every player to do an Eichel zone entry. Even the best team in the league only has 2 or 3 guys who can regularly do that. If you watch Tampa/Chicago/Florida etc, there are set neutral zone pass plays with players nearby. They are designed to create little odd man rushes within the neutral zone, still 2 D back but in this spot there are two forwards and one winger or something, and the pass gets made and new seams are made. Coaches make these plays and teach their players to do it. THIS is how carried zone entries happen. The way we do it, we can only carry in if the D gives us space, and even then there's nowhere to go with the puck. Bylsma employs NONE of this passing stuff that you can see almost every team do in the neutral zone when you watch the national game every night. THAT's what I mean by carrying versus dump ins.The crux of the issue is that the forwards rushing have no support, so they either have room to carry in (and no one to pass to because of how far away everyone is) or they have to get rid of it by dumping, and that stems from not making these pass plays and having a base strategy of a long stretch pass to forwards that are incredibly spread out. Edited October 27, 2016 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Watching closely, it really does seem to be all they've got as a strategy. There's no hint of anything else. Sometimes we get a lucky bounce and can set up stuff in the offensive zone. Lots of times we give up possession. From what I can tell, our in-zone play with possession is fine, though I don't know as much about that zone as I do the middle one, I think. In the d-zone I think the system is fine but I think a lot of our players have no idea what they're doing, namely Girgensons, who has never looked good when told how to play, which is why he was awesome under Nolan. I'll also stress that with all of this going on, we still can score 3 or 6 goals in a game. This team has potential. My belief is that it isn't close to being maximized.Watching Minnesota's structure and comparing it to ours, it's not even close. And when Eichel and Kane come back, they don't fix this problem - they just have the ability to make those dazzling 1v1 rushes end in goals sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Good stuff here Flagg. Keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Thanks d4rk.Yeah, from what I see these guys know what to do in the zone. I think getting there is 100% the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 I love this running commentary--it's covering all the specific things I yell about during the game, but forget 95% of afterwards when I'm bitching about Bylsma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 I love this running commentary--it's covering all the specific things I yell about during the game, but forget 95% of afterwards when I'm bitching about Bylsma. Well this is the spot. I don't want to be the only one in here talking about various parts of the system! I miss X. I wish he was here to tell us what he sees. He'd be able to dissect what's happening within the o and d zones much better than I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Good analysis. Every game I'm losing more and more faith in Bylsma. It seems we're at a point where other teams know exactly what to expect when they play us, and it makes us look terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Offensively, we seem to avoid the slot like the plague. We never pass into it, we just try to pass through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well this is the spot. I don't want to be the only one in here talking about various parts of the system! I miss X. I wish he was here to tell us what he sees. He'd be able to dissect what's happening within the o and d zones much better than I can. Another game! Midterm grades due tomorrow, and uh...procrastination n stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Another game! Midterm grades due tomorrow, and uh...procrastination n stuff. I have an open GRE prep book on the table across the room :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacque Richard Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Far from a tough team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 I think a car hit a skunk in the street near my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 The system..... put your skates on... Tie your laces..... And lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 The system..... put your skates on... Tie your laces..... And lose Sounds like the prison system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Sounds like the prison system. Have the Sabres bent over?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Have the Sabres bent over?? Maybe they can find a coach named Ben Dover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Maybe they can find a coach named Ben Dover.With goaltending Coach Hugh Jass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 With goaltending Coach Hugh Jass If Dick Butkus can survive a life with his name, anyone can overcome the odds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Maybe they can find a coach named Ben Dover. With goaltending Coach Hugh Jass If Dick Butkus can survive a life with his name, anyone can overcome the odds All this talk about our terrible system is enough to turn me in to Al Coholic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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