What Should GMTM Do Now?

[bob_sauve28]

Yes indeedly, although if we can get Fowler for Nylander we have to seriously consider it.

What? Ummm....no

I'm not trading Nylander to get Fowler, not now not ever. We are short of LW talent in the pipeline and we need Nylander to take over for Kane (or maybe Ennis) within a year or two.

 

Also we are really talking about upgrading the 3rd D pairing. I'd love get Fowler, but our top 4 when healthy is good between Bogo, Kulikov, Risto and McCabe. The goal here is to get a puck mover who can skate to replace Franson.

Exactly. Get a player that is at least physically up to the task of hitting. Nelson is not

[nfreeman]

According to Winnipeg media Armia dazzled in the home opener and is quickly tipping the balance of that trade in the jets favour.

I have no doubt that everyone in Winnipeg wants this to be the case, and plenty of doubts that it will prove out.

[Thorny]

According to Winnipeg media Armia dazzled in the home opener and is quickly tipping the balance of that trade in the jets favour.

The Free Press ran a front page sports article the other day comparing Armia to Selanne. The Winnipeg media is a joke.

Yes indeedly, although if we can get Fowler for Nylander we have to seriously consider it.

My first reaction was to wince, but then I remembered I wanted to trade the pick for Fowler. At some point we are going to HAVE to improve the defence. Nylander looks like a very good talent, and I'm not saying I would necessarily do it, but we need immediate D help. Where else is it going to come from? Can't we just draft another skilled forward when we pick in the first again next draft? Fowler can play now, and he's a quality NHL defenceman. A proven talent.

 

It wouldn't even be Hall for Larsson level. Not even close.

[TrueBlueGED]

The Free Press ran a front page sports article the other day comparing Armia to Selanne. The Winnipeg media is a joke.

 

My first reaction was to wince, but then I remembered I wanted to trade the pick for Fowler. At some point we are going to HAVE to improve the defence. Nylander looks like a very good talent, and I'm not saying I would necessarily do it, but we need immediate D help. Where else is it going to come from? Can't we just draft another skilled forward when we pick in the first again next draft? Fowler can play now, and he's a quality NHL defenceman. A proven talent.

 

It wouldn't even be Hall for Larsson level. Not even close.

 

Maybe I just like Nylander more than many do, but I think he's going to be an all-star level two-way player, and I would argue that his skillset is as missing on the wings as Fowler's is on the blue line. The money difference also should be considered pretty important. Nylander is going to be cheap for at least three years, and while Fowler's current value is very good, it's only for two more years and he still makes 4x what Nylander would on his ELC. And this doesn't even touch what happens if Kane leaves in two years and Reinhart does make the transition to center. 

 

Fowler is exactly what we need on the back end, but I don't think robbing Peter to pay Paul really gets us anywhere--Nylander's in the NHL full time next season IMO. The 2017 #1  is still something I don't want to part with, but I think it makes a lot more sense for that to be the centerpiece of the deal. 2017 1st, top-3 protected? 

[Thorny]

Maybe I just like Nylander more than many do, but I think he's going to be an all-star level two-way player, and I would argue that his skillset is as missing on the wings as Fowler's is on the blue line. The money difference also should be considered pretty important. Nylander is going to be cheap for at least three years, and while Fowler's current value is very good, it's only for two more years and he still makes 4x what Nylander would on his ELC. And this doesn't even touch what happens if Kane leaves in two years and Reinhart does make the transition to center. 

 

Fowler is exactly what we need on the back end, but I don't think robbing Peter to pay Paul really gets us anywhere--Nylander's in the NHL full time next season IMO. The 2017 #1  is still something I don't want to part with, but I think it makes a lot more sense for that to be the centerpiece of the deal. 2017 1st, top-3 protected?

 

Good points. I'm certainly dealing the first in a deal for Fowler, though.

 

On Kane, I feel like it's a near certainty he's gone in 2 years.

 

Edit - of course, the Leafs look great today. Urgh.

[TrueBlueGED]

Good points. I'm certainly dealing the first in a deal for Fowler, though.

 

On Kane, I feel like it's a near certainty he's gone in 2 years.

 

Edit - of course, the Leafs look great today. Urgh.

 

On the bright side, the Leafs looking great also involves the Bruins looking terribad. I'll take it.

[Thorny]

On the bright side, the Leafs looking great also involves the Bruins looking terribad. I'll take it.

True. And Matthews can't get an assist. Phfffff. It's not like it took Jack unnaturally long to get one last year, or anything.

[Ogre]

Are the odds better that Nylander becomes another Gaborik, or another Armia?

I've only seen Nylander play live last night. Very small sampling but he looks to have above average skills, vision, iq, etc. The pass to Cole in front of the net was right on the tape. I never saw Armia make a play like that in the multiple times I've seen him play. Armia was good along the wall but Nylander looked fast and creative wherever he was,especially down the middle. He broke free and lifted the stick for a nice break. He also made his fair share of rookie mistakes. I'll let you know how I perceive his development but so far that kids a keeper IMO.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Armia is never going to be a good NHL player. If was going to make an impact he'd have already shown something. At 23 to only have 4g and 10pts in 45 nhl games isn't showing anything.

[Thorny]

Armia is never going to be a good NHL player. If was going to make an impact he'd have already shown something. At 23 to only have 4g and 10pts in 45 nhl games isn't showing anything.

He's a future impact top 6 winger, just ask Ducky. (Or the Winnipeg Free Press)

[GASabresIUFAN]

He's a future impact top 6 winger, just ask Ducky. (Or the Winnipeg Free Press)

In the KHL.

 

Any other D who could be had for a reasonable price?

[StuckinFL]

As soon as Kulikov, Okposo amd ROR are feeling 100% we'll be fine. Not blow-your-mind-spectacular, but fine. I fully expect ROR and to an extent Samson to rally the team in due time. GMTM doesn't need to do a thing except sit back and evaluate.

[deluca67]

Yes indeedly, although if we can get Fowler for Nylander we have to seriously consider it.

The biggest factor is that Fowler is still only 24 years old and is in his 7th year, the rare youth with experience combo.. So it's not like you are giving up youth for a veteran on the downside. 

 

Established NHL talent for this team should be the priority. Sometimes we gt two attached to 1st round picks. Wasn't too long ago the Sabres had 4 1st round picks in 2 years. What do we have show for it? One quality NHL player at this point and 2 have been shipped out.  

[dudacek]

Are the odds better that Nylander becomes another Gaborik, or another Armia?

Gaborik. His hands and feet are better than any player in the organization save Jack.

And physically he's still a child.

[beerme1]

Yes indeedly, although if we can get Fowler for Nylander we have to seriously consider it.

 

What else are we getting?

 

 

No, we don't have to seriously consider it. In fact, I would assume it was already considered and rejected around the draft.

 

As it should be. I'll give them next years first as I said previously but not Nylander.

 

 

Edm and LAK are the two team which supposedly had a bit of interest in him over the off season

 

 

 

I certainly would not; Nylander/a 1st > Fowler for the Sabres

 

I think we are all with the wookie1!

 

 

Are the odds better that Nylander becomes another Gaborik, or another Armia?

 

Hard to say this but it's a laughable question unless Armia has suddenly woke up. Nylander has a lot of it factor. I'll bank on him in the current version of the NHL.

Edited October 16, 2016 by beerme1

[Two or less]

As soon as Kulikov, Okposo amd ROR are feeling 100% we'll be fine. Not blow-your-mind-spectacular, but fine. I fully expect ROR and to an extent Samson to rally the team in due time. GMTM doesn't need to do a thing except sit back and evaluate.

 

I don't think so. The defense is a absolute joke. Nelson is a disaster. Franson and Gorges are closer to being next to Carlo Colaiacovo then to impact players. Bogosian hasn't been consistent enough either. Kulikov is a nice addition, but the problem with getting too excited about adding him is we lost a pretty decent defensman in Pysyk in the process.

 

I'm not sure what Murray can do, though. I wouldn't trade Nylander for a Fowler though. Next years draft is looking like it lacks d-men, if that continues to be the theory, i wouldn't be too opposed to trading the first round pick for some d-men. It's not that we need d-men right now to compete, we need a overhaul on defense if we ever want to win.

 

This time next year, we'll have Guhle and Anthony Florentino at our disposal, unless Florentino pulls a Vesey on us. So, some help is on the way through the farm, atleast.

[nucci]

What should he do?  No major moves for now.  This team is not winning the cup this year...play what you have and give it time to see who steps up when the opportunity presents itself.

 

Of course, if there is a trade out there that you really love and is a steal, make it...but do NOT force anything.

Do you know when they will win the Cup........since it's not this year?

[nfreeman]

To be clear, I have no desire to trade Nylander. I just think it is classic Sabrespace trade self-delusion to think we are getting him for anything less than that.

 

I also think it's a real and interesting discussion -- the shiny new forward toy with nifty Euro skills (who didn't earn any serious consideration of making the roster out of camp, btw) who might be a good NHL forward in a couple of years, vs a good, young, fast defenseman who would move into the top pair immediately.

[3putt]

To be clear, I have no desire to trade Nylander. I just think it is classic Sabrespace trade self-delusion to think we are getting him for anything less than that.

I also think it's a real and interesting discussion -- the shiny new forward toy with nifty Euro skills (who didn't earn any serious consideration of making the roster out of camp, btw) who might be a good NHL forward in a couple of years, vs a good, young, fast defenseman who would move into the top pair immediately.

If Fowler was as good as everyone seems to think, he wouldn't be available. He is a good skater and young. And yes he would be an upgrade. But he is not a game changer. If a reasonable deal presents itself great. But we need players like Nylander to step into roles beginning next year and it is not uncommon for a highly touted player to not make the NHL roster in their draft year. I think Nylander is more valuable than Fowler in the long run.

[Randall Flagg]

If Fowler was as good as everyone seems to think, he wouldn't be available. He is a good skater and young. And yes he would be an upgrade. But he is not a game changer. If a reasonable deal presents itself great. But we need players like Nylander to step into roles beginning next year and it is not uncommon for a highly touted player to not make the NHL roster in their draft year. I think Nylander is more valuable than Fowler in the long run.

Correction: If Anaheim wasn't a budget team that needs to pay Lindholm, then Fowler wouldn't be available.

[3putt]

Correction: If Anaheim wasn't a budget team that needs to pay Lindholm, then Fowler wouldn't be available.

If Fowler was a true #1 he wouldn't be available internal cap or no internal cap. Somebody else may have to go like a Rakell but you wouldn't give up a Jossi, Keith, Doughty Letang for budget reasons. You would look elsewhere. It is similar to the Sabres saying yeah Bogo is available, while Jack and Sam or Risto are not on the block unless McDavid is coming back.

[qwksndmonster]

To be clear, I have no desire to trade Nylander. I just think it is classic Sabrespace trade self-delusion to think we are getting him for anything less than that.

 

I also think it's a real and interesting discussion -- the shiny new forward toy with nifty Euro skills (who didn't earn any serious consideration of making the roster out of camp, btw) who might be a good NHL forward in a couple of years, vs a good, young, fast defenseman who would move into the top pair immediately.

The second paragraph is basically just defining a prospect. Nylander is very likely (I hope) the last blue chip prospect this team is going to see in a long time. We're going to need talented young players on cheap contracts when we're contending for a cup.

 

Anaheim has their back against the wall with the cap. Once Lindholm signs, I don't think they're going to get anywhere near fair value for Fowler. Does that mean Foligno/Girgensons plus our 2017 first gets it done? Maybe.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If Fowler was a true #1 he wouldn't be available internal cap or no internal cap. Somebody else may have to go like a Rakell but you wouldn't give up a Jossi, Keith, Doughty Letang for budget reasons. You would look elsewhere. It is similar to the Sabres saying yeah Bogo is available, while Jack and Sam or Risto are not on the block unless McDavid is coming back.

Fowler isn't a Norris caliber player, but he is a top pairing D for many teams and is certainly a top 2 pairing D for all teams. He is also a top notch puck mover. He is available because AnA has non-moveable contracts in Bieksa, Stoner and Despres (costing alomst 11 million) and they have 2 top prospects to replace him in Theodore and Montour a 25% of the cost.  However Lindholm is the Norris caliber guy and they must re-sign.  

 

Right now, after signing Rakell, who is injured, they are bumping near the actual cap.  It's probably going to take 2-3 moves to get Lindholm signed and get back to budget. My guess is they are going to have to have some kind of fire sale to get it done.  Stoner may have to be given away for a back of pucks and keeping at least $1mill of his salary.  Fowler will net something decent, but not as much as some have argued.  If he could bring the star and moon, he'd have already been traded.

 

Right now I'll revise my trade for Fowler, especially in light of our injuries.  One of (Bailey, Fasching or Baptiste), a 2nd this year(Minn) and a conditional 3rd this season (either Washington this season or our next season) depending on how Fowler performs for Fowler, Garbutt and Josh Manson.

 

The RW prospect will jump right into Ana's lineup.  Also by us taking Garbutt, Manson and Fowler we are taking on 5.7 mill in capo hit.   So how do we pay for this hit?  We have 2.288 in cap + 1.5 from LTIR for McCormick.  We also have LTIR for Jack and Evander, which if both are gone for 25% of the season we get another 1.5 in overage.  Now send Nelson and Franson to the AHL.  This saves 1.6 in cap.  Manson becomes are 7th D.  Fowler pairs with Risto, McCabe with Bogo, Gorges with Kulikov.  

 

Garbutt can play 4th line or also be demoted.

Edited October 16, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[3putt]

Fowler is not even the top pair on his own team. Would he be the top 4 here.  But I would not overpay for him.  He is a Zach Bogosian clone without the injury history.  He also will want big money in 2 years. We would have to expose another player in expansion all for a player who will have only a marginal impact.  Fowler is prone to the same defensive gaffes as Bogo with only a marginal increase in offense. I don't think GMTM should do anything at the moment until we see Kulikov, Risto, Bogo and McCabe for at least 10 games.  By then if Lindholm is still unsigned the price may come down.  

[Randall Flagg]

If Fowler was a true #1 he wouldn't be available internal cap or no internal cap. Somebody else may have to go like a Rakell but you wouldn't give up a Jossi, Keith, Doughty Letang for budget reasons. You would look elsewhere. It is similar to the Sabres saying yeah Bogo is available, while Jack and Sam or Risto are not on the block unless McDavid is coming back.

Well, who has called Fowler a stud #1?

Fowler is not even the top pair on his own team. Would he be the top 4 here. But I would not overpay for him. He is a Zach Bogosian clone without the injury history. He also will want big money in 2 years. We would have to expose another player in expansion all for a player who will have only a marginal impact. Fowler is prone to the same defensive gaffes as Bogo with only a marginal increase in offense. I don't think GMTM should do anything at the moment until we see Kulikov, Risto, Bogo and McCabe for at least 10 games. By then if Lindholm is still unsigned the price may come down.

There is a clear gap between Fowler and Bogosian. It's not really close.