PASabreFan Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Then don't claim you made the case, especially with airy references to the Winter Classic and "Game Sevens" that don't support it. As for why many fans "give him a pass" -- perhaps it's not for the condescending non-reasons you propose, but rather because they believe that for most of his career here, he was a very good-to-great goalie. Some things are anecdotal. Big games on the line and you can't stop two Crosby chip shots. Some are statistical. It's more your obligation to have understood and retained the information than it is mine to regurgitate it. You look it up. You're the one suggesting it's nonsense. That Game 5 comeback against the Rags doesn't happen if he lets in a second goal, right? Vezina Trophies and Olympics MVP awards don't get handed to average players. Stop trying to manufacture a story where there isn't one. I wouldn't call him average. Just overrated and not elite. I wonder what you're going to say when they announce 31 is going to the rafters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Some things are anecdotal. Big games on the line and you can't stop two Crosby chip shots. Some are statistical. It's more your obligation to have understood and retained the information than it is mine to regurgitate it. You look it up. You're the one suggesting it's nonsense. I wouldn't call him average. Just overrated and not elite. I wonder what you're going to say when they announce 31 is going to the rafters. 31? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 31? Don't be such a stickler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaught Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Miller + Enroth = 31? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Don't be such a stickler. If you mean 30, no, I don't think it should be retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) If you mean 30, no, I don't think it should be retired.Agreed. Personally don't believe anyone not in the rafters yet (and even a few that are there) has earned inclusion in that exclusive club. (Ducks as Mogilny supporters throw things. :p) Edited December 18, 2015 by Taro T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Agreed. Personally don't believe anyone not in the rafters yet (and even a few that are there) has earned inclusion in that exclusive club. (Ducks as Mogilny supporters throw things. :P) Yep. No reason for 16 and 18 to be up there. 14 and 7 only if you're into the nostalgia of that whole line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 He only tried on Olympic years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I wouldn't call him average. Just overrated and not elite. I wonder what you're going to say when they announce 31 is going to the rafters. So for years you pined for the Sabres to get rid of an above average goalie for what reason then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yep. No reason for 16 and 18 to be up there. 14 and 7 only if you're into the nostalgia of that whole line. Or 2. There's really no reason for his number to be retired at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yep. No reason for 16 and 18 to be up there. 14 and 7 only if you're into the nostalgia of that whole line. You don't think 7 belongs up there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 You don't think 7 belongs up there? IMO it should be 11 and *shudder* 39. That's it. *feels dirty* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 So for years you pined for the Sabres to get rid of an above average goalie for what reason then? Maybe I wanted more than above average (Lake Wobegon hockey). Maybe I didn't like personality change that occurred over the years. Maybe, after the 2010 Olympics, I thought his value would never be higher. Maybe a little later on I thought Enroth was ready. Maybe I didn't like the way he chewed kale. My interest in talking more about Miller is waning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 It's been analyzed ad nauseum... his career statistics show that Ryan Miller is in fact an average goaltender. He had that one monster year, but that was an exception. People need to get the idea of him being an elite goalie out of their heads. The only measuring stick wrt Buffalo Sabres netmidners should be Hasek. Trading Brian Campbell was also good foresight. He's been on the decline the last couple of seasons. :unsure: He's currently miles better than Weber, Coco, Franson and Gorges. He can still skate, pass and carry the puck, I'd welcome him back with open arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Or 2. There's really no reason for his number to be retired at all. I think that a guy who dies as an active member of a team deserves his number retired. Maybe not in the rafters, but no one wears that again. Just my opinion. You don't think 7 belongs up there? Not unless we're celebrating the line. Which *might* deserve celebration; without it, Buffalo may not have been so electrified by pro hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Maybe I wanted more than above average (Lake Wobegon hockey). Maybe I didn't like personality change that occurred over the years. Maybe, after the 2010 Olympics, I thought his value would never be higher. Maybe a little later on I thought Enroth was ready. Maybe I didn't like the way he chewed kale. My interest in talking more about Miller is waning... Thanks for confirming what I already knew. For years with Sabres rosters crammed with mostly mediocre and bad players you instead chose to pillory the guy who was the least of our problems. And the number of posts you've made in this thread doesn't support your waning interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Thanks for confirming what I already knew. For years with Sabres rosters crammed with mostly mediocre and bad players you instead chose to pillory the guy who was the least of our problems. And the number of posts you've made in this thread doesn't support your waning interest. Very interesting observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Can it be as simple as comparing numbers? Doesn't having a Miller allow a more aggressive style to be played in front of him. I would think that the Sabres goaltender numbers are more about a commitment to team defense. Through 33 games compared to last season the Sabres have given up 23 less goals. That's a significant decrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Can it be as simple as comparing numbers? Doesn't having a Miller allow a more aggressive style to be played in front of him. I would think that the Sabres goaltender numbers are more about a commitment to team defense. Through 33 games compared to last season the Sabres have given up 23 less goals. That's a significant decrease. Abso-freaking-lutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Thanks for confirming what I already knew. For years with Sabres rosters crammed with mostly mediocre and bad players you instead chose to pillory the guy who was the least of our problems. And the number of posts you've made in this thread doesn't support your waning interest. It's not that complicated. We all wanted the core broken up. Miller was the heart of the core. I just got there earlier than most. In 2010 a lot of people still thought those guys were going to lead us somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 It's not that complicated. We all wanted the core broken up. Miller was the heart of the core. I just got there earlier than most. In 2010 a lot of people still thought those guys were going to lead us somewhere. Uh huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Rhea Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Thanks for confirming what I already knew. For years with Sabres rosters crammed with mostly mediocre and bad players you instead chose to pillory the guy who was the least of our problems. And the number of posts you've made in this thread doesn't support your waning interest. And that is the rub. You think he wasn't a problem and were totally fine with average play, apparently, whereas me and some others didn't buy into the Ryan Miller is elite propaganda machine that many fans spewed and thought he was a big part of the problem and wanted a better goalie and better goalie play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 And that is the rub. You think he wasn't a problem and were totally fine with average play, apparently, whereas me and some others didn't buy into the Ryan Miller is elite propaganda machine that many fans spewed and thought he was a big part of the problem and wanted a better goalie and better goalie play. My comment had nothing do with elite, I was responding to PA and his statement that he believed Miller was above average yet still wanted him gone anyway. If you feel that Miller was an average NHL goalie over his entire Sabres career, well then I can't help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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