Get to Know - Disco Dan Bylsma

[MBHockey13]

The top 2 draft picks where easy. McDavid and Eichel where a can't lose pick'm.

 

The coaching hierarchy  is more difficult to decipher for me.

 

It seems obvious that Babcock is the coaching version of Conner McDavid, highly wanted and a few teams may be prepared to go to extremes to get what they want.

 

But a clear cut, head and shoulders above the rest No.2 (the Jack Eichel) where teams are going all out to acquire his services after Babcock is taken is not as apparent.

 

Maybe Blysma is Eichel, but I don't see it. He seems more like a Reinhart. A nice pick up in a normal draft year.

 

I'm afraid Blysma would be Dick Jauron. He was coach of the year in the NFL in 2001. We all know how he worked out for the Bills.

 

But he's going to the Devils. It's going to happen. So this whole thread is moot.

[...]

3) Has he had a single interview we know of yet? I think his reputation among the hockey media is much better than in the real hockey circles. Still early in the process though, so time will tell.

 

Goes for Torts, too, although I think his rep is strongest amongst armchair GMs, and only ranks in the media as a source for season-long drama.

[qwksndmonster]

He's the fastest coach to 200.....and 250 wins in NHL history, and he just did that.

 

Development? You can't have it both ways. You can't say a guy is all about riding the coattails of Crosby and Malkin, yet they were 21 and 22 and out of the playoffs when Bylsma took over.....then went on to win the Cup, and over the next 5 years played less than 200 games together.

 

Maybe his name has been quiet because he was collecting the remaining contract while having part time Team USA (oh the horror!), and analyst gigs?

It's possible, but if he had gotten an offer I think he'd be coaching instead of analyzing.  

 

The "out of the playoffs when Bylsma took over" stuff is overblown.  They lost in the cup finals to Detroit the year before.  Bylsma didn't take over for a basement dweller and turn them into world beaters, he got a group of players that were sick of their old coach and benefited from a change.  Even the Sabres got a boost from the change to Ronner freakin' Rolston.

 

And why does it matter so much that Crosby and Malkin played less than 200 games together?  Both centers are still light years better than anything Lindy had to work with during his entire tenure as Sabres HC.

[...]

Would you like me to write 8 paragraphs about him in the general coaching thread? It doesn't matter what we think, it's what Tim Murray (I hope) thinks, or Terry Pegula.

 

There is a 2 part series following him during daily prep and practice. The videos are much longer. I think X might like as most of it is him watching and distributing film, talking about individual players with his assistants, and going through strategy for specific games. He gets as specific as to what side locks when, why they are doing it different that night, getting back on transition, etc.

 

He talks so fast that those players must be very prepared......

 

I'm willing to be sold on Blysma, but I haven't seen anything that has won me over.  He's charming on video, but, mmmm....still not sold.

[Neo]

1) It would eliminate most coaches, which has always kind of been my point about coaching in hockey. But I think we're in a position to get a truly elite coach, and Bylsma isn't that. We know what Bylsma is, and I don't think there's any real upside there. I'd much rather roll the dice on a guy like Blashill if we miss out on Babcock and McLellan. Potentially lower floor, but he could turn into one of those few coaches who really makes a difference.

2) I find Jack Adams trophies to be relatively meaningless as they almost always go to the coach of the surprise team that year.

3) Has he had a single interview we know of yet? I think his reputation among the hockey media is much better than in the real hockey circles. Still early in the process though, so time will tell.

2). I agree.

3). Insight.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'm willing to be sold on Blysma, but I haven't seen anything that has won me over.  He's charming on video, but, mmmm....still not sold.

 

Here's a fun article when Bylsma was 25 games into his coaching career.

 

Note that Bylsma PLAYED for Babcock in Anaheim. Bylsma went to Babcock to tell him they should switch their meetings to the morning so special teams had more time to digest the game plan. Babcock thought the players were too dull for that and would forget. Oh, and Babcock said that Bylsma was born to be a coach and will be as long as he wants.  

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2009/news?id=4077577

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

1) It would eliminate most coaches, which has always kind of been my point about coaching in hockey. But I think we're in a position to get a truly elite coach, and Bylsma isn't that. We know what Bylsma is, and I don't think there's any real upside there.

 

 

He only became the fastest coach to 250 wins in NHL history and is 44 years old.

 

Not Bowman, not Blake, not Arbor, not Punch, and certainly not a 52 year old Babcock who has a worse playoff record than Bylsma and who lost to Bylsma in the Cup.....it's Bylsma

 

 

 

 

Bylsma to me is the ultimate example of just another guy. I don't think he makes his teams worse, but I don't see any value added either. I can't think of a team he's coached that exceeded expectations. With good players he'll be okay, but that's it.

 

 

If he's just another guy, and has historic success because of good players....Then here's an offer to Terry Pegula......save yourself $50 million and put X or Taro behind the bench and they can tell the #1 and #2 drafted forwards in 2 consecutive years...."Hey Jack, Samson......just go whirl around there for 60 minutes and win me a Stanley Cup!"

 

 

Did any player really develop under Bylsma in Pittsburgh? Maybe it was crappy drafting and maybe it was crappy coaching...but given the importance of developing our young players, I'm not enthusiastic about betting on the problem being crappy drafting and Bylsma being some innocent bystander in the whole thing. And don't even get me started on the Olympic debacle.

 

The Penguins top draft choices the 6 years Bylsma was coach were.....

 

'08  #120

'09  #30

'10  #20

'11  #23

'12 #8

'13 #44

 

Now......I could pull up a few dozen of your old posts so we can see what you said the odds of getting any meaningful production out of guys taken in that range or below....but I think that would be overkill.

 

For "Just a guy"......he sure left his team in a tough spot.

 

And if you think he is just a guy......he won the cup with this group on defense:

 

Letang (21 years old)

 

Gonchar (35)

 

Orpik  (28)

 

Hal Gil  (34)

 

Scuderi (30)

 

Eaton (32)

 

Those were his top 6 guys......and he won the Stanley Cup

 

Compare those guys to

 

Ristolainen (20)

 

Bogosian (24)

 

Zadorov (20)

 

Gorges (30)

 

Weber (27)

 

Pysyk (23)

 

 

Do you think there is any huge talent and skill set difference between those 2 groups? I don't know about you, but to me they look like the EXACT same group, except the Sabres have more upside going forward. And for all of the complaining I see about the NHL being boring and in the playoffs it is grinding hockey and no scoring.......what makes you think Babcock can get more out of this group under those circumstances? Is the NHL suddenly going to call 30 penalties a game again and move to an Olympic sized ice surface?

 

Crosby (21)  Malkin (22) .......Eichel (19)  Reinhart (20)

 

Kunitz (20) Stall (29).......Kane (23) Girgensons (21)

 

Satan (34) Fedotenko (30).......Ennis (25) Moulson (31)

 

Talbot (25) Tyler Kennedy (22) Craid Adams (32) Cooke (30) Dupuis (30)........Foligno (23) Larsson (22) Gionta (36) Deslauries (24) Hodgson (25)

 

 

Go right down the line and tell me that is not close to the exact same skillset and potential?

 

The only thing missing for Buffalo is a Bill Guerin, and sadly, a Marc-Andre Fleury....who many think is average at best here anyway.. It's the exact same team but younger....has the potential to be as lethal on the offensive side....and has more grit to go with their skill by a tiny bit in combination.

 

 

Now you can say he is just another guy....but the facts are:

 

Bylsma won 250 games quicker than ANY coach in the history of the NHL, and did it at 38-43 years old....and is still on the experience of 1 NHL job, and only 5 months in the AHL, while still not in his prime.

 

Bylsma, because of his success, was rewarded with an AVERAGE FIRST DRAFT PICK of #40 and a median of #27 in his 6 years as coach.

 

Bylsma won a Cup with a heavy dose of hard working veterans who were limited in their offensive potential, and a handful of elite talented players 22 or younger.

 

 

I can't think of any coach who has had more success, works harder, combines knowledge, hard work, and levity, and is nowhere near his prime.

 

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I would LOVE to want to find a way to carve out $2000 a year to give to Terry Pegula because I am excited to be down at the arena and pregame at his dining establishment. I am begging for someone to come in that represents the personality of this city, and who can ice a group of players I can be proud of and actually have the ability to win. For nearly a decade, I have sadly found more utility in watching Three's Company and Barney Miller on Antenna TV with my dog, a 6 pack, and my sanity.

 

 

Dan Bylsma.....Tim Murray.....and this roster.....just may be enough to stop me from being the Mr. Roper of the Buffalo Sabres Fanbase.

[LastPommerFan]

I'm f'n Sold.

 

I'll be fine with babcock, but I'm liking Disco Dan.

Nice work Ghost.

[WildCard]

Well Byslma's success wasn't what gave him such low draft picks, the Pens GM trading them away did. What average draft pick would he have received if he had a first? What average draft pick did Babcock receive from all his success. And, how did Byslma fair in cultivating those picks opposed to Babcock in grooming his? 

[dudacek]

Drane, I have never seen you (or any Sabrespacer) sell somebody this hard.

Is it because you know Murray reads the board?

[Neo]

He's got Bylsma at 20:1 at Caesars.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Neo

[Kruppstahl]

Bylsma is going to be the next coach of the New Jersey Devils, now that Shero is there. Book it.

This is entirely possible and I hope you are right.

 

If Bylsma coaches in NJ, that means he can't coach here.

Thank God.

 

We don't want this guy, trust me on this one!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

He's got Bylsma at 20:1 at Caesars.

 

:)

 

Actually, both he and Babcock were 11:4 according to Schopp.

 

 

In all honesty.....like I have said, Babcock is a better version of Lindy, and 99% of what we have heard the past 2 weeks is about him and nobody else. I think I have seen luke Richardson's name mentioned 2 times here....and wasn't he the media slam dunk a few months ago?

 

We just went through 2 decades of Lindy Ruff hockey without a Cup. Mike Babcock had 1 Cup in his entire career and is 52. If you are really planning on developing young players who can relate to their coach and don't expect to be a yearly contender to actually win a Cup until 3-5 years from now....If you think you are going to go on a 10 year run of greatness, Babcock will be 67 at the end of it. I'm the last guy to dismiss age, but when you throw realistic expectations on top of player skillset and personality, and relative accomplishments between the two..........................

Well Byslma's success wasn't what gave him such low draft picks, the Pens GM trading them away did. What average draft pick would he have received if he had a first? What average draft pick did Babcock receive from all his success. And, how did Byslma fair in cultivating those picks opposed to Babcock in grooming his? 

 

That's why I listed the median. The trade gets tossed.

 

Wouldn't Bylsma have a worst #1 draft pick by definition because he has a better playoff series record than Babcock?

[TrueBlueGED]

Bylsma sucks because he's part of the reason team USA screwed the pooch at the Olympics. There, I said it!

 

Seriously though, I'm not responding to that wall of text on my phone. Will get to it when I'm home on my desktop.

[dudacek]

:)

 

In all honesty.....like I have said, Babcock is a better version of Lindy, and 99% of what we have heard the past 2 weeks is about him and nobody else.

 

?

Well you've certainly tipped that balance.

[SwampD]

I like this thread. Not sure I'm sold on Bylsma just yet, but I like this thread.

 

 

The name Disco Dan I pretty solid, though.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Well Byslma's success wasn't what gave him such low draft picks, the Pens GM trading them away did. What average draft pick would he have received if he had a first? What average draft pick did Babcock receive from all his success. And, how did Byslma fair in cultivating those picks opposed to Babcock in grooming his? 

 

Head to Head

 

'08  Bylsma  Wins Stanley Cup  40 points in 25 regular season games            Babcock Loses Stanley Cup  112 points in 82 games     Bylsma +1

 

'09  Bylsma  Loses in conference semis  101 points      Babcock  loses in conference semis  102 points   Babcock +1

 

'10  Bylsma  Loses in conference quarters  106 points   Babcock loses in conference semis  104 points   Babcock +4

 

'11  Bylsma loses in conference quarters  108 points     Babcock loses in conference quarters  102 points  Bylsma +1

 

'12  Bylsma loses in conference finals   72 points   Babcock loses in conference semis 56 points  Bylsma +5

 

'13 Bylsma loses in conference semis  109 points   Babcock loses in conference quarters  93 points  Bylsma +6 

 

 

Bylsma outfinished Babcock 4 out of 6 years in the playoffs in regard to draft pick positioning for a little more than 1 pick worse.

 

Blysma outfinished Babcock in playoff performance 3-2-1

 

Blysma outfinished Babcock in the regular season 5 out of 6 times

 

 

 

 

I thank everyone for continuing to bring up valid points of concern. I will do my best to look into them.

[LastPommerFan]

Stu's Brother?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Well you've certainly tipped that balance.

 

Under previous request from our fearless leader SDS to start more specific threads instead of taking others off topic or mixing generalities, I felt it was worth starting this thread.

 

If anyone wants to breakdown any of the other potential coaching candidates, I would LOVE to see them in other threads. I don't know much about a guy like DeBoer, but X likes him and Murray likes him so I would be interested to see if anyone could make a case.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

A few side notes....

 

The last youtube in the OP may not be clear. This was Bylsma's first year right before the playoffs. He challenged Crosby to a shootout contest and the loser had to fix and hand out Gatorade to everyone. There is other video of this and Bylsma won, be it 100% on the up and up, or not. The point being, either the head coach or the trumpeted greatest player of a generation would end up being humbled to the point of serving the whole team. I'm sure there are plenty of shennanigans every team does, but that's some pretty good stuff considering who was involved.

 

On Babcock......I have done some research as well. In EVERY article or video I have seen, he says the exact same thing. "Maximize Potential".

 

What does "Maximize Potential" mean? Does it mean try as hard as you can? Does it mean be as efficient as you can? What really is someone's potential?

 

 

People like to say Terry Pegula is obviously a great buisnessman because he has $4 billion. Terry himself says at a certain point he was broke and had to borrow money from his family to start his own business while in his 30's. "If I ever have more than 2 nickles to rub together, I'll buy the Buffalo Sabres".

 

 At that point in time had Pegula maximized his potential? How many people would say the most efficient move and having maximized your potential would be to have to borrow $7,500 from the people closest to you in order to take a flyer on starting a company when you are broke? Wouldn't the efficient thing to do be to keep at your regular job, work hard and do what you are told, and slowly build year after year?

 

Pegula didn't do that. He didn't think safe and efficient.....he thought big, and it worked. Is Tim Murray maximizing every trade to make sure he is the sure winner, or does he look at the big prize? Is Rex Ryan safe and efficient? Has he maximized his potential? Or do we not know yet? 

 

Look at the players on the Sabres right now. What is, "maximizing their potential", and how do you let them do it? Do they seem like the type that would work their way through middle management for 20 years and be "efficient"? Or would they say "F' It !!!", and take a shot? I've got pictures of a guy with bricks of Benjamins on a Vegas tower, A 6' 5" 230lb defenseman on the beach with his hot girlfriend when he should have been at practice, a Latvian center that could be the feature at Club Marcella, and a teenage generational player chugging beer for the camera.

 

I have all the respect in the world for conservative hard work and efficiency. In fact, that's the best course of action many times, and for most people.

 

I'm just sick of putting the quarter in the slot in the back room of a Times Square newstand year after year....just to watch the metal door go up and down...or to settle for the soccer mom.

 

 

 

 

 

It's time to take that good hearted crazy broad out for martinis and lobster and do this thing for real. You may end up crushed at the end, but you will never regret taking the chance... or the ride......

[...]

Well, I think it's safe to say that so far, all of the "zero f#$ks given" moves by Murray have felt really good.  I can dig the argument to continue down that path since, again ...so far... it feels right.

[Thorny]

A few side notes....

 

The last youtube in the OP may not be clear. This was Bylsma's first year right before the playoffs. He challenged Crosby to a shootout contest and the loser had to fix and hand out Gatorade to everyone. There is other video of this and Bylsma won, be it 100% on the up and up, or not. The point being, either the head coach or the trumpeted greatest player of a generation would end up being humbled to the point of serving the whole team. I'm sure there are plenty of shennanigans every team does, but that's some pretty good stuff considering who was involved.

 

On Babcock......I have done some research as well. In EVERY article or video I have seen, he says the exact same thing. "Maximize Potential".

 

What does "Maximize Potential" mean? Does it mean try as hard as you can? Does it mean be as efficient as you can? What really is someone's potential?

 

 

People like to say Terry Pegula is obviously a great buisnessman because he has $4 billion. Terry himself says at a certain point he was broke and had to borrow money from his family to start his own business while in his 30's. "If I ever have more than 2 nickles to rub together, I'll buy the Buffalo Sabres".

 

 At that point in time had Pegula maximized his potential? How many people would say the most efficient move and having maximized your potential would be to have to borrow $7,500 from the people closest to you in order to take a flyer on starting a company when you are broke? Wouldn't the efficient thing to do be to keep at your regular job, work hard and do what you are told, and slowly build year after year?

 

Pegula didn't do that. He didn't think safe and efficient.....he thought big, and it worked. Is Tim Murray maximizing every trade to make sure he is the sure winner, or does he look at the big prize? Is Rex Ryan safe and efficient? Has he maximized his potential? Or do we not know yet? 

 

Look at the players on the Sabres right now. What is, "maximizing their potential", and how do you let them do it? Do they seem like the type that would work their way through middle management for 20 years and be "efficient"? Or would they say "F' It !!!", and take a shot? I've got pictures of a guy with bricks of Benjamins on a Vegas tower, A 6' 5" 230lb defenseman on the beach with his hot girlfriend when he should have been at practice, a Latvian center that could be the feature at Club Marcella, and a teenage generational player chugging beer for the camera.

 

I have all the respect in the world for conservative hard work and efficiency. In fact, that's the best course of action many times, and for most people.

 

I'm just sick of putting the quarter in the slot in the back room of a Times Square newstand year after year....just to watch the metal door go up and down...or to settle for the soccer mom.

 

 

 

 

 

It's time to take that good hearted crazy broad out for martinis and lobster and do this thing for real. You may end up crushed at the end, but you will never regret taking the chance... or the ride......

 

This is a great post. All you have had to say in this thread has been very intriguing. I said before that I would be fine with Disco Dan as the chosen coach, and reading these posts just makes me more fine with it. I don't know that he's a better choice than Babcock, but the fact that a solid argument can be made for Bylsma being potentially the better fit is a statement by itself.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Thorny

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This is a great post. All you have had to say in this thread has been very intriguing. I said before that I would be fine with Disco Dan as the chosen coach, and reading these posts just makes me more fine with it. I don't know that he's a better choice than Babcock, but the fact that a solid argument can be made for Bylsma being potentially the better fit is a statement by itself.

 

Thank you.

 

I am the first to admit I know 10x as much about the Sabres, their history, and their actions compared to other teams and their people. I think the majority of us for the most part have opinions outside Buffalo, but it is hard to really know the league like we do the team we regularly follow.

 

I truly think Bylsma is the guy to win you Stanley Cups. He would fit in here great, but really anywhere he will probably have success that gives you silverware.

 

 

Maybe this interview will peak TrueBlue's interest in Bylsma. Here is a quote:

 

"There are some analytic aspects of the game that I'm looking at and delving into what the numbers mean, what the analytics mean," Bylsma said. "There are certain aspects of how some teams play that I want to dissect and breakdown."

 

He probably won't like what he reads after that...nor will the fancystat fellas........ but it is here....from a guy who played, and coaches at the highest level.

 

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=738574

[X. Benedict]

Good discussion. 

 

Just my opinion. I think Bylsma is not a coach that you hire to construct a team. He is the type of coach you hire when you don't want a coach to get in the way of an already good team. I think some team will hire Bylsma this year. 

 

Generally what I've like about him in the past is the open offense. 

 

Generally what I've disliked about him in the past are his defensive schemes (especially with a lead)  and his line changes and dislike of adjusting his lines according to  situation . . 

 

Not a bad coach by any means, and really my bias shows here, I don't think Bylsma wins that first cup unless he inherits an already disciplined team, though one that had gone stale, from Therrien. He was the perfect coach for Shero at the time - who knows, they might reunite in NJ. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by X. Benedict

[nfreeman]

One important item here is that Wojo from "Barney Miller" was on "Mad Men" this week.