ubkev Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I was SO pissed off at that. Ump should have called ball 3 and moved forward with the at-bat. I loved it. Just like I loved Ben Davis bunting to break up Schilling's perfect game back in 2001. I hate watching 2 guys play catch for 3 hours. Do everything you can to f*** the pitcher. 12 perfect games in my lifetime. I don't think it's exciting at all. On the flip side, there have only been 6 players to hit 4 home runs in a game in my lifetime. Now that is a feat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I loved it. Just like I loved Ben Davis bunting to break up Schilling's perfect game back in 2001. I hate watching 2 guys play catch for 3 hours. Do everything you can to f*** the pitcher. 12 perfect games in my lifetime. I don't think it's exciting at all. On the flip side, there have only been 6 players to hit 4 home runs in a game in my lifetime. Now that is a feat! Yea, a no-hitter with a hit by pitch is totally more exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yea, a no-hitter with a hit by pitch is totally more exciting. It was for me. That's the beauty of sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 It was for me. That's the beauty of sports. So watching two dudes play catch with one elbow in the way is more exciting than the pursuit of perfection and the nervousness of the whole performance? Strange. It's a 162 game season for 30 teams. If a couple perfect games get sprinkled in there then awesome. Getting away with an illegal move to ruin a chase for history is lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Leaning in is part of the game, it always has been. And all they crying that it has caused it 10x more fun to me than the 6th perfect game since 2010. The HBP wasn't some grave injustice. It wasn't Jim Joyce jobbing that kid in Detroit. He threw a close pitch and the batter took full advantage of it, just like he should have. You don't get a gift just because you've retired 26 in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 In unrelated news! Gary Player is awesome! He totally ripped Chambers Bay and the USGA yesterday for this disgrace of a golf course. This is the ugliest course I've ever seen for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of American golf. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/gary-player-eviscerates-us-open-course-chambers-bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 In unrelated news! Gary Player is awesome! He totally ripped Chambers Bay and the USGA yesterday for this disgrace of a golf course. This is the ugliest course I've ever seen for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of American golf. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/gary-player-eviscerates-us-open-course-chambers-bay I listened to that interview, to Curtis Strange, and to Lee Trevino today. Oh did they rip the USGA a new one. Trevino said that Chambers Bay made the municipal course he grew up on seem like Augusta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I listened to that interview, to Curtis Strange, and to Lee Trevino today. Oh did they rip the USGA a new one. Trevino said that Chambers Bay made the municipal course he grew up on seem like Augusta. Hahaha. The course is just so damn ugly! Difficult is good. Oakmont is damn near impossible to play, but it's beautiful. Chambers Bay, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Outside the Lines just obtained documents that prove Pete Rose bet on baseball while still playing for the Reds... . I still think he should be in the Hall of Fame, but I think this closes the door on that due to timing. Things were looking up for him after he got the job at FS1 (doubt he keeps that now) and the new commish said he wanted to meet with him while considering lifting his lifetime ban. But then again these documents were found by investigators back in '89 so there's a good chance the MLB already knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Outside the Lines just obtained documents that prove Pete Rose bet on baseball while still playing for the Reds... ######. I still think he should be in the Hall of Fame, but I think this closes the door on that due to timing. Things were looking up for him after he got the job at FS1 (doubt he keeps that now) and the new commish said he wanted to meet with him while considering lifting his lifetime ban. But then again these documents were found by investigators back in '89 so there's a good chance the MLB already knew. The Dowd report concluded that Rose bet on Reds games in 1985, while he still was playing. http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/dowd/dowd_ii.html Had Rose claimed that he didn't bet on baseball while merely a player, as opposed to as a player-manager (which he was in 1985)? Edited June 22, 2015 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 The Dowd report concluded that Rose bet on Reds games in 1985, while he still was playing. http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/dowd/dowd_ii.html Had Rose claimed that he didn't bet on baseball while merely a player, as opposed to as a player-manager (which he was in 1985)? Rose has always held that he only bet as a manager, never as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Rose has always held that he only bet as a manager, never as a player. I know--was he making the distinction between "player" and "player-manager"? Because, if not, he's been refuting the Dowd Report all along on that point (just as he refuted it, generally, until about a decade ago). By the way, if you go to this page http://www.seanlahman.com/baseball-archive/pete-rose/dowd-report/, you get not only the report, but all sorts of awesome backup documents. Edited June 22, 2015 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know--was he making the distinction between "player" and "player-manager"? Because, if not, he's been refuting the Dowd Report all along on that point (just as he refuted it, generally, until about a decade ago). By the way, if you go to this page http://www.seanlahman.com/baseball-archive/pete-rose/dowd-report/, you get not only the report, but all sorts of awesome backup documents. So the Dowd report had previously stated that he bet as a player and Rose always just denied it? I'm not 100% familiar with the situation. I just know that he had admitted to doing so as a manager only. This OTL finding is just documents that were used in the Dowd report. So they are just putting documents about his gambling as a player out to the public to turn the proof from the Dowd report to undoubted public knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I still don't get why Rose betting on hard ball is even an issue. It's not like he was beating his wife or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) So the Dowd report had previously stated that he bet as a player and Rose always just denied it? I'm not 100% familiar with the situation. I just know that he had admitted to doing so as a manager only. This OTL finding is just documents that were used in the Dowd report. So they are just putting documents about his gambling as a player out to the public to turn the proof from the Dowd report to undoubted public knowledge? Dowd didn't have access to these documents: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13114874/notebook-obtained-lines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986 Until 2004 (give or take a year or two), Rose contended that he NEVER bet on baseball at all. Then he "came clean" and said he bet, but only as a manager, and never against the Reds. But there's still a problem if he bet on his team winning while he was managing it... I still don't get why Rose betting on hard ball is even an issue. It's not like he was beating his wife or something. ...ok, let's say he had money on the Reds. Let's say he leaves a pitcher in too long too many times and the guy's career ends earlier than it would have otherwise. It's kind of an issue, you know? Add it to the fact that baseball has been EXTREMELY sensitive to gambling since at least 1919, and there's a big problem. I have no horse in this race, btw. I don't care whether he is reinstated or goes into the Hall of Fame. One way or the other; it makes no difference to me. He sure was a hell of a hitter to watch when I was growing up, though. Edited June 22, 2015 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Dowd didn't have access to these documents: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13114874/notebook-obtained-lines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986 Until 2004 (give or take a year or two), Rose contended that he NEVER bet on baseball at all. Then he "came clean" and said he bet, but only as a manager, and never against the Reds. But there's still a problem if he bet on his team winning while he was managing it... ...ok, let's say he had money on the Reds. Let's say he leaves a pitcher in too long too many times and the guy's career ends earlier than it would have otherwise. It's kind of an issue, you know? Add it to the fact that baseball has been EXTREMELY sensitive to gambling since at least 1919, and there's a big problem. I have no horse in this race, btw. I don't care whether he is reinstated or goes into the Hall of Fame. One way or the other; it makes no difference to me. He sure was a hell of a hitter to watch when I was growing up, though. Generally expanding on the last point. If he bets on some games to win, but not all of them; he will necessarily try harder to win the ones he's got money on. He may rest a player in a game he doesn't have money on to keep him fresh for a future game. It comes back to "integrity of the game." Honestly, I consider betting on his team as the manager a far more egregious action than doing so as a player. As a fielder, provided he isn't betting against his team, his variance in effort levels would likely have minimal effect on the game by game results. FAR less than his going 'all in' to win would as a manager, IMHO. Edited June 22, 2015 by Taro T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I guess I just kind of assume there's a lot of this going on and who really cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Wasn't there a lot of talk that a good chunk of his bets weren't on outcomes but on certain scenarios throughout each game? Things like runs scored before a certain inning, number of hits or strikeouts a certain player has, etc? I think what Rose did is pretty deplorable but I think he, along with steroid users who are statistically great, should be in the hall of fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Rose chose to break a rule he knew could get him banned if caught. Well, he got caught. He should be kept out for stupidity if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Rose chose to break a rule he knew could get him banned if caught. Well, he got caught. He should be kept out for stupidity if nothing else. Asking because I honestly don't know: are there others that have been banned from the Hall of Fame due to betting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Asking because I honestly don't know: are there others that have been banned from the Hall of Fame due to betting? Shoeless Joe and the rest of his Black Sox were banned from the game entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Shoeless Joe and the rest of his Black Sox were banned from the game entirely. I know of that scandal and they're ban. I was thinking more of individuals who were caught. Also, wasn't there an account recently where a family member of a Chicago Cub from before the Black Sox scandal said that the Black Sox were taught how to throw a World Series after the Cubs did it the year before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know of that scandal and they're ban. I was thinking more of individuals who were caught. Also, wasn't there an account recently where a family member of a Chicago Cub from before the Black Sox scandal said that the Black Sox were taught how to throw a World Series after the Cubs did it the year before? Who else was caught? I'm honestly not a big enough baseball fan to know. If someone was caught they should be banned. If some were caught and weren't banned, my guess is nobody cares because there not HoF players so a ban is sort of irrelevant anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Asking because I honestly don't know: are there others that have been banned from the Hall of Fame due to betting? Here's the wiki for the Black Sox Scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson is the only other player who would likely be in the hall if not for allegedly betting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Well, d4rk, you wanted to discuss domestic violence in baseball? Here's your chance. Very sad. http://news.yahoo.com/ex-mlb-player-darryl-hamilton-dies-apparent-murder-164206317--mlb.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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