Who's left? Centers et al.

[streetcarp77]

so your a prefix and im a suffix. plenty of room to co-exist

[thesportsbuff]

:doh:

 

Quick, somebody put Shrader on suicide watch.

 

gets me every time :lol: :lol:

[shrader]

:doh:

 

Quick, somebody put Shrader on suicide watch.

 

I'm at the start of a good vacation, so there's no need for suicide watch. I think I'll actually handle this one civilly for once.

 

Listen up all you newbies around here who haven't seen this repeated over and over on this board. Gerbe is not a center and has not been a center at any point in his adult life. He was on wing during his entire time in Portland. He was a wing for his entire BC career. He was a wing before that when he was playing with the US developmental program. If he played center at any point, he hasn't done so since he was at most 13 years old. It's not going to happen so please stop suggesting it.

[Buffalo Sports Man]

I don't know you, your leads, if you're delusion or total BS. However if I'm reading this trade after it happens, I'm pissed. Just horrible.

 

 

Roy 09-10 (because of Roys injury last year): 26/43/69, 50.4% FO

 

 

Spezza 08-09 (as Spezza hasn't played 82 games in 2 years): 32/41/73, 53.3%

 

 

Wouldn't throw in anything, including players or draft picks. No thanks.

Roy, Kassian and a first is too much, I agree.

 

But, Spezza for his career is a point a game player, which Derek Roy isn't. Spezza is point a game in the playoffs, again, Roy isn't. And not that it REALLY matters, but Spezza's a month and a half younger than Roy. I'm not anti-Roy, nor am I pro-Spezza. But if I was told that Roy, Weber/Sekera and say a 4th were gone to get Spezza, I wouldn't be upset.

[deluca67]

so your a prefix and im a suffix. plenty of room to co-exist

Lets keep religions out of this. :rolleyes:

 

As for the topic.

 

It doesn't make sense to trade the only center you have for another center even if it could be considered an upgrade. The Sabres need to find a way add a center by using some of their other assets.

 

Another consideration is that the deal proposed in the initial post would add another $3 mil this year and next. Which the Sabres just can not afford unless they move one of the bigger contracts out. That would leave the Sabres only $16 mil next season with only 11 players under contract. Even if the Cap goes up it may not go up enough to really help.

[Weave]

Vanek Leino Pominville

Ennis Roy Stafford

Hecht Gerbe Boyes

McCormick Goose Kaleta

 

Gerbe's not a center. Never was. More likely Hecht and Gerbe will be swapped. I would imagine that Pominville will be on Hecht's line as they have some chemistry.

[Lanny]

As of this moment, the Depth Chart at Center is likely;

 

Leino-Roy-Gaustad-McCormack

 

Mind you, Roy has just as much a claim to number one, as Lindy doesn't have a top line. :-/

I think Hecht plays center as currently constituted, Roy-Leino-Hecht-Gaustad

 

I also think the Sabres have $1M available to sign a vet 3rd line center & move Hecht to wing. Drury? And if Leino doesn't work out at center he can always move to LW and Hecht as a serviceable center.

[Weave]

There was a counter trade proposal from Ottawa (countering our trade deadline offer) a few weeks ago that was going to send Roy, Kassian and our 1st to Ottawa for Jason Spezza. We rejected the deal.

 

I suspect this rumor you heard was BS. Roy, Kassian, and a 1st was rumored to be OTT's demand back at the deadline too. I have my doubts that the demand a couple weeks ago was identical.

 

And I doubt Spezza is on the market at all since Fischer got dealt to Nashville.

 

And finally, Spezza for Roy is more or less an even up trade. I see no benefit to us for a move that swaps Roy for Spezza. Especially if it means we have to give up more to make it happen.

 

Now, if you want to talk about adding Spezza on top of Roy for our top 2 centers we might be on to something beneficial.

[nfreeman]

I mentioned Arnott earlier. He made $4.5 last season. I would expect you could get him for less, at least before the Connolly contract :doh:

I think Arnott is at the end of the line. He had less in the tank last year than Niedermayer did.

 

Druuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

1 yr 1.5 mil? done.

If he rehabs his knee and can pass a thorough physical, I'm in for a Drury reprise. Same goes for Grier, although I doubt the Sabres would bring both of them back.

[carpandean]

so your a prefix and im a suffix. plenty of room to co-exist

Just remember who's first. :thumbsup:

[Buffalo Sports Man]

Lets keep religions out of this. :rolleyes:

 

As for the topic.

 

It doesn't make sense to trade the only center you have for another center even if it could be considered an upgrade. The Sabres need to find a way add a center by using some of their other assets.

 

Another consideration is that the deal proposed in the initial post would add another $3 mil this year and next. Which the Sabres just can not afford unless they move one of the bigger contracts out. That would leave the Sabres only $16 mil next season with only 11 players under contract. Even if the Cap goes up it may not go up enough to really help.

Agreed. While other assets would have to go for fiduciary reasons, we've four young/prospect wingers (Gerbe, Ennis, Kassian and Foligno) and a prospect in goal. They're riches. And I know that parting with ANY of them makes people cringe, but that's how you make trades in the NHL and Major League Baseball; you exchange promise for skill. You don't destroy your farm system to do it, but you make willing sacrifices to better your team.

[nfreeman]

Coincidentally I was listening to Bucky Gleason on the Shredd/Ragan podcast from a few days ago in the car today, and he was talking about this exact potential trade. He said that the Sabres offered Roy and Kassian for Spezza this past February at the deadline and Ottawa turned it down. There was no mention of a #1 pick.

 

For the record, Spezza is twice as good as Roy. The difference in their playoff production says it all. I would add a #1 to the offer to get Spezza in a heartbeat, and I would also swap out Kassian for Sekera in a heartbeat.

[X. Benedict]

Lets keep religions out of this. :rolleyes:

 

As for the topic.

It doesn't make sense to trade the only center you have for another center even if it could be considered an upgrade. The Sabres need to find a way add a center by using some of their other assets.

 

Another consideration is that the deal proposed in the initial post would add another $3 mil this year and next. Which the Sabres just can not afford unless they move one of the bigger contracts out. That would leave the Sabres only $16 mil next season with only 11 players under contract. Even if the Cap goes up it may not go up enough to really help.

 

Centers are so thin right now that if you can make that deal, you do. Even if it doesn't improve your depth. You've improved your club and at least haven't lost depth.

[Buffalo Sports Man]

Coincidentally I was listening to Bucky Gleason on the Shredd/Ragan podcast from a few days ago in the car today, and he was talking about this exact potential trade. He said that the Sabres offered Roy and Kassian for Spezza this past February at the deadline and Ottawa turned it down. There was no mention of a #1 pick.

 

For the record, Spezza is twice as good as Roy. The difference in their playoff production says it all. I would add a #1 to the offer to get Spezza in a heartbeat, and I would also swap out Kassian for Sekera in a heartbeat.

I hesitate to go quite as far as saying Spezza is twice the player that Roy is. A part of me is still concerned over his missing a quarter of each of the last two seasons and the fact that his numbers dipped without his running mates. I certainly think that he is BETTER than Roy, but not twice as good.

 

All that being said, I'd much rather have both than send Roy there in a possible trade.

[Buffalo Sports Man]

I think Hecht plays center as currently constituted, Roy-Leino-Hecht-Gaustad

 

I also think the Sabres have $1M available to sign a vet 3rd line center & move Hecht to wing. Drury? And if Leino doesn't work out at center he can always move to LW and Hecht as a serviceable center.

Assuming that Enroth/Sekera/Weber/Gragnani come in at a million each, and assuming Kotalik and Morrisonn both are sent to Rochester, you're already into the call up/trade buffer at just about 3 mil. And I am not sure that those four guys don't come in at 5 mil instead of four. Two million in cap space isn't enough room to do anything.

 

Edit: And yes, I do in fact prefer to have Hecht there, especially given his CORSI and Quality Time numbers.

[nfreeman]

I hesitate to go quite as far as saying Spezza is twice the player that Roy is. A part of me is still concerned over his missing a quarter of each of the last two seasons and the fact that his numbers dipped without his running mates. I certainly think that he is BETTER than Roy, but not twice as good.

 

All that being said, I'd much rather have both than send Roy there in a possible trade.

Twice as good was probably an exaggeration. I know I want him on my team twice as much as I want Roy -- does that count?

 

I agree that I'd prefer to have both than just Roy, although last year's results scream out "addition by subtraction."

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

what other type of carp is there?

magicarp.

 

but those are useless until level 15

[Bullwinkle]

Coincidentally I was listening to Bucky Gleason on the Shredd/Ragan podcast from a few days ago in the car today, and he was talking about this exact potential trade. He said that the Sabres offered Roy and Kassian for Spezza this past February at the deadline and Ottawa turned it down. There was no mention of a #1 pick.

 

For the record, Spezza is twice as good as Roy. The difference in their playoff production says it all. I would add a #1 to the offer to get Spezza in a heartbeat, and I would also swap out Kassian for Sekera in a heartbeat.

 

This is absolutely not true. TWICE as good? No way. Roy was a point a game before the injury, and has obviously improved his play over the previous season. Spezza's best years were from 2005-2008. He's fallen off that pace since then. If Spezza's wings are hurting (read Alfredsson), his production tanks. On top of all that, Roy is more durable than Spezza and therefore plays more games. Plus Roy is more willing to get into a scrum, where Spezza seems to float above the fray - my personal observations.

 

Roy has perhaps not reached his full potential as yet - I say this because of his improvement last season. Spezza has shown no signs that he can put it into higher gear since 2008.

 

AND you don't trade your best center for another center if you want to improve the team in total. As has been mentioned, you trade your superfluous players, ones you can replace. In our case that amounts to our wingers and our defense.

 

Having said all that, if we could get Spezza without sacrificing Roy, we would improve our team. Which would be nr. 1? I'm not sure. But I would be hunting bigger game if I were Darcy, along the lines of Thornton or Lecavalier (NOT Stastny).

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

I'm at the start of a good vacation, so there's no need for suicide watch. I think I'll actually handle this one civilly for once.

 

Listen up all you newbies around here who haven't seen this repeated over and over on this board. Gerbe is not a center and has not been a center at any point in his adult life. He was on wing during his entire time in Portland. He was a wing for his entire BC career. He was a wing before that when he was playing with the US developmental program. If he played center at any point, he hasn't done so since he was at most 13 years old. It's not going to happen so please stop suggesting it.

For some reason, i read that in Dr. Cox's voice from scrubs.

[X. Benedict]

This is absolutely not true. TWICE as good? No way. Roy was a point a game before the injury, and has obviously improved his play over the previous season. Spezza's best years were from 2005-2008. He's fallen off that pace since then. If Spezza's wings are hurting (read Alfredsson), his production tanks. On top of all that, Roy is more durable than Spezza and therefore plays more games. Plus Roy is more willing to get into a scrum, where Spezza seems to float above the fray - my personal observations.

 

Roy has perhaps not reached his full potential as yet - I say this because of his improvement last season. Spezza has shown no signs that he can put it into higher gear since 2008.

 

AND you don't trade your best center for another center if you want to improve the team in total. As has been mentioned, you trade your superfluous players, ones you can replace. In our case that amounts to our wingers and our defense.

 

Having said all that, if we could get Spezza without sacrificing Roy, we would improve our team. Which would be nr. 1? I'm not sure. But I would be hunting bigger game if I were Darcy, along the lines of Thornton or Lecavalier (NOT Stastny).

Better is relative.

 

Spezza is insanely talented....if he didn't have a brain the size of a walnut, he might be one of the best ever.

 

Roy is very talented, and annoyingly persistent, and gets nearly the most out of what he's got in terms of physical ability and size.

 

Having said that....Spezza has so much talent I get angry watching him, and I hate Ottawa. He could dominate every game he's in. He reminds me of Nuke Laloosh from the movie Bull Durham. He's that good, and he's that stupid.

 

I'm pretty sure there are times when coaches tell Spezza....don't think, just play. He can't think his way through a game, but he sure can play.

[FogBat]

Better is relative.

 

Spezza is insanely talented....if he didn't have a brain the size of a walnut, he might be one of the best ever.

 

Roy is very talented, and annoyingly persistent, and gets nearly the most out of what he's got in terms of physical ability and size.

 

Having said that....Spezza has so much talent I get angry watching him, and I hate Ottawa. He could dominate every game he's in. He reminds me of Nuke Laloosh from the movie Bull Durham. He's that good, and he's that stupid.

 

I'm pretty sure there are times when coaches tell Spezza....don't think, just play. He can't think his way through a game, but he sure can play.

Seems like you've given this plenty of thought. :)

[Buffalo Sports Man]

Twice as good was probably an exaggeration. I know I want him on my team twice as much as I want Roy -- does that count?

 

I agree that I'd prefer to have both than just Roy, although last year's results scream out "addition by subtraction."

I hate that argument. Not that it isn't legitimate, but it's the argument I've heard from Schopp and the Bulldog every time Roy comes up on the show (that and the partying issue that they allude to but won't flat out say). The guy was heads and tails running away with the team lead in points and had ridiculous chemistry with Stafford throughout and (at times) with Ennis (The former chemistry helped keep me undefeated in Fantasy Hockey until Roy's injury).

 

I am not going to say that it was coincidence, because that certainly isn't true. I would, however, suggest that having your best player (to that point in that season) go down like that can be a rallying point to your team. I hesitate to say it's the same thing, but look at Pittsburgh. They lost the best player in the league, and then the third/fourth best player in the league. And they rallied. They rallied hard and almost chased down Philly. I'm not saying Roy is Crosby by any stretch, but at the beginning of the year, it was like Roy and Stafford took all the knocks against them and made them fuel; Hamilton spoke about how much fire they came into camp with and how much more dedicated they seemed. They showed it.

 

Then Roy got hurt.

 

The team lost more, came together and rallied. In the midst of that rally, Mr. Pegula bought the team. The "Pegula Factor" added fuel to the fire. I refuse to blame Roy for the team rallying around his injury. I'm not going to blame him for Myers slumping early, the young defense not gelling with the losses of Lydman and Tallinder (and the addition of Leopold and Morrisonn) and Rivet's decline. Vanek's emergence as a leader, while necessitated by Roy's injury is not because of Roy's injury. It's because the team needed his leadership and it was a part of his makeup.

 

 

Centers are so thin right now that if you can make that deal, you do. Even if it doesn't improve your depth. You've improved your club and at least haven't lost depth.

Disagree. If it's straight up, sure, Spezza is a better player and he may improve the team, or at least the line. But there is a not-zero-percent chance that removing one of the guys and then dealing with your top two centers being outsiders that can destroy team chemistry. The core of this team (Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Miller, Gaustad and to a lesser extent Stafford) all came up together through the minors. They play for one another, and disrupting that carelessly could ruin all the work of them rallying last year (in a way that adding a talented player on top might not).

[Buffalo Sports Man]

Having said all that, if we could get Spezza without sacrificing Roy, we would improve our team. Which would be nr. 1? I'm not sure. But I would be hunting bigger game if I were Darcy, along the lines of Thornton or Lecavalier (NOT Stastny).

 

Lecavalier may certainly be 'get-able' with the Stamkos debacle in Tampa. Thornton less so (because I think the Playoff issue is off his back) and they seem to have a straight solidly built team that's still geared up to go forward. Last year, maybe, but not this year.

 

My only concern about Lecavalier is that it's a huge cap (7.7 Mil and change) hit for nine more years, including 58.5 in real money for the next six years (which is way less an issue for the Pegulaville Sabres), that will keep him on this team until he is forty.

[Bullwinkle]

Lecavalier may certainly be 'get-able' with the Stamkos debacle in Tampa. Thornton less so (because I think the Playoff issue is off his back) and they seem to have a straight solidly built team that's still geared up to go forward. Last year, maybe, but not this year.

 

My only concern about Lecavalier is that it's a huge cap (7.7 Mil and change) hit for nine more years, including 58.5 in real money for the next six years (which is way less an issue for the Pegulaville Sabres), that will keep him on this team until he is forty.

 

I didn't look up the cap hit, but you are right. I think we're going to have to emulate Boston - no superstar centers, but a good effective team as a whole.

[Buffalo Sports Man]

For some reason, i read that in Dr. Cox's voice from scrubs.

Quoted for Truth.

 

I blame EA Sports NHL games. I still think of him being in the center column despite never EEEEEEEEEEEVER using him there.

 

And yes, I do hope that we add someone coming up; I even think the talk of Leino playing center may be a smoke screen so that we aren't bitten like we were trying to get rid of Max.