LastPommerFan Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Ok, I haven't paid much attention to Carolina recently, but isn't Cole a wing? You are correct. This is what happens when I make a decision to go outside of my rigerous data gathering method. Please ignore EriK Cole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Also of note, if Derek Roy doesn't get hurt and plays the rest of the season with 25% less production than the first 35 games, he finishes 13th on this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yes, you can get a good goaltender for less than that, but the problem with this line of thinking is that it's a gamble. You might get a Niemi. You might get a Neuvirth. With Miller you know you get a good (to great) goalie and I think that that is worth paying for. Player GP GS Sv Sv% W L OT GA GAA SA SO TOI Miller 7 7 222 .917 3 4 0 20 2.93 242 2 409:42 Neuvirth 9 9 238 .912 4 5 0 23 2.34 261 1 589:56 10-11 Playoffs series won: Miller 0 Neuvirth 1 I would have swapped Miller for Neuvirth and a $4mil center or dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Player GP GS Sv Sv% W L OT GA GAA SA SO TOI Miller 7 7 222 .917 3 4 0 20 2.93 242 2 409:42 Neuvirth 9 9 238 .912 4 5 0 23 2.34 261 1 589:56 10-11 Playoffs series won: Miller 0 Neuvirth 1 I would have swapped Miller for Neuvirth and a $4mil center or dman. #missingthepointentirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Player GP GS Sv Sv% W L OT GA GAA SA SO TOI Miller 7 7 222 .917 3 4 0 20 2.93 242 2 409:42 Neuvirth 9 9 238 .912 4 5 0 23 2.34 261 1 589:56 10-11 Playoffs series won: Miller 0 Neuvirth 1 I would have swapped Miller for Neuvirth and a $4mil center or dman. As we've seen with our Stafford argument, $4M doesn't get you much anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 #1 Centers.pdf Well, I'd make a play for Brad Richards but it seems like a done deal for him & the NYR. If that doesnt pan out, I'd take a run at Stasny & Spezza. It would take an awful lot to get either guy but the Sabres desperately need to upgrade down the middle and giving up some potential is what it's going to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 As we've seen with our Stafford argument, $4M doesn't get you much anymore I was thinking a 2nd to 3rd line vet....at center. A 2nd pairing guy on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 So.... Who do you get, and how do you get him? #1 Centers.pdf I think Stasny could be available. Mike Richards too. It'll be interesting to see if SJ is open to the idea of moving a center if Van shuts them down tomorrow night. I don't know what we have that SJ may want though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I think Stasny could be available. Mike Richards too. It'll be interesting to see if SJ is open to the idea of moving a center if Van shuts them down tomorrow night. I don't know what we have that SJ may want though. With couture coming on quick and a lot of their secondary scoring and D up for RFA/UFA, they may be willing to deal Pavelski and move Marleau back to center (he's been playing a lot of wing this playoffs). Pavelski is the only big money player they can move to make room for signing setoguchi, the 3/4th line wingers, and 2-3 D-Men. This is the kind of deal I was talking about earlier. they'd be looking to take on some cheap production. Might be able to make it work with Gerbe/Ennis and Weber/Butler and maybe a 2nd/3rd rnd pick. Think about that, Pavelski is a 2nd/3rd line guy on SJ, and he'd be our solid #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I was thinking a 2nd to 3rd line vet....at center. A 2nd pairing guy on D. Agreed, I'll take Miller over Nueverth and that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I think Stasny could be available. Mike Richards too. It'll be interesting to see if SJ is open to the idea of moving a center if Van shuts them down tomorrow night. I don't know what we have that SJ may want though. griere for pavelski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 griere for pavelski Griere - The mullato bald frenchman who is great on the penalty kill, even better at diving, and has hands of stone, except when playing the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 With couture coming on quick and a lot of their secondary scoring and D up for RFA/UFA, they may be willing to deal Pavelski and move Marleau back to center (he's been playing a lot of wing this playoffs). Pavelski is the only big money player they can move to make room for signing setoguchi, the 3/4th line wingers, and 2-3 D-Men. This is the kind of deal I was talking about earlier. they'd be looking to take on some cheap production. Might be able to make it work with Gerbe/Ennis and Weber/Butler and maybe a 2nd/3rd rnd pick. Think about that, Pavelski is a 2nd/3rd line guy on SJ, and he'd be our solid #1. Ive been arguing Pavelski for months so good luck. Hes what we need but many on here believe SJ will deal Marleu before they deal PAVELLSKI. O well we can just sign drew to 5mil and be screwed for many years to come. (bobby ryan makes 5.1mil and is totally the same as drew.) O well market at value and all..... FML I hope we resign butler to like 10 years 8mil a year cuz hes amazing and thats market value and wooooo pegulas rich wooo spend money send ppl to portland wooo!!!!! :death: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Ive been arguing Pavelski for months so good luck. Hes what we need but many on here believe SJ will deal Marleu before they deal PAVELLSKI. O well we can just sign drew to 5mil and be screwed for many years to come. (bobby ryan makes 5.1mil and is totally the same as drew.) O well market at value and all..... FML I hope we resign butler to like 10 years 8mil a year cuz hes amazing and thats market value and wooooo pegulas rich wooo spend money send ppl to portland wooo!!!!! :death: Step away from the ledge buddy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Ive been arguing Pavelski for months so good luck. Hes what we need but many on here believe SJ will deal Marleu before they deal PAVELLSKI. You do know that believing the latter (or something similar) does not not mean disagreeing with the former. Ask "if we could get Pavelski, would you take him?" and most here would say "yes please!" Stating that the chances that San Jose would deal him, given all the other options that they could consider to move salary, are very small does not change that fact. Doesn't mean that Darcy shouldn't ask, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 You do know that believing the latter (or something similar) does not not mean disagreeing with the former. Ask "if we could get Pavelski, would you take him?" and most here would say "yes please!" Stating that the chances that San Jose would deal him, given all the other options that they could consider to move salary, are very small does not change that fact. Doesn't mean that Darcy shouldn't ask, either. If the cap goes up as much as has been rumored they won't need to move salary and would then just be making moves to shake up a roster that is currently in the Western Conf Finals. I doubt Pavelski would be at the top of their list of players to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 If the cap goes up as much as has been rumored they won't need to move salary and would then just be making moves to shake up a roster that is currently in the Western Conf Finals. I doubt Pavelski would be at the top of their list of players to move. 10 players 11mil to spend if the cap goes to 62... and they have players like couture to sign next year, should be interesting to see what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 10 players 11mil to spend if the cap goes to 62... and they have players like couture to sign next year, should be interesting to see what they do. They need 5 forwards and 1 Dman and $11M to do it with. Perhaps another 1 or 2 players to be their 7th Dman or extra forward if they desire that. Setoguchi is due a raise but how much could he really be worth, he's only scored more than 50 pts once and 30 goals once in his career :). The remaining players could probably all be brought back at around the same price as they paid their bottom 6 this past yr which were all at or under $1M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 As we've seen with our Stafford argument, $4M doesn't get you much anymore Would have gotten 1/4 of that center list (no I'm not saying any specific player on that list - just using that as an example) and maybe at least the same for dmen - someone would have to make that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Would have gotten 1/4 of that center list (no I'm not saying any specific player on that list - just using that as an example) and maybe at least the same for dmen - someone would have to make that list. A whole quarter? None of those players have reached unrestricted free agency for them to be gotten. Two are on their rookie contracts. For comparisons sake Matt Cullen and Matthew Lombardi both signed UFA contracts last offseason for $3.5M each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 What I see, even from posters I often disagree with but whose opinions I respect, (Deluca, PA, Kristian, et al) is a lack of understanding of what is going on with the cap and league wide production. There aren't a plethora of players scoring more then 25 to 30 goals in a year. Stafford and Pominville both finished tied for 77th amongst forwards in points. Pominville has routinely been there while playing the penalty kill and being responsible defensively. Its simple math. There are 30 teams, 90 forwards that make up those top two lines. The cap this year will likely be $62.2 million. $5.3 million will not be that far out of whack for a forward whose production and value to the club puts him in the top 60 forwards. Paying someone $5.3 out of $62.2 million is like paying someone $3.6 out of $39.9 million. As for Stafford, I think he's a different player then he was two years ago. Sports teams pay for potential and if he continues to develop into a 30-35 goal scorer if not more, $4.5 will be a bargain. So, what you are saying is that out of the 90 "top six" forwards in the league there are only 13 worse than Pominville and Stafford? :rolleyes: I think you meant 180 forwards. Seeing this reminds me of the a lot of the Roy and Connolly are top 20 Centers that Status Quo spouted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 If the cap goes up as much as has been rumored they won't need to move salary and would then just be making moves to shake up a roster that is currently in the Western Conf Finals. I doubt Pavelski would be at the top of their list of players to move. When the Cap goes up so does the asking prices. All the Sabres need to do is make the Sharks an offer they can't refuse. Pavelski is a good example of what should be possible in "hockey heaven." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Would have gotten 1/4 of that center list (no I'm not saying any specific player on that list - just using that as an example) and maybe at least the same for dmen - someone would have to make that list. This statement is simply not true, you can not simply turn $4M in cap space into one of the top 30 centermen (unless Roy continues his growth and lands on the list next year). The guys on the list that are under $4M are either RFAs or were locked up before anyone imagined they'd be that good. If this were the case, our $4.5M in timmy connoly savings should free up more than enough room to get us our guy. But to the point you made earlier, what was being argued was not that you can't find a cheaper goalie that will get you to the cup, you can, but the risk is that you end up like philly, detroit, washington, and to some extent tampa now. eventually it could catch up with you and then you have a expensive talented team that loses out because of a mediocre goalie. Philly won a series this year, you want their goalie(s) for miller and $4M in cap space? Finally, since 2006 the league has been trending back to the pre lockout style of play. Look at obstruction calls alone and you can see this. The championship goalies in the 10 years before the lockout the winning cup goalies were: Nikolai Khabibulin Martin Brodeur Dominik Hasek Patrick Roy Martin Brodeur Ed Belfour Chris Osgood Mike Vernon Patrick Roy Martin Brodeur 6 of 10 wins by HALL of FAME goalies. And Ed Belfour and Khabibulin are nothing to sneeze at. If you want the risk, fine, but I'm not willing to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 This statement is simply not true, you can not simply turn $4M in cap space into one of the top 30 centermen (unless Roy continues his growth and lands on the list next year). The guys on the list that are under $4M are either RFAs or were locked up before anyone imagined they'd be that good. If this were the case, our $4.5M in timmy connoly savings should free up more than enough room to get us our guy. But to the point you made earlier, what was being argued was not that you can't find a cheaper goalie that will get you to the cup, you can, but the risk is that you end up like philly, detroit, washington, and to some extent tampa now. eventually it could catch up with you and then you have a expensive talented team that loses out because of a mediocre goalie. Philly won a series this year, you want their goalie(s) for miller and $4M in cap space? Finally, since 2006 the league has been trending back to the pre lockout style of play. Look at obstruction calls alone and you can see this. The championship goalies in the 10 years before the lockout the winning cup goalies were: Nikolai Khabibulin Martin Brodeur Dominik Hasek Patrick Roy Martin Brodeur Ed Belfour Chris Osgood Mike Vernon Patrick Roy Martin Brodeur 6 of 10 wins by HALL of FAME goalies. And Ed Belfour and Khabibulin are nothing to sneeze at. If you want the risk, fine, but I'm not willing to do it. One huge point you are missing is the influx of quality European goaltending has narrowed the gap from the top end goalies to mid-level goalies. Another is that there are just no goaltenders of the quality of a Brodeur(in his prime), Hasek or Roy in the league today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 When the Cap goes up so does the asking prices. All the Sabres need to do is make the Sharks an offer they can't refuse. Pavelski is a good example of what should be possible in "hockey heaven." like stafford, sekera, and a 1st... :beer: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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