Hahaha! Torres has 6 goals so far for Vancouver

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Sticking to the personal put down? Then again, arguing on a message board is like winning the Special Olympics, you may think you've won but you're still a handicapped.

 

That wasn't meant to be a personal putdown.

 

I meant you are willing to defend the lifeless hunk of rock that is the Sabre organization, to your death.

 

And yes....I am a Sabre fan.....I probably would qualify.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Regardless of what the're doing today, Pyatt, Bernier, and Torres did Jack Squat as Sabres. You forgot Zubrus and Moore, too. I don't know, maybe it's a pattern or whatever, but the fact is that those guys had to be let go based on their performance as Sabres. How big of a tool would Darcy have been to re-up Torres after he scored zero goals for Buffalo?

 

Correct.

 

Which brings us back to:

 

"He's Ruff at home....but just Lindy on the road."

 

I'm sure Harry Neale knows that one.

[X. Benedict]

Playoffs

 

Bernier was a key in the 1st round last year. The refs swallow whistles, and players like Sekera are left sucking on a binkie in the corner.

 

And how can you say it isn't coaching when Ruff has come out in public and said he doesn't want his forwards to play physical if it means giving up any defensive position or risk taking a penalty? That's when I gave up on the "Ruff is making the best of what he's dealt" theory. Like Darcy sitting back and letting the market dictate to him, Ruff has his guys sit back and the play gets dictated to them as well.

 

Ruff said Bernier was too slow, and Torres was out of shape. OK? Brian Boitano can probably skate circles around Ovechkin too. Ruff doesn't get it. Gaustad was a PP asset 5 years ago the tiny time he played out there. He was hard to move and was a great screen. Even popped in a few. After the free agent defection, Lindy makes him lose the weight. The guy lost his mojo.

 

I find it interesting that Adam has been playing. It's nice to see him get that garbage goal the other day, but to me, he really is too slow. At least there are guys like him and Weber getting a look.....and in all honesty, if the Sabres somehow get into the playoffs, guys like Rivet and Morrisson and Montador will be more valuable than they are now. They can get by on defense....it's just all the years of purging any talent with size or grit has forced them to field a team of defensive specialists on the front end who were brought in on the cheap or who don't have the punch to eek out 3-2 wins in the playoffs. It is up to Miller to stand on his head, and we all know that is a dicey strategy.

 

 

I would say that Adam is not a beautiful skater, but he doesn't strike me as too slow or ineffective. My biggest worry about him is his tendency to get lost on the ice. But I see him being able to play center or wing.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I would say that Adam is not a beautiful skater, but he doesn't strike me as too slow or ineffective. My biggest worry about him is his tendency to get lost on the ice. But I see him being able to play center or wing.

 

Bernier is twice the skater...that's why he was an interesting combo.

 

Like I said, I'm happy Adam is getting a look. Pretty...no. He did seem to get some confidence going, so it will be interesting to see how he puts it all together. I would be a fool to go on a rant about letting these other guys walk and not appreciate an attempt at Adam. Like too many aspects of the team, probably a day late and dollar short.

 

In general, I am not a big fan of building from within, in the NHL. There are so many race-ready players available through free agency and trades that the time it takes to select a group of middle teens and wait on them is not worth the risk/reward. Darcy had a good little run there with Campbell-Roy-Pominville-Miller, but that seems like a once in 10 year opportunity. In the NFL on the other hand, the draft is where it's at. I might be biased because I feel I can evaluate NFL talent potential very well, but you are drafting men for the most part, and their athleticism will not be altered for the most part. In the NHL, you almost have to get lucky to grab a can't-miss guy up top and the rest is more of a crap shoot.

[spndnchz]

That wasn't meant to be a personal putdown.

 

I meant you are willing to defend the lifeless hunk of rock that is the Sabre organization, to your death.

 

And yes....I am a Sabre fan.....I probably would qualify.

 

So, wanting to drop the money on my face doesn't qualify? U have a different vision of the team, but as it stands u might want 2 find a different team. My vision is put up or shut up, not u, the team.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

So, wanting to drop the money on my face doesn't qualify? U have a different vision of the team, but as it stands u might want 2 find a different team. My vision is put up or shut up, not u, the team.

 

Ummmm, you mean my response to the picture you put up of Derek Roy simulating ###### with another man and the follow up?

[X. Benedict]

Bernier is twice the skater...that's why he was an interesting combo.

 

I really disagree on this. But I have only seen two games with Bernier this year. I'll see him in person this week.

 

There was a big knock on Adam last year about his skating; but from the World Juniors last year, the AHL games, and the recent games, I gotta say, Adam ain't pretty, but he gets t o his spots. He covers much more laterally than Bernier and much more endurance for a the backcheck.

 

We'll wait and see on Adam.

 

Chances are, once I say this, Bernier scores a hatty Friday. :lol:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I really disagree on this. But I have only seen two games with Bernier this year. I'll see him in person this week.

 

There was a big knock on Adam last year about his skating; but from the World Juniors last year, the AHL games, and the recent games, I gotta say, Adam ain't pretty, but he gets t o his spots. He covers much more laterally than Bernier and much more endurance for a the backcheck.

 

We'll wait and see on Adam.

 

Chances are, once I say this, Bernier scores a hatty Friday. :lol:

 

You going to the Bills game too?

 

I should have come down. I'll take getting stuck behind 8 Haitians in an uninsured minivan going 25 MPH over going 10 MPH in 4 feet of snow anyday.

[X. Benedict]

You going to the Bills game too?

 

I should have come down. I'll take getting stuck behind 8 Haitians in an uninsured minivan going 25 MPH over going 10 MPH in 4 feet of snow anyday.

 

I haven't decided yet. Depends how ambitious I get. Maybe Lightening game on Sat. instead.

[spndnchz]

Ummmm, you mean my response to the picture you put up of Derek Roy simulating ###### with another man and the follow up?

 

Oh okay. Didn't know you were responding to a post I made, in another thread, 48 hours later. Furry puppies.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Oh okay. Didn't know you were responding to a post I made, in another thread, 48 hours later. Furry puppies.

 

You were crediting Roy with a phantom goal. I saw that pic the other day, but really....what more needs to be said about him? It just "fit" too well into this current subject to ignore.

 

I respect your views and I only challenged you because you have all the tools to see the big picture and can defend yourself well if the case is valid. You goof around a lot, and so do I. Sort of like a real team, we all take on a role in this little community....but I appologize for sometimes looking at this site as a game of internet chess instead of looking at the feelings of the person on the other end, no matter how tough I presume them to be. You are a good sport, but I know I have said enough things at times that would make a sailor cringe. So I just wanted you to know you are a good kid, and I do respect you, and I am sorry if I ever took too many liberties with you in the past...because I don't want to cut anyone down who has honest intentions, no matter how much in jest I feel I am coming from.

 

And that goes for the rest of you scumbags as well.

[PASabreFan]

Re: Roy suspected of being gay. Mark Bingham was a gay guy who by all accounts was part of the charging of the cockpit on United Flight 93. He played rugby in college and had a scar he liked to show off, one he earned by getting gored in the running of the bulls in Spain. As shrader (or ink?) once said, to suggest the Sabres are gay is probably offensive to gay people everywhere.

[spndnchz]

Re: Roy suspected of being gay. Mark Bingham was a gay guy who by all accounts was part of the charging of the cockpit on United Flight 93. He played rugby in college and had a scar he liked to show off, one he earned by getting gored in the running of the bulls in Spain. As shrader (or ink?) once said, to suggest the Sabres are gay is probably offensive to gay people everywhere.

 

FTR, Roy's not gay. He just has a target on his back, or somewhere...

[nfreeman]

And here's the big problem with what you're saying. He has put those numbers up in Vancouver but that does not mean he would have put up the same exact numbers playing here. Players have more value to some teams than they do to others. Now I'm with you that the coaching completely butchered the situation with Torres, but the rest is just beating a dead horse. They should have kept this guy, they shouldn't have kept that guy. It's done. Those moves can't be undone. The only thing they can change is where they go from here.

It seemed to me like the Sabres gave Torres plenty of chances and he just didn't deliver. Add the out-of-shape factor to the non-production, and there aren't many coaches or GMs who would've been happy. If there is blame to go around on Torres, I think it goes first to Torres and then to DR.

 

The point being.....they made THE EXACT SAME MOVE with Pyatt, Bernier, and Torres. All 3 are 200lb+ forwards who are hard to move off the puck, will stick up for teammates, were young or in their prime, could be had for low cost, and can chip in between 15-30 goals any given year.

 

Pyatt and Bernier went to Vancouver during off years for the Canucks and went on to make noise in the playoffs. Pyatt is the forward we wanted Hecht to be, for 1/3 the price. This after he was a bull against Carolina in the playoffs and still 25. Bernier was a monster when left to play on instincts and once limited to "The System", was suddenly too slow for Lindy. Torres was like bringing in a longshoreman to a room full of CPA's. He looked out of place and I'm sure was glad to redeem himself somewhere else.

 

I don't think any of them are all-stars. I don't even think they are the best examples of power forwards. But the only point people can come up with is "Oh, they played with the Sedins!". "Oh, they play on a good team". Well, Phoenix was an afterthought going into last season but Pyatt was a top defensive forward and continues to be on a team that values physical play and hard work. Vancouver has been at the top of their conference because they fleece "journeymen" from other teams and put a good mix on the ice. Heck, Bernier is on a Florida team that blew itself up and is on pace for another 15-20 goal season as they trade barbs with the Sabres in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

 

Great, they are gone. But who were they replaced with? Grier and Neidermeyer, 3 years too late, and raises to Stafford, Gaustad, Hecht and Pominville to the tune of $15 million+. I still think there is hope for Gaustad and Stafford if they went to another team as well....but Mr Goose may have developed a terminal case of Lindyitis and other teams aren't willing to take the chance.

I think you're well overrating these 3 guys. Bernier is on his 4th team in 5 full NHL seasons. Pyatt is a serviceable 3rd liner but not appreciably better in any respect than Grier -- and Grier is a better checker and on the PK. Torres is the one who is most intriguing, because he has good hands and a nose for the big hit, but again, he played his way out of Buffalo last season.

 

I hate Hecht's and Pommer's contracts as much as anyone, and frankly if the Sabres could trade those 2 guys for 2 of Bernier, Torres and Pyatt, I'd be happy, because it would mean the Sabres freed up $7MM to bring in a good player. But I think Gaustad, Grier and probably Niedermayer are each better than any of those 3 guys.

 

Regardless of what the're doing today, Pyatt, Bernier, and Torres did Jack Squat as Sabres. You forgot Zubrus and Moore, too. I don't know, maybe it's a pattern or whatever, but the fact is that those guys had to be let go based on their performance as Sabres. How big of a tool would Darcy have been to re-up Torres after he scored zero goals for Buffalo?

I thought, and still think, Zubrus was the best of the lot.

Zubrus was pretty good and I think the Sabres would've gladly kept him at a reasonable contract, but Sweet Lou precluded that possibility with a ridiculous offer.

 

Playoffs

 

Bernier was a key in the 1st round last year. The refs swallow whistles, and players like Sekera are left sucking on a binkie in the corner.

 

And how can you say it isn't coaching when Ruff has come out in public and said he doesn't want his forwards to play physical if it means giving up any defensive position or risk taking a penalty? That's when I gave up on the "Ruff is making the best of what he's dealt" theory. Like Darcy sitting back and letting the market dictate to him, Ruff has his guys sit back and the play gets dictated to them as well.

 

Ruff said Bernier was too slow, and Torres was out of shape. OK? Brian Boitano can probably skate circles around Ovechkin too. Ruff doesn't get it. Gaustad was a PP asset 5 years ago the tiny time he played out there. He was hard to move and was a great screen. Even popped in a few. After the free agent defection, Lindy makes him lose the weight. The guy lost his mojo.

 

I find it interesting that Adam has been playing. It's nice to see him get that garbage goal the other day, but to me, he really is too slow. At least there are guys like him and Weber getting a look.....and in all honesty, if the Sabres somehow get into the playoffs, guys like Rivet and Morrisson and Montador will be more valuable than they are now. They can get by on defense....it's just all the years of purging any talent with size or grit has forced them to field a team of defensive specialists on the front end who were brought in on the cheap or who don't have the punch to eek out 3-2 wins in the playoffs. It is up to Miller to stand on his head, and we all know that is a dicey strategy.

Bernier did have a good first round, but disappeared thereafter and in any event wasn't good enough to make the Canucks keep him.

 

As for coaching, Lindy hasn't said he doesn't want his forwards to play physical. He's made statements about avoiding penalties, which I think have been well blown out of proportion. He's also made plenty of statements about competing on the forecheck, winning battles and playing with passion. And he's moved Weber above Butler and Rivet on the depth chart (and apparently screamed at Butler to hit more on D).

 

I think Gaustad has been having a good year.

 

In general, I am not a big fan of building from within, in the NHL. There are so many race-ready players available through free agency and trades that the time it takes to select a group of middle teens and wait on them is not worth the risk/reward. Darcy had a good little run there with Campbell-Roy-Pominville-Miller, but that seems like a once in 10 year opportunity. In the NFL on the other hand, the draft is where it's at. I might be biased because I feel I can evaluate NFL talent potential very well, but you are drafting men for the most part, and their athleticism will not be altered for the most part. In the NHL, you almost have to get lucky to grab a can't-miss guy up top and the rest is more of a crap shoot.

I don't agree with this. The best teams in the NHL (Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago) are primarily built from within and supplemented with strong acquisitions. The Sabres have foregone the 2nd component, quite possibly due to ownership directive. Hopefully this will change if Pegula buys the team.

[Weave]

I don't agree with this. The best teams in the NHL (Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago) are primarily built from within and supplemented with strong acquisitions. The Sabres have foregone the 2nd component, quite possibly due to ownership directive. Hopefully this will change if Pegula buys the team.

 

2 of those 3 teams had to lie in the basement for years before they were able to successfully build from within. Detroit's organization is an anomoly.

[Calvin]

2 of those 3 teams had to lie in the basement for years before they were able to successfully build from within. Detroit's organization is an anomoly.

that's true. does it mean we have to endure worse years than this before we get better? i hope not!

 

at the same time, that might be better than this middle-of-the-road nonsense..

[rickshaw]

Which one, Roy or Connolly?

 

 

Torres has 1 goal in his last 16.

[spndnchz]

Torres has 1 goal in his last 16.

 

DejaVu

[X. Benedict]

Torres has 1 goal in his last 16.

 

Sadly, that outpaces GERBE. (do we all capatilize GERBE?)

[Eleven]

Sadly, that outpaces GERBE. (do we all capatilize GERBE?)

 

It makes him feel bigger.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Sadly, that outpaces GERBE. (do we all capatilize GERBE?)

 

No, I expensed him.

[JujuFish]

Speaking of goals in their last 16 games, Stafford has now played 16 games this season with 8 goals and 13 points. :blink:

[spndnchz]

Speaking of goals in their last 16 games, Stafford has now played 16 games this season with 8 goals and 13 points. :blink:

 

Rather have Bernier, or Pyatt or what's his name... :yawn:

[rickshaw]

DejaVu

 

I realize that, but the responses afterwards didn't mention Torres, but Connolly. The thread got off track it seemed, so I tried putting it back on the rails. Torres didn't score last night either.

[spndnchz]

This thread must die.