Darcy's done?

[static70]

None of these is a fact. Each is a completely unsubstantiated rumor.

1. There were 6 teams reportedly interested, but recently the comments have been 4 teams, and yes, it is speculation that Buf, NJ, Bos and LA are those 4 teams.

2. Bruins - CAP SPACE $-2,187,771, Devils - CAP SPACE $-2,301,666

3. DARREN DREGER

6/25/2009 3:20:25 PM

 

Sources tell TSN the Toronto Maple Leafs have received what the team considers to be a significant offer for defenceman Tomas Kaberle.

 

There are few details available, however the offer arrived unexpectedly Thursday afternoon and is believed to be from one of the teams who may have been in the hunt, trying to acquire the negotiating rights to Florida's Jay Bouwmeester.

 

Toronto had originally intended on holding on to Kaberle until after the July 1 free agent frenzy in hope of attracting a better package from a team that wasn't able to land a free agent defenceman.

 

Sources say the Leafs are seriously considering the offer while waiting to see what other interest materializes in the coming hours.

KNOWN CLAUSES: NTC (can designate up to 10 teams he will accept at trade to; if his team misses the playoffs in 2008-09 or 2009-10, he can be traded from the following entry draft until Aug. 15)

I stand corrected on #3 as I read his NTC incorrectly. You are correct nfreeman, he does not, in fact, get to list his 10 teams since they did not make the playoffs.

4. Another one correct nfreeman, but Kaberle himself stated he did not want to go to far away as his family is living in the Toronto area.

[carpandean]

Spector chimes in:

 

BUFFALO NEWS: Mike Harrington reports there doesn't appear to be many irons left in the fire for the Sabres. GM Darcy Regier is putting together his minor league roster and toward training camp, leading Harrington to suggest it doesn't sound like Lee Stempniak, Kevin Bieksa, Tomas Kaberle or anyone new is going to be joining the club.

 

SPECTOR'S NOTE: In other words, same story, different day.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

1. There were 6 teams reportedly interested, but recently the comments have been 4 teams, and yes, it is speculation that Buf, NJ, Bos and LA are those 4 teams.

2. Bruins - CAP SPACE $-2,187,771, Devils - CAP SPACE $-2,301,666

3. DARREN DREGER

6/25/2009 3:20:25 PM

 

Sources tell TSN the Toronto Maple Leafs have received what the team considers to be a significant offer for defenceman Tomas Kaberle.

 

There are few details available, however the offer arrived unexpectedly Thursday afternoon and is believed to be from one of the teams who may have been in the hunt, trying to acquire the negotiating rights to Florida's Jay Bouwmeester.

 

Toronto had originally intended on holding on to Kaberle until after the July 1 free agent frenzy in hope of attracting a better package from a team that wasn't able to land a free agent defenceman.

 

Sources say the Leafs are seriously considering the offer while waiting to see what other interest materializes in the coming hours.

KNOWN CLAUSES: NTC (can designate up to 10 teams he will accept at trade to; if his team misses the playoffs in 2008-09 or 2009-10, he can be traded from the following entry draft until Aug. 15)

I stand corrected on #3 as I read his NTC incorrectly. You are correct nfreeman, he does not, in fact, get to list his 10 teams since they did not make the playoffs.

4. Another one correct nfreeman, but Kaberle himself stated he did not want to go to far away as his family is living in the Toronto area.

 

As much as I want to believe this, the Dreger report is from 2009, last summer. A lot has changed since then.

[nfreeman]

No, I don't think it's that simple at all, but any half-wit could tell you that one-dimensional teams never win anything in this league, and if there ever was a one-dimensional team, it's the Sabres.

 

We went from all-offense after the lockout, to Lindy's beloved "Miller" system. The real solution to being competitive probably lies somwhere in between, but neither Darcy nor Lindy seems to understand this.

 

The Sabres may not be undersized when it comes to the average weight and height of the team, but they certainly play like they're undersized.

 

Oficially, no rules have been abandoned.

 

Unoficially, interference and cluthing & grabbing is literally *never* called anymore, which was the 05-07 teams lifeblood - The ability to move without being held or interfered with continously.

 

*edit

 

And while some may consider the Devils a one-dimensional team, it shouldn't be forgotten that while those teams may have played a dull defensive scheme of hockey, they always had some sort of firepower on their roster to complement it.

The Sabres were #9 in the NHL in scoring and #4 in defense this year. Is that not "somewhere in between?" And how in the world is it "one-dimensional?"

 

I don't think anyone here thinks this team isn't flawed. Perhaps Lindy understands, like you and the rest of us, that this team has real limitations, but, doing what a coach is supposed to do, he instituted a system designed to get the most wins out of the players he has available to him.

 

Do you watch NHL games now and think the players are "held or interfered with continuously?" So it's the same game it was pre-lockout?

 

I just think your posts are painting a very black-and-white view of the Sabres and the NHL generally. The team is flawed and is missing a couple of important pieces. But it's not a bad team, nor is it ill-conceived or poorly coached.

 

BTW, I don't think Darcy is blind to this team's holes. If he doesn't fill them from outside the organization, and the team he built doesn't deliver the goods, he should be gone after this year.

[static70]

Spector chimes in:

 

BUFFALO NEWS: Mike Harrington reports there doesn't appear to be many irons left in the fire for the Sabres. GM Darcy Regier is putting together his minor league roster and toward training camp, leading Harrington to suggest it doesn't sound like Lee Stempniak, Kevin Bieksa, Tomas Kaberle or anyone new is going to be joining the club.

 

SPECTOR'S NOTE: In other words, same story, different day.

 

 

Nothing in the way of good news does this bring.

Well then, I guess this question needs to be asked.

 

Who is going to start the FIRE REGIER AND RUFF thread? :unsure:

[Taro T]

Well then, lets play a little theroy here.

The Sabres currently have the cap space to take on Savards contract and Boston needs some cap space. If Savard is the one to be moved and Buffalo were interested, what would be the asking price I wonder, perhaps draft picks or maybe Sekera?

 

The next question I would have deals directly with the center position. Bringing in Savard would almost assure a movement of either Roy or Connolly, this being the case, I would be inclined to put either one of them in a deal for Kaberle to help bolster the PPQB position.

 

Of course, this is all merely speculation, but those 2 moves in conjuction with adding Ennis to the roster could very well put Buffalo in a better position than they are now in so far as competitiveness. I would like to see some size up front, but Savard would be a risk worth taking IMO as well.

 

Just some thoughts is all.

Why would that be?

 

My understanding is that the Sabres don't have cap issues by bringing in Savard, so neither of those 2 would have to move for cap reasons.

 

Darcy is on record from way back when as stating that center is a priority position (even though that may not be intuitively obviously post 7/1/07), and Roy has played very well on LW. Having all 3 gives the team a very reasonable amount of depth at C, even top 2 C's. Timmy is a very good #2 C, if he were better on faceoffs, I might even say he's a #1 C. Savard IS a #1 C. Roy could handle the duty on either line as C for a while if injury necessitated it. They'd also have Niedermayer and Goose for #3&4. Kennedy could fill in at any C spot (top 2 lines in desperation, and he has a lot of time as #3C), Ennis and Hecht could fill in as well. (Notice Hecht was the last one listed. I don't like him at C, but if they are seriously depleted it's available.) Having either Roy or Ennis on LW on a line w/ Vanek would allow Tom to set up on the left side in the offensive zone, which is his comfort zone even if he's listed as a RW on the depth chart.

 

Not saying one wouldn't be moved, especially for the right deal; I just don't see why Roy or Connolly would automatically be moved by bringing in Savard.

[static70]

Why would that be?

 

My understanding is that the Sabres don't have cap issues by bringing in Savard, so neither of those 2 would have to move for cap reasons.

 

Darcy is on record from way back when as stating that center is a priority position (even though that may not be intuitively obviously post 7/1/07), and Roy has played very well on LW. Having all 3 gives the team a very reasonable amount of depth at C, even top 2 C's. Timmy is a very good #2 C, if he were better on faceoffs, I might even say he's a #1 C. Savard IS a #1 C. Roy could handle the duty on either line as C for a while if injury necessitated it. They'd also have Niedermayer and Goose for #3&4. Kennedy could fill in at any C spot (top 2 lines in desperation, and he has a lot of time as #3C), Ennis and Hecht could fill in as well. (Notice Hecht was the last one listed. I don't like him at C, but if they are seriously depleted it's available.) Having either Roy or Ennis on LW on a line w/ Vanek would allow Tom to set up on the left side in the offensive zone, which is his comfort zone even if he's listed as a RW on the depth chart.

 

Not saying one wouldn't be moved, especially for the right deal; I just don't see why Roy or Connolly would automatically be moved by bringing in Savard.

When you say Tom, do you mean Vanek?

Vanek has played LW his entire career I believe, he was a LW in college as well. Not sure about his youth though. But who has him listed as a RW if TOM is Thomas Vanek?

[Kristian]

The Sabres were #9 in the NHL in scoring and #4 in defense this year. Is that not "somewhere in between?" And how in the world is it "one-dimensional?"

 

I don't think anyone here thinks this team isn't flawed. Perhaps Lindy understands, like you and the rest of us, that this team has real limitations, but, doing what a coach is supposed to do, he instituted a system designed to get the most wins out of the players he has available to him.

 

Do you watch NHL games now and think the players are "held or interfered with continuously?" So it's the same game it was pre-lockout?

 

I just think your posts are painting a very black-and-white view of the Sabres and the NHL generally. The team is flawed and is missing a couple of important pieces. But it's not a bad team, nor is it ill-conceived or poorly coached.

 

BTW, I don't think Darcy is blind to this team's holes. If he doesn't fill them from outside the organization, and the team he built doesn't deliver the goods, he should be gone after this year.

 

It's a one-dimensional strategy, because it relies on Miller standing on his head.

 

Offense shows up against Florida and Tampa, disappears when facing the teams that aren't allergic to defense.

 

Sorry, but the numbers definitely do not tell the whole story with this team.

 

How can anyone who watched more than 10 games this season say this defense was 4th in the league? BS - Miller WAS that defense and carried Sekera, Butler, Rivet and Montador on his back to that 4th place.

 

It's not the same game was it was pre-lockout - Stick infractions are being called like there's no tomorrow, but infractions that affect the actual flow of the game, like interference, are rarely called.

 

Bottom line is the way it's called now doesn't favor the contact-shy Sabres like it did in the no-touch years.

 

Darcy took forever to realise this, even though everyone else saw it happen in the both the 06 and 07 playoffs - The more the refs swallowed their whistles, the more trouble the Sabres had generating offense, particularly on the PP. Did Darcy just see this happen, and then sat back and said "Oh well, guess they won't swallow their whistles next post-season"?

[static70]

Why would that be?

 

My understanding is that the Sabres don't have cap issues by bringing in Savard, so neither of those 2 would have to move for cap reasons.

 

Darcy is on record from way back when as stating that center is a priority position (even though that may not be intuitively obviously post 7/1/07), and Roy has played very well on LW. Having all 3 gives the team a very reasonable amount of depth at C, even top 2 C's. Timmy is a very good #2 C, if he were better on faceoffs, I might even say he's a #1 C. Savard IS a #1 C. Roy could handle the duty on either line as C for a while if injury necessitated it. They'd also have Niedermayer and Goose for #3&4. Kennedy could fill in at any C spot (top 2 lines in desperation, and he has a lot of time as #3C), Ennis and Hecht could fill in as well. (Notice Hecht was the last one listed. I don't like him at C, but if they are seriously depleted it's available.) Having either Roy or Ennis on LW on a line w/ Vanek would allow Tom to set up on the left side in the offensive zone, which is his comfort zone even if he's listed as a RW on the depth chart.

 

Not saying one wouldn't be moved, especially for the right deal; I just don't see why Roy or Connolly would automatically be moved by bringing in Savard.

Looking at the current contracts, would the team plan on replacing Hecht, Rivet, Montador, Niedermayer and Grier with 1 million dollar contracts. I was looking at what Myers was going to command upon his resigning, and if Savard is on the team, thats an additional 4 mil a season contract on top of Vaneks, Pommers, Connolly's and Leopolds contracts.

[static70]

It's a one-dimensional strategy, because it relies on Miller standing on his head.

 

Offense shows up against Florida and Tampa, disappears when facing the teams that aren't allergic to defense.

 

Sorry, but the numbers definitely do not tell the whole story with this team.

 

How can anyone who watched more than 10 games this season say this defense was 4th in the league? BS - Miller WAS that defense and carried Sekera, Butler, Rivet and Montador on his back to that 4th place.

 

It's not the same game was it was pre-lockout - Stick infractions are being called like there's no tomorrow, but infractions that affect the actual flow of the game, like interference, are rarely called.

 

Bottom line is the way it's called now doesn't favor the contact-shy Sabres like it did in the no-touch years.

 

Darcy took forever to realise this, even though everyone else saw it happen in the both the 06 and 07 playoffs - The more the refs swallowed their whistles, the more trouble the Sabres had generating offense, particularly on the PP. Did Darcy just see this happen, and then sat back and said "Oh well, guess they won't swallow their whistles next post-season"?

Come on man, get with the program.

This was all a part of Darcy's 20 season plan. You see, it works like this............

Lull the rest of the league into thinking they've won the Stanley Cup all of these years, then, in season 15, you spring your trap.

Resign Myers, let Ennis develope and cross your fingers that Adams, Tropp and the rest can develope in a couple of years and waaaalaaaaa...............you have the 03-04 Sabres all over again.

Then all he has to do is find his next Briere adn Drury and sign them and the Cup "MIGHT" be ours in season 17 of the 20 season plan. :thumbsup:

[nfreeman]

It's a one-dimensional strategy, because it relies on Miller standing on his head.

 

Offense shows up against Florida and Tampa, disappears when facing the teams that aren't allergic to defense.

 

Sorry, but the numbers definitely do not tell the whole story with this team.

 

How can anyone who watched more than 10 games this season say this defense was 4th in the league? BS - Miller WAS that defense and carried Sekera, Butler, Rivet and Montador on his back to that 4th place.

 

It's not the same game was it was pre-lockout - Stick infractions are being called like there's no tomorrow, but infractions that affect the actual flow of the game, like interference, are rarely called.

 

Bottom line is the way it's called now doesn't favor the contact-shy Sabres like it did in the no-touch years.

 

Darcy took forever to realise this, even though everyone else saw it happen in the both the 06 and 07 playoffs - The more the refs swallowed their whistles, the more trouble the Sabres had generating offense, particularly on the PP. Did Darcy just see this happen, and then sat back and said "Oh well, guess they won't swallow their whistles next post-season"?

Got any data to support the bolded part? i.e. anything showing that the Sabres fatten up their scoring numbers against Florida and Tampa more than other teams do?

 

I watched much more than 10 games this year, and while Miller had a great year, I think the Sabres' defensive success was much more a function of an overall team defensive approach than it was Miller standing on his head.

 

Hooking is a stick foul. Does it not affect the flow of the game?

 

My bottom line is that the Sabres' lack of success has nothing to do with any change with how the games are called now (which is different from '05-'07, but only slightly) and everything to do with negative changes to their roster.

[Taro T]

When you say Tom, do you mean Vanek?

Vanek has played LW his entire career I believe, he was a LW in college as well. Not sure about his youth though. But who has him listed as a RW if TOM is Thomas Vanek?

Yes, I do.

 

As was discussed a couple of weeks ago, Tom was playing RW in the Bruin series. But as mentioned in that discussion of a couple of weeks ago, he'd move back to the left side in the Bruins' zone when he could. He COULD get moved to RW if it makes sense w/ the rest of the personnel. Having Savard on the roster, could make it make sense.

 

Looking at the current contracts, would the team plan on replacing Hecht, Rivet, Montador, Niedermayer and Grier with 1 million dollar contracts. I was looking at what Myers was going to command upon his resigning, and if Savard is on the team, thats an additional 4 mil a season contract on top of Vaneks, Pommers, Connolly's and Leopolds contracts.

What does Myers' signing 2 years from now have to do with having to trade Connolly or Roy this year if Savard is brought in? Connolly and Hecht are both off the books before they have to work out a new deal w/ Myers. And there will in all likelihood be a new CBA in place by the time Tyler starts playing under his new deal.

 

Which brings us back to my original Q, why does bringing in Savard automatically mean Timmy or Derek go bye-bye?

[static70]

Yes, I do.

 

As was discussed a couple of weeks ago, Tom was playing RW in the Bruin series. But as mentioned in that discussion of a couple of weeks ago, he'd move back to the left side in the Bruins' zone when he could. He COULD get moved to RW if it makes sense w/ the rest of the personnel. Having Savard on the roster, could make it make sense.

 

 

What does Myers' signing 2 years from now have to do with having to trade Connolly or Roy this year if Savard is brought in? Connolly and Hecht are both off the books before they have to work out a new deal w/ Myers. And there will in all likelihood be a new CBA in place by the time Tyler starts playing under his new deal.

 

Which brings us back to my original Q, why does bringing in Savard automatically mean Timmy or Derek go bye-bye?

carp and I were discussing this.

I was looking at the numbers from Savards contract on the actual payroll side of things, not the cap hits. Although he is a 4 mil cap hit, he is actually alot more in salary. I was wondering if the organization would pay that considering the other contracts when it comes time to pay Myers. Remember, Savard's contract is long.

[Taro T]

carp and I were discussing this.

I was looking at the numbers from Savards contract on the actual payroll side of things, not the cap hits. Although he is a 4 mil cap hit, he is actually alot more in salary. I was wondering if the organization would pay that considering the other contracts when it comes time to pay Myers. Remember, Savard's contract is long.

I'm sorry, I fail to see how this supports the assertion that

{b}ringing in Savard would almost assure a movement of either Roy or Connolly

.

[static70]

I'm sorry, I fail to see how this supports the assertion that .

Well Taro, the post was in theory on Savard coming in.

And it was related to the fact that we would then have 5 centers in the lineup, just a deduction on my part based on Connolly, Roy, Niedermayer and Gaustad being centers and there would literally be no reason to have Savard, Roy and Connolly on the team in my opinion.

[PASabreFan]

Got any data to support the bolded part? i.e. anything showing that the Sabres fatten up their scoring numbers against Florida and Tampa more than other teams do?

Well, the Sabres did score 4.625 goals per game against the Florida teams.

[nfreeman]

Well, the Sabres did score 4.625 goals per game against the Florida teams.

 

Perhaps, but how did the other top 10 scoring teams do against their weakest opponents? Kristian claimed that the Sabres had a crappy offense and only did well against the Fla teams. My point is that everyone fattened up their stats against those teams.

[ECHL]

Reading this. The Sabres are the best 1 dimentional 2 way team? Power play did not play with consistency. Accept for Caps and Pens everyone in the conference had a ###### offense I think.

[Eleven]

Perhaps, but how did the other top 10 scoring teams do against their weakest opponents? Kristian claimed that the Sabres had a crappy offense and only did well against the Fla teams. My point is that everyone fattened up their stats against those teams.

 

Out of the top ten teams in wins last year, only one was in the only division with four playoff teams (which PA called a "weak" division). Out of the top ten teams in goals per game, only one was in the only division with four playoff teams (which PA called a "weak" division). That team: The Buffalo Sabres.

[ECHL]

Out of the top ten teams in wins last year, only one was in the only division with four playoff teams (which PA called a "weak" division). Out of the top ten teams in goals per game, only one was in the only division with four playoff teams (which PA called a "weak" division). That team: The Buffalo Sabres.

The leafs make the division look real bad.

[nfreeman]

Out of the top ten teams in wins last year, only one was in the only division with four playoff teams (which PA called a "weak" division). Out of the top ten teams in goals per game, only one was in the only division with four playoff teams (which PA called a "weak" division). That team: The Buffalo Sabres.

 

Boom goes the dynamite!

 

To the "this team stinks" crowd: I'll admit preemptively that this is another stat that paints a rosier picture than a first-round exit supports. Still, though, the point is this: the Sabres aren't that far away from being a real contender. They need a couple of pieces, and the ones they need are important. But they already have a good number of nice pieces, they learned how to execute and win in the regular season last year like professionals, and they are progressing.

[SwampD]

Boom goes the dynamite!

 

To the "this team stinks" crowd: I'll admit preemptively that this is another stat that paints a rosier picture than a first-round exit supports. Still, though, the point is this: the Sabres aren't that far away from being a real contender. They need a couple of pieces, and the ones they need are important. But they already have a good number of nice pieces, they learned how to execute and win in the regular season last year like professionals, and they are progressing.

Posts like this drive me batty. Last year wasn't that bad and we'll git'em next year. It's 2010, right? I just had to make sure because it feels exactly like 2009.

 

As the team stands now (which is the one that I believe will hit the ice in October), I see the same outcome next spring. I just wonder if the people who say that that is when they will be mad, actually will be.

 

I bet I could actually be very happy if I was just apathetic about everything.

[VansTheMans]

There's not much on this team to defend.

 

I just don't get it. :wallbash:

[Kristian]

Got any data to support the bolded part? i.e. anything showing that the Sabres fatten up their scoring numbers against Florida and Tampa more than other teams do?

 

I watched much more than 10 games this year, and while Miller had a great year, I think the Sabres' defensive success was much more a function of an overall team defensive approach than it was Miller standing on his head.

 

Hooking is a stick foul. Does it not affect the flow of the game?

 

My bottom line is that the Sabres' lack of success has nothing to do with any change with how the games are called now (which is different from '05-'07, but only slightly) and everything to do with negative changes to their roster.

 

Hooking is called yes, so I guess that means they can easily let interference slip, right?

 

I see a clueless defense split wide open time and time again only to be bailed out by their goaltender.

 

Please explain how they always lose with Lalime in net, despite serviceable numbers for a backup?

[Kristian]

Perhaps, but how did the other top 10 scoring teams do against their weakest opponents? Kristian claimed that the Sabres had a crappy offense and only did well against the Fla teams. My point is that everyone fattened up their stats against those teams.

 

Washington and Buffalo's numbers against Tampa in 09-10 look virtually identical, except WAS played them two more times.

 

Hell, against Tampa, Roy looks like Ovechkin :

 

http://sabres.nhl.com/club/teamvsteamdetails.htm?season=20092010&team=TBL

 

http://capitals.nhl.com/club/teamvsteamdetails.htm?season=20092010&team=TBL

 

New Jersey doesn't come close :

 

http://lightning.nhl.com/club/teamvsteamdetails.htm?season=20092010&team=NJD (sorry this is the Lightning page, scroll down for NJ's numbers).

 

Penguins are even worse :

 

http://lightning.nhl.com/club/teamvsteamdetails.htm?season=20092010&team=PIT

 

That said, I used Florida and Tampa as an example. Sabres don't traditionally play very well against Florida. I think this past season, Carolina might have been a better example.