Should the Sabres have paid what NJ paid for Kovy?

[LabattBlue]

You are right, and it will really stay out until the playoff results are in. I did think it was somewhat interesting that there hasn't been much pop yet -- e.g. Kovy did zero last night other than rack up a minus-2. I also think we would've been hearing quite a bit from the "Darcy sucks" crowd if NJ had gone 4-0 with him. But I didn't mean it as an "I told you so" -- neither side in the debate will be entitled to that until NJ's playoffs are over.

The NHL Network guys pointed out last night, how the Philly players skated right around Kovy like he was a pylon on the GWG.

[nfreeman]

Why would that be? Kovy was brought in to better the Devils chances of wining another Cup. If they end up winning the Cup or not. Lou sent a message that the Devils will be a contender this season. He didn't go on the radio and basically wave a white flag like Regier did. Regier's level of failure this season is based solely on what he does or more likely doesn't do. Kovy's name appearing on Cup doesn't change it either way. That damage is already done.

First, are you saying that you wouldn't have been trumpeting the NJ trade loudly if they were 4-0 with Kovy right now? Really?

 

Second, you don't get anything in the NHL for making splashy trades and appeasing message board critics. You get something for winning. If NJ fizzles out early, as they've done each of the last FIVE playoff seasons, then it wasn't a good trade. Similarly, if Darcy doesn't do anything more than a minor tweak at the deadline, but the Sabres have a good playoff run, then not making a Kovy-type trade was the right move (and, if the Sabres limp into the postseason and get dusted in the 1st round, then not making a real trade was the wrong move). It's not about headlines -- it's about winning.

 

Third, DR didn't "wave a white flag." He restated what everyone already knew -- i.e. that he doesn't believe in expending lots of assets for playoff rentals. That is not even close to an admission that they aren't trying to win this season.

[Lethbridge Broncos]

I wouldnt read too much into a game-by-game anylsis of Kozy thus far. It is the playoffs where he will standout. With his PP shot from the point -- the Devils just went from a pretended to a contender. To be able to score in the PP in the playoff with their defensive system and good core of forwards, they can now contend with the Caps and Pens. It is all about PP palyoff goals.

 

 

 

 

 

You are right, and it will really stay out until the playoff results are in. I did think it was somewhat interesting that there hasn't been much pop yet -- e.g. Kovy did zero last night other than rack up a minus-2. I also think we would've been hearing quite a bit from the "Darcy sucks" crowd if NJ had gone 4-0 with him. But I didn't mean it as an "I told you so" -- neither side in the debate will be entitled to that until NJ's playoffs are over.

[inkman]

Because that deal would have involved Kassian (=Cormier) and not Ennis.

Which would have made me balk at the idea. I don't think Kassian is the savior but he embodies everything the Sabres lack right now. They need about 5 Kassians. This team lack so much sack.

[nfreeman]

Out of curiosity, I checked NJ's record since the trade: 8 wins, 11 losses.

 

Sabres' record since the trade: 10 wins, 11 losses.

 

It's what happens in the playoffs that matters, but so far, not so good for NJ.

[That Aud Smell]

Out of curiosity, I checked NJ's record since the trade: 8 wins, 11 losses.

 

Sabres' record since the trade: 10 wins, 11 losses.

and i hafta think that we're trending more favorably as present.

[Trey]

I think a lot will depend on if the Devils can sign him after this year.

 

Hmmm, at first I agreed, but after a moment of thought, I changed my mind. The reason is that Kovy might sign with NJ, but he would have never signed a deal with Buffalo. The organization may be getting a more positive rep, but it's not happening fast enough. If he wants money, he'll end up in a team with tons of cap room. If he wants fame he'll end up in NY/NJ/Detroit/Montreal/Chicago/etc. Buffalo will never be on his radar.

 

With that being said, I voted no. For some reason I have flashbacks to Kozlov when I think of Kovy...maybe it's just his name :unsure: Anyway, I have a hard time seeing a star like Kovy fitting into a Lindy Ruff system. Star defensemen and goalies, yes, but forwards just don't fit. He'd get mad and it would upset our chemistry.

[PASabreFan]

Out of curiosity, I checked NJ's record since the trade: 8 wins, 11 losses.

 

Sabres' record since the trade: 10 wins, 11 losses.

 

It's what happens in the playoffs that matters, but so far, not so good for NJ.

 

What are you saying? We can suck without Kovalchuk, so why bother sucking with him?

[nfreeman]

What are you saying? We can suck without Kovalchuk, so why bother sucking with him?

I'm saying that adding him so far hasn't proved to be the silver bullet that some thought it was. Further, when you consider the steep price that NJ paid (top-4 defenseman in his prime and under contract for the next few years, organization's #1 prospect, #1 pick next year and decent young scoring winger), which takes a chunk out of their team going forward, staying out of the Kovy auction was the right move.

 

OTOH, if NJ turns it on in the playoffs and have a deep run (ie conf. finals or better), then NJ made the right move. How's that for a straddle?

[SwampD]

Out of curiosity, I checked NJ's record since the trade: 8 wins, 11 losses.

 

Sabres' record since the trade: 10 wins, 11 losses.

 

It's what happens in the playoffs that matters, but so far, not so good for NJ.

In their 19 games before the trade NJ was 7-12.

 

They got better.

 

 

 

Lindy really has us all hoodwinked if we're really trying to justify how bringing a 50 goal scorer to the Sabres would have been a bad thing.

[deluca67]

I'm saying that adding him so far hasn't proved to be the silver bullet that some thought it was. Further, when you consider the steep price that NJ paid (top-4 defenseman in his prime and under contract for the next few years, organization's #1 prospect, #1 pick next year and decent young scoring winger), which takes a chunk out of their team going forward, staying out of the Kovy auction was the right move.

 

OTOH, if NJ turns it on in the playoffs and have a deep run (ie conf. finals or better), then NJ made the right move. How's that for a straddle?

You just never understood what the Kovy trade was about. It was about one of the leagues best GM's looking at his team and seeing he has great goaltending and making a move to sure up his offense to make a run at the Cup. Here in Buffalo it was about our small time GM not being able to comprehend a move of that magnitude. Failing to recognize what chance a goaltender playing as well as Miller gives his team and failing to not only make the mover but to not even consider it.

 

I just laugh so hard when I see what the Devils gave up get so inflated. They gave up a decent defenseman and winger. A prospect and a pick. For a chance to improve their team this season. A small price to pay which will have no effect on the Devils in the future. As long as Brodeur can play they will be the same old Devils. Losing Brodeur will take "a chunk out of their team" not Oduya or Bergfors. They are easily replaceable.

[nfreeman]

You just never understood what the Kovy trade was about. It was about one of the leagues best GM's looking at his team and seeing he has great goaltending and making a move to sure up his offense to make a run at the Cup. Here in Buffalo it was about our small time GM not being able to comprehend a move of that magnitude. Failing to recognize what chance a goaltender playing as well as Miller gives his team and failing to not only make the mover but to not even consider it.

 

I just laugh so hard when I see what the Devils gave up get so inflated. They gave up a decent defenseman and winger. A prospect and a pick. For a chance to improve their team this season. A small price to pay which will have no effect on the Devils in the future. As long as Brodeur can play they will be the same old Devils. Losing Brodeur will take "a chunk out of their team" not Oduya or Bergfors. They are easily replaceable.

It wasn't so hard to understand. I don't think you failed to understand my point on this, either -- ie that the price was too high and the expected return was too low. Perhaps rather than not understanding, we simply disagreed.

 

As for what the Devils gave up -- I'm glad it makes you laugh. You can call it "a prospect and a pick" if you like, but it's more accurate to say that it was their best prospect and their best draft pick. For teams like the Devils and Sabres, whose organizational philosophy is to stay in the hunt every year by drafting and developing their own players, that is a lot to give up. Again, the price was too high for 28 other GMs. Maybe they know something about valuing organizational assets that you aren't appreciating.

 

Finally, I think you are overvaluing Brodeur as the cornerstone of the Devils. They played very well last year when he missed most of the year with injury (better than this year, actually), and he crapped the bed again in the playoffs last year, directly leading to them getting eliminated. That franchise is much more than a goalie and a bunch of spare parts.

[nfreeman]

Lindy really has us all hoodwinked if we're really trying to justify how bringing a 50 goal scorer to the Sabres would have been a bad thing.

I don't think anyone thinks bringing him here for zero cost would've been a bad thing. It all comes down to the price you pay. As the great song goes, you can't walk away from the price you pay.

 

For 28 NHL GMs, the price was too high. For some fans, the price would've been fine. My point is simply that so far, the results NJ has been getting doesn't justify the price they paid.

[SwampD]

I don't think anyone thinks bringing him here for zero cost would've been a bad thing. It all comes down to the price you pay. As the great song goes, you can't walk away from the price you pay.

 

For 28 NHL GMs, the price was too high. For some fans, the price would've been fine. My point is simply that so far, the results NJ has been getting doesn't justify the price they paid.

This is a nice sound bite but I'm not really sure it's true. Darcy said himself he didn't even try to make a trade for Kovy. Maybe there were other GMs that didn't as well. I personally don't think NJ paid all that much for him and after seeing the trade, maybe he and other GMs didn't think so either. It was just too late to do anything about it but make excuses.

[deluca67]

It wasn't so hard to understand. I don't think you failed to understand my point on this, either -- ie that the price was too high and the expected return was too low. Perhaps rather than not understanding, we simply disagreed.

 

As for what the Devils gave up -- I'm glad it makes you laugh. You can call it "a prospect and a pick" if you like, but it's more accurate to say that it was their best prospect and their best draft pick. For teams like the Devils and Sabres, whose organizational philosophy is to stay in the hunt every year by drafting and developing their own players, that is a lot to give up. Again, the price was too high for 28 other GMs. Maybe they know something about valuing organizational assets that you aren't appreciating.

 

Finally, I think you are overvaluing Brodeur as the cornerstone of the Devils. They played very well last year when he missed most of the year with injury (better than this year, actually), and he crapped the bed again in the playoffs last year, directly leading to them getting eliminated. That franchise is much more than a goalie and a bunch of spare parts.

This is really getting funnier. The "best prospect" and "best pick?" They give out picks every year. Wasn't Gerbe the Sabres "best prospect" at some point? He was easily passed over in favor of Myers and Ennis.

 

I do like the line about the Sabres "staying in the hunt every year." This will be the third playoffs in eight years. If this was hunting the Sabres would have starved to death a long time ago.

[nfreeman]

This is really getting funnier. The "best prospect" and "best pick?" They give out picks every year. Wasn't Gerbe the Sabres "best prospect" at some point? He was easily passed over in favor of Myers and Ennis.

 

I do like the line about the Sabres "staying in the hunt every year." This will be the third playoffs in eight years. If this was hunting the Sabres would have starved to death a long time ago.

Obtuse and obnoxious. Nicely done.

[henysgol]

The Sabres don't have a very glorious history with Russian players, do they? Haven't they all done good for awhile then SUCKED?

[static70]

The Sabres don't have a very glorious history with Russian players, do they? Haven't they all done good for awhile then SUCKED?

For the most part, yes. Except for one, Molginy, the original NHL russian. But I really put the fault on Regier here. Since he took the reins as GM pretty much every Russian they have drafted has either been a bust, or just plain old left town.

 

I will say, no matter anyones feelings on this, it was a real mistake the way Max was handled here. As a point of fact, Regier's mistakes with the Drury/Briere fiasco had more ramifications then just loosing them 2. Max was a casualty of that as well in my opinion.

[deluca67]

Obtuse and obnoxious. Nicely done.

You forgot accurate.

[deluca67]

The Sabres don't have a very glorious history with Russian players, do they? Haven't they all done good for awhile then SUCKED?

I wouldn't count Mogilny in that category. And really, could this same observation be made on US and Canadian players as well.

[henysgol]

I wouldn't count Mogilny in that category. And really, could this same observation be made on US and Canadian players as well.

 

Indeed. But I'm just saying, bad mojo. Like Ilya Kovalchuk would fit in with this team. I don't think so.

[deluca67]

Indeed. But I'm just saying, bad mojo. Like Ilya Kovalchuk would fit in with this team. I don't think so.

The last thing this team needs is offensive talent infiltrating the locker room. :doh:

[SwampD]

You forgot accurate.

That's exactly what I was going to say.