Vanek for Kovalchuk?

[tom webster]

I generally hate Ecklund type trade discussions and I am a fan of Vanek. I also believe that Atlanta will sign Kovalchuk and even if they don't, I'm not sure Kovalchuk would sign here given his comments about Ruff when discussing Max's resurgence.

 

All that being said, I think Buffalo could put the best package together for Atlanta. Atlanta is a lot closer to seriously competing then they were when they traded Hossa so I believe they would want players that can help them this year. A package including Vanek, Mac and either Lydman or a prospect would be hard for any team to beat.

 

While I like Vanek, I think Kovalchuk is in that special class that can take over a game and make his teammates better. To me it would be like trading Turgeon for Lafontaine. Pierre was a solid pro, maybe even a hall of famer but Patty was special.

 

Even if they have to give him a $10 million, it is doable from a cap perspective and for this year would actually lower Buffalo's cap hit.

 

I am not sure if this is worth discussing, but it will be a bit amusing if it someday is listed as an E3.

[sabills]

The other reason tnis is unlikely is because it would mean Darcy would have to actually be willing to trade Vanek. Forget about the cap hit, think about the ego hit to Regier.

[Kristian]

The other reason tnis is unlikely is because it would mean Darcy would have to actually be willing to trade Vanek. Forget about the cap hit, think about the ego hit to Regier.

 

Fixed.

 

I believe his ego gets in the way of trading at least 3/4 of the current roster.

 

Darcy built this team. He likes this team the way it is now. Perhaps there'll be a deadline acquisition of another 3rd/4th line banger, but that's it.

 

To trade any of his skill guys, it would require him admitting being wrong about the direction the league has taken, effectively having his "we need to educate the fans" quote rammed right back down his throat.

[Calvin]

I don't know about this. Ruff does not want a forward who will loaf around on the other team's blue line waiting for passes. His system is dependent on the whole forward line backchecking like monsters and then moving back up the ice as a block.

 

That being said, having Kovalchuk here will immediately solve a lot of PP and scoring issues. Vanek is way too inconsistent for my tastes.

[Kristian]

That being said, having Kovalchuk here will immediately solve a lot of PP and scoring issues. Vanek is way too inconsistent for my tastes.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

If nobody's there to feed him the puck effectively, how's he going to score?

 

And while I'm in no way defending Vanek's streakiness, I think that parking him in front of the net like a 7 mill. Dave Andreychuck is a waste of offense.

 

Sure, do it once in a while to shake things up, keep the other teams guessing, but every single PP? Gimme a break, Lindy.

[LabattBlue]

And while I'm in no way defending Vanek's streakiness, I think that parking him in front of the net like a 7 mill. Dave Andreychuck is a waste of offense.

 

Sure, do it once in a while to shake things up, keep the other teams guessing, but every single PP? Gimme a break, Lindy.

Agree 100%

[Calvin]

And while I'm in no way defending Vanek's streakiness, I think that parking him in front of the net like a 7 mill. Dave Andreychuck is a waste of offense.

 

Sure, do it once in a while to shake things up, keep the other teams guessing, but every single PP? Gimme a break, Lindy.

The best PP combo we saw this year was when Goose was in the blue ice and Vanek in the left circle, where both can play to their strengths.

 

With our recent PP futility, I'd like to see maybe Hecht step in there and move Vanek out to the side again. Much as I like Myers, I don't think he should be on the first PP unit. Tallinder's showing a fine pair of hands this year, he could go on there. So that's TC, Roy, Vanek, Hecht & Tallinder for the first unit. Myers, Sekera, Mac, Stafford & Kennedy (Pommer) could be the second unit.

 

Pommer probably needs to investigate the insides of the press box for a couple of games, but that won't happen until Goose and Grier are back (if at all).

 

We have to do something different, anything!

[PASabreFan]

I generally hate Ecklund type trade discussions and I am a fan of Vanek. I also believe that Atlanta will sign Kovalchuk and even if they don't, I'm not sure Kovalchuk would sign here given his comments about Ruff when discussing Max's resurgence.

 

All that being said, I think Buffalo could put the best package together for Atlanta. Atlanta is a lot closer to seriously competing then they were when they traded Hossa so I believe they would want players that can help them this year. A package including Vanek, Mac and either Lydman or a prospect would be hard for any team to beat.

 

While I like Vanek, I think Kovalchuk is in that special class that can take over a game and make his teammates better. To me it would be like trading Turgeon for Lafontaine. Pierre was a solid pro, maybe even a hall of famer but Patty was special.

 

Even if they have to give him a $10 million, it is doable from a cap perspective and for this year would actually lower Buffalo's cap hit.

 

I am not sure if this is worth discussing, but it will be a bit amusing if it someday is listed as an E3.

 

Vanek and some junk? I dunno. Good post though. You wonder if the people paid the big bucks in the front office think about these things like you do. This franchise is BEGGING for something akin to the Lafontaine trade, which put the paddles to hockey to Buffalo and probably played a big part in getting the new arena built.

[2ForTripping]

Slava and Max have already told Ilya about the fun they had playing under Ruff . It would do wonders for the Sabres to pull off such a move but I think it is a moot point.

[Kevbeau]

 

 

If nobody's there to feed him the puck effectively, how's he going to score?

 

 

 

You're talking about a guy who puts up 40 goals with Todd White feeding him the puck. I'm a big Vanek fan, but as someone who sees Kovalchuk play live 40+ times a season...I pull the trigger on this immediately.

[Kristian]

You're talking about a guy who puts up 40 goals with Todd White feeding him the puck. I'm a big Vanek fan, but as someone who sees Kovalchuk play live 40+ times a season...I pull the trigger on this immediately.

 

What I'm saying is no one player is going to fix the Sabres PP, that's all.

[PASabreFan]

Slava and Max have already told Ilya about the fun they had playing under Ruff . It would do wonders for the Sabres to pull off such a move but I think it is a moot point.

 

Which is why you fire Ruff and go after Kovalchuk or some other dynamic offensive player -- the two moves go hand in hand.

[BetweenThePipes00]

It's the kind of deal they probably need but unless they can be sure he will sign, they can't do that. And like other have said, who knows what Kozlov and Max are telling him. (BTW, Max is reverting to form of late ... five games in December he has one point and is minus-8 ... including a minus-3 game and he is riding a streak of three consecutive minus-2s ... just sayin ... )

 

I wish there was a way they could put together a package for Patrick Sharp ... Lydman/Tallinder would be a good fit because they have playoff experience and their contracts are expiring, which is what Chicago needs to try to win now while also dumping salary for next season. But the rest of the package would have to be young/cheap guys and/or picks ... maybe Gerbe will get hot and make himself attractive ... I don't think it is possible but if you dangle a first-round pick in the package you never know I guess.

 

 

[deluca67]

I generally hate Ecklund type trade discussions and I am a fan of Vanek. I also believe that Atlanta will sign Kovalchuk and even if they don't, I'm not sure Kovalchuk would sign here given his comments about Ruff when discussing Max's resurgence.

 

All that being said, I think Buffalo could put the best package together for Atlanta. Atlanta is a lot closer to seriously competing then they were when they traded Hossa so I believe they would want players that can help them this year. A package including Vanek, Mac and either Lydman or a prospect would be hard for any team to beat.

 

While I like Vanek, I think Kovalchuk is in that special class that can take over a game and make his teammates better. To me it would be like trading Turgeon for Lafontaine. Pierre was a solid pro, maybe even a hall of famer but Patty was special.

 

Even if they have to give him a $10 million, it is doable from a cap perspective and for this year would actually lower Buffalo's cap hit.

 

I am not sure if this is worth discussing, but it will be a bit amusing if it someday is listed as an E3.

Any team looking to deal a difference maker to the Sabres is going to start and end their negotiations with Tyler Myers. The Sabres are dealing from tremendous weakness. They are 20th in goals per game and 19th in power play. Other teams knows there is pressure not only to make the playoffs but to also not waste probably the best non-Hasek season by a Buffalo Sabres goalie ever.

 

Atlanta is in the same position as Florida was last season. They had a star player ready to hit free agency and find themselves in the middle of a playoff race. Atlanta needs to start making the playoffs to continue to try and build their fan base. They can not afford to blow it up in the middle of a playoff race. They probably will keep Kovalchuk until they are either out of playoff contention or wait to deal his negotiating rights after the season.

 

Vanek is and will be a really good player who makes less money. I don't know if the savings of a Vanek contract compared to the cost of a Kovalchuk contract is reflective of the difference in production of each player at this stage of their careers. MacArthur and Lydman? Why would Atlanta want them? Unless you were thinking that Atlanta could just walk away from both at the end of the year? I would imagine they would like to have a much more substantial return than just Vanek.

[static70]

Which is why you fire Ruff and go after Kovalchuk or some other dynamic offensive player -- the two moves go hand in hand.

PA, you and I already had this discussion and you are 100% correct. Firing Ruff allows this to happen and, depending on what coach you bring in, makes Buffalo an instant contender for the cup, which as we all know is why they play the game.

 

I never, ever, will understand why people feel the need to pledge "allegiance" to a player or players and not use common sense to see that the goal in this league is to achieve a successful campaign to win Lord Stanley's Cup.

 

Kovalchuck for a Vanek package deal is the right move to make, but it will never happen with Ruff at the helm, plain and simple.

[Taro T]

I generally hate Ecklund type trade discussions and I am a fan of Vanek. I also believe that Atlanta will sign Kovalchuk and even if they don't, I'm not sure Kovalchuk would sign here given his comments about Ruff when discussing Max's resurgence.

 

All that being said, I think Buffalo could put the best package together for Atlanta. Atlanta is a lot closer to seriously competing then they were when they traded Hossa so I believe they would want players that can help them this year. A package including Vanek, Mac and either Lydman or a prospect would be hard for any team to beat.

 

While I like Vanek, I think Kovalchuk is in that special class that can take over a game and make his teammates better. To me it would be like trading Turgeon for Lafontaine. Pierre was a solid pro, maybe even a hall of famer but Patty was special.

 

Even if they have to give him a $10 million, it is doable from a cap perspective and for this year would actually lower Buffalo's cap hit.

 

I am not sure if this is worth discussing, but it will be a bit amusing if it someday is listed as an E3.

I think the offer would have to include at least Vanek, Mac, Lydman, and a prospect. And, if I knew I could have him signed long term, I'd pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat.

 

The 2 (overcomeable) obstacles to the trade are Kovy's view of playing in Buffalo for Ruff after having heard all about him from Max and our friend Slava; and would Waddell make a trade w/ Darcy after all his crying to the media in '05 about how Darcy simply wouldn't part with a goalie back in '05.

 

The other thing that would be interesting in finding out is what would it have taken besides Peca to get the #1 pick from Atlanta back in '01? The 2 rumors about where Peca might land were Calgary for Iginla or Atlanta for the #1 (which turned out to be Kovy). Had that Atlanta trade happened, we never would have seen Timmy or Taylor Quiet; and maybe Kozlov doesn't sulk all year because he'd be getting to play with the #1 pick. Either way, Kovalchuk's 1st NHL game would have still been in the Mmarena. Oh the possibilities.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Whether it is in a package for Kovy, Sharp or someone else, at some point they have to deal Gerbe or Ennis, don't you think? I can't imagine having both in the same NHL lineup, but they both might make it in the league ... not as all-stars or anything, but they are decent prospects.

[nfreeman]

And while I'm in no way defending Vanek's streakiness, I think that parking him in front of the net like a 7 mill. Dave Andreychuck is a waste of offense.

 

Sure, do it once in a while to shake things up, keep the other teams guessing, but every single PP? Gimme a break, Lindy.

Have you seen Vanek be effective from anywhere else? I think players need to be put where they are most effective, and that is Vanek's sweet spot.

 

Which is why you fire Ruff and go after Kovalchuk or some other dynamic offensive player -- the two moves go hand in hand.

Hmmmmmm. Fire your coach, who's won coach of the year, has been chosen to be part of the Olympic coaching staff and has brought your team to 4 final 4s despite bankruptcy and multiple losses of franchise players, in an attempt to recruit a player who's never won a playoff game. What a great idea.

 

It's the kind of deal they probably need but unless they can be sure he will sign, they can't do that. And like other have said, who knows what Kozlov and Max are telling him. (BTW, Max is reverting to form of late ... five games in December he has one point and is minus-8 ... including a minus-3 game and he is riding a streak of three consecutive minus-2s ... just sayin ... )

 

I wish there was a way they could put together a package for Patrick Sharp ... Lydman/Tallinder would be a good fit because they have playoff experience and their contracts are expiring, which is what Chicago needs to try to win now while also dumping salary for next season. But the rest of the package would have to be young/cheap guys and/or picks ... maybe Gerbe will get hot and make himself attractive ... I don't think it is possible but if you dangle a first-round pick in the package you never know I guess.

1. I think they can't give up Vanek unless an extension is part of the deal, but I'd trade Pommer for him without the extension. It would be worth it to unload Pommer's contract and get Kovy for half a season plus playoffs plus the possibility of an extension.

 

2. Chicago needs to reduce payroll to get under the cap for next year as part of any trade, so they wouldn't be taking back Lydman or Tallinder -- just picks and/or prospects.

 

Any team looking to deal a difference maker to the Sabres is going to start and end their negotiations with Tyler Myers. The Sabres are dealing from tremendous weakness. They are 20th in goals per game and 19th in power play. Other teams knows there is pressure not only to make the playoffs but to also not waste probably the best non-Hasek season by a Buffalo Sabres goalie ever.

 

Atlanta is in the same position as Florida was last season. They had a star player ready to hit free agency and find themselves in the middle of a playoff race. Atlanta needs to start making the playoffs to continue to try and build their fan base. They can not afford to blow it up in the middle of a playoff race. They probably will keep Kovalchuk until they are either out of playoff contention or wait to deal his negotiating rights after the season.

 

Vanek is and will be a really good player who makes less money. I don't know if the savings of a Vanek contract compared to the cost of a Kovalchuk contract is reflective of the difference in production of each player at this stage of their careers. MacArthur and Lydman? Why would Atlanta want them? Unless you were thinking that Atlanta could just walk away from both at the end of the year? I would imagine they would like to have a much more substantial return than just Vanek.

Good post. However, there is NFW the Sabres are trading Myers, and there is also NFW that Atlanta is going to get a player as good as Myers from anyone if they have to unload Kovy at or before the deadline. Also, Kovy is a substantially better player than Vanek -- I'd trade Vanek for him in a heartbeat if the deal included an extension.

[tom webster]

Have you seen Vanek be effective from anywhere else? I think players need to be put where they are most effective, and that is Vanek's sweet spot.

 

 

Hmmmmmm. Fire your coach, who's won coach of the year, has been chosen to be part of the Olympic coaching staff and has brought your team to 4 final 4s despite bankruptcy and multiple losses of franchise players, in an attempt to recruit a player who's never won a playoff game. What a great idea.

 

 

1. I think they can't give up Vanek unless an extension is part of the deal, but I'd trade Pommer for him without the extension. It would be worth it to unload Pommer's contract and get Kovy for half a season plus playoffs plus the possibility of an extension.

 

2. Chicago needs to reduce payroll to get under the cap for next year as part of any trade, so they wouldn't be taking back Lydman or Tallinder -- just picks and/or prospects.

 

 

Good post. However, there is NFW the Sabres are trading Myers, and there is also NFW that Atlanta is going to get a player as good as Myers from anyone if they have to unload Kovy at or before the deadline. Also, Kovy is a substantially better player than Vanek -- I'd trade Vanek for him in a heartbeat if the deal included an extension.

 

 

Actually getting a player that can help them this year with no contract next year is exactly what they would like to do. It would give them flexibility this year without worrying about the "tagging" implications.

[LabattBlue]

...I'd trade Vanek for him in a heartbeat if the deal included an extension.

Which is why Atlanta would probably ask for conditional picks if Kovalchuk signs a new contract with the team he is traded to(if he is traded).

[BetweenThePipes00]

2. Chicago needs to reduce payroll to get under the cap for next year as part of any trade, so they wouldn't be taking back Lydman or Tallinder -- just picks and/or prospects.

 

 

I know they do, that's exactly why Lydman or Tallinder is attractive ... they are free agents after this season. They get out from under Sharp's $4 million+ for next year, add prospects/picks and get a veteran defenseman for a Cup run this season. If they have to make a deal, everyone is going to be offering a package of picks and prospects ... not everyone will have a decent D-man with playoff experience with ZERO cap hit next season to offer. Again, I know it is a longshot, but it's interesting.

[nfreeman]

Actually getting a player that can help them this year with no contract next year is exactly what they would like to do. It would give them flexibility this year without worrying about the "tagging" implications.

I know they do, that's exactly why Lydman or Tallinder is attractive ... they are free agents after this season. They get out from under Sharp's $4 million+ for next year, add prospects/picks and get a veteran defenseman for a Cup run this season. If they have to make a deal, everyone is going to be offering a package of picks and prospects ... not everyone will have a decent D-man with playoff experience with ZERO cap hit next season to offer. Again, I know it is a longshot, but it's interesting.

You're both right. Good call.

 

Which is why Atlanta would probably ask for conditional picks if Kovalchuk signs a new contract with the team he is traded to(if he is traded).

I'd gladly give up Vanek plus our #1 next year for Kovy with an extension.

[PASabreFan]

You're both right. Good call.

 

 

I'd gladly give up Vanek plus our #1 next year for Kovy with an extension.

 

I'd like for SDS to trade you to whitethrashers.com for some old modems.

[nfreeman]

I'd like for SDS to trade you to whitethrashers.com for some old modems.

If you want to stop having your nonsensical theories and paranoid fantasies exposed as such, there's a simple solution.

[static70]

nfreeman, Lindy is a good coach, this is true, but he's a good coach on the defensive side of the game itself.

Although playing defense is a very important aspect of the game, especially for the forwards, scoring goals wins you championships. I don't know, I don't see Lindy winning a Cup with his style.

I mean really, the proof is already in place with 11 years passed already. Nothing against Lindy mind you, the amount of Stanley Cup's brought to Buffalo under his tenure speaks for itself really.

 

You are correct, this is all theory, but, if dumping Ruff brings in Kovalchuck through a trade, Darcy would be wise to make this move. Goal scorers attract more organizational earnings than defensive players and it reignites the flame in the fan base to truly beieve this team is making an effort to win a Championship.

 

Miller is in place, Myers isn't going anywhere, niether is Ennis. Nope, Vanek and 1 of the other top 6 and a D-man and/or prospects/picks should get it done, as long as Kovy signs a longterm contract, probably between 9 and 10 million is my guess for 8 to 10 years.

 

The point is, you can build a team around Kovalchuck, he instantly gives others inflated numbers and value by the virtue of his skill and talent alone, Vanek can't do that I'm afraid.

 

But, its all for not, Ruff is here to stay and Kovalchuck wouldn't dream of playing for him. Darcy is afraid to make a trade of this caliber, why, I honestly don't know, alot of others see the upside.