bottlecap Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 We are all waiting for the Great Austrian Hope...for some reason, the Austrians aren't known for their hockey players. Seriously, I'm not sure Tomas is playing as well as an overall #5 pick should play. It seems this far into his career, he's no Bossy and Roy is no Brian Trottier. Currently he seems to be passing when he should be shooting and vice versa. He doesn't have zip to his game ...5 points in 9 games...uninspired and not good. This could be because: A. He is timid since getting his jaw broken B. He doesn't appreciate being on a line with second-rate talent C. He might want out of Buffalo and is being passive/agressive by intentionally missing his chances ala Mogilny. D. He's traditionally a hot/cold player, just be patient. E. He's spending too many late nights diapering babies. F. We're 8-2-1, shut up. Any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 We are all waiting for the Great Austrian Hope...for some reason, the Austrians aren't known for their hockey players. Seriously, I'm not sure Tomas is playing as well as an overall #5 pick should play. It seems this far into his career, he's no Bossy and Roy is no Brian Trottier. Currently he seems to be passing when he should be shooting and vice versa. He doesn't have zip to his game ...5 points in 9 games...uninspired and not good. This could be because: A. He is timid since getting his jaw broken B. He doesn't appreciate being on a line with second-rate talent C. He might want out of Buffalo and is being passive/agressive by intentionally missing his chances ala Mogilny. D. He's traditionally a hot/cold player, just be patient. E. He's spending too many late nights diapering babies. F. We're 8-2-1, shut up. Any thoughts on this? G. He's a seven million dollar a year player who has scored 150 goals since the lockout, yet his coach gives him 15 minutes of ice time, and it burns him up. Maybe he needs to be The Man. Maybe he needs his coach to believe in him. I mean, seriously... has a player making this much money, with this much talent, on a team that generally struggles to score goals, ever had ice time numbers like this? I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out. And I wouldn't blame him a bit. He was going to be given shorthanded ice time last year, and after 10 games he had a couple of shorthanded goals. He didn't hurt the penalty kill a bit. After that, he saw very little PK time, and it had nothing to do with faceoffs. Coming into this year, Ruff said he would give Vanek elite ice time. Thomas had the perfect reply: "If it happens, that's great." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 A. He is timid since getting his jaw broken I doubt it. If so, he is a wussy-wuss. B. He doesn't appreciate being on a line with second-rate talent If so, tough #%^$#!! C. He might want out of Buffalo and is being passive/agressive by intentionally missing his chances ala Mogilny. He wouldn't be the first player to play that card. D. He's traditionally a hot/cold player, just be patient. Unacceptable. E. He's spending too many late nights diapering babies. I doubt it. F. We're 8-2-1, shut up. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 A. He is timid since getting his jaw broken I doubt it. If so, he is a wussy-wuss. B. He doesn't appreciate being on a line with second-rate talent If so, tough #%^$#!! C. He might want out of Buffalo and is being passive/agressive by intentionally missing his chances ala Mogilny. He wouldn't be the first player to play that card. D. He's traditionally a hot/cold player, just be patient. Unacceptable. E. He's spending too many late nights diapering babies. I doubt it. F. We're 8-2-1, shut up. Everyone has a right to an opinion. As for E., I know these guys don't get flu shots, but don't they at least hire nannies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Be wary of Austrians. Spain, Germany, and California all have their stories about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffano DeBoom Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 We are all waiting for the Great Austrian Hope...for some reason, the Austrians aren't known for their hockey players. Any thoughts on this? He has the bloodlines. He's ethnically a Czech. Wuss by choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheReaper Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Vanek has been extremly unimpressive this season. Bottlecap hit it on the head,hes passing when he needs to shoot and vice versa. But he also seems to be looking to hard for a pretty play. He needs to get back to taking shots,working and skating hard and getting to the net to create traffic and redirects. I'm tried of the Vanek-Roy-Stafford trio,and i would love to see Connolly and Roy trade places. Connolly is hot,Vanek and Stafford are cold. Mac and Pommer are hot,Roy is cold(with his scoring touch). It makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted November 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 it's my opinion that he hasn't been the same beast in front of the net since that broken jaw. but yeah, he could be disgruntled with lack of ice time and Slava Kozlov-itis...ie disgust with Ruff's primitive ways. btw, I've always like Vanek-Pominville-Roy, but it seems Ruff wants to split them up for some reason. Prolly to give Connelly some talent to work with. They really tore it up together in their Rochester days. I just wish Ruff would give those three a chance together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Seems to be that the more confidence Ruff has in him, the better he plays. The more ice time he's given, he better he performs (i.e. the PK time he has early last season). I'd like to see Lindy have more faith in him. A little boost in a players confidence can go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Maybe he needs to be The Man. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the type of game to allow him to be The Man. His game is pretty much within 20 feet of the net. Outside of that, he's not real special. Hard to give a guy the keys when he doesn't even sit in the driver seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 We are all waiting for the Great Austrian Hope...for some reason, the Austrians aren't known for their hockey players. Seriously, I'm not sure Tomas is playing as well as an overall #5 pick should play. It seems this far into his career, he's no Bossy and Roy is no Brian Trottier. Currently he seems to be passing when he should be shooting and vice versa. He doesn't have zip to his game ...5 points in 9 games...uninspired and not good. This could be because: A. He is timid since getting his jaw broken B. He doesn't appreciate being on a line with second-rate talent C. He might want out of Buffalo and is being passive/agressive by intentionally missing his chances ala Mogilny. D. He's traditionally a hot/cold player, just be patient. E. He's spending too many late nights diapering babies. F. We're 8-2-1, shut up. Any thoughts on this? I'll go with D and F. Consider it a luxury that the Sabres have built this record with a streaky bunch on the 1st and 2nd lines and a gritty performance by the 3rd line. I do wonder a bit about A though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 If you could trade Vanek for a player like this, would you? - a forward who is going to get you 25 or so goals and around 60 points every year - is physical - does good work along the boards - plays hard at both ends of the rink - is somewhere in his 20's - is signed for at least the next 3 years or won't hit UFA status for 3 years Basically a guy who has a really solid overall game that is never going to score 30 goals a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 If you could trade Vanek for a player like this, would you? - a forward who is going to get you 25 or so goals and around 60 points every year - is physical - does good work along the boards - plays hard at both ends of the rink - is somewhere in his 20's - is signed for at least the next 3 years or won't hit UFA status for 3 years You mean Dustin Brown? In a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 You mean Dustin Brown? In a second. I didn't have a specific player in mind and LA would never make that trade, but you've got the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 G. He's a seven million dollar a year player who has scored 150 goals since the lockout, yet his coach gives him 15 minutes of ice time, and it burns him up. Maybe he needs to be The Man. Maybe he needs his coach to believe in him. I mean, seriously... has a player making this much money, with this much talent, on a team that generally struggles to score goals, ever had ice time numbers like this? I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out. And I wouldn't blame him a bit. He was going to be given shorthanded ice time last year, and after 10 games he had a couple of shorthanded goals. He didn't hurt the penalty kill a bit. After that, he saw very little PK time, and it had nothing to do with faceoffs. Coming into this year, Ruff said he would give Vanek elite ice time. Thomas had the perfect reply: "If it happens, that's great." Or maybe he needs to play with desperation and effectiveness and earn his minutes. Have you seen anything whatsoever out of him this year to indicate that he deserves more ice time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Have you seen anything whatsoever out of him this year to indicate that he deserves more ice time? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Or maybe he needs to play with desperation and effectiveness and earn his minutes. Have you seen anything whatsoever out of him this year to indicate that he deserves more ice time? The easy answer here is this -- did Pominville last season earn more significant minutes than Vanek, who started the season scoring shorthanded goals and had 24 goals in the first 30 games? Did Hecht, who saw more ice than Vanek? How has rookie Myers earned so much ice time so soon in his career? It's the old chicken and egg argument. This is kind of a prima facie argument. Vanek's a perennial 30 to 40 goal scorer. He was a plus 47 one year! Another team thought he was worth 7 million a year, and the Sabres matched. These guys don't get 15-17 minutes a game. Check out the stats. Vanek is 113th in ice time among all NHL forwards, one second better than the Islanders' Richard Park. That year he scored 43 goals and was plus 47? He was 139th! Do these numbers not perplex you? If you were Vanek, would they not bother/anger you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 The easy answer here is this -- did Pominville last season earn more significant minutes than Vanek, who started the season scoring shorthanded goals and had 24 goals in the first 30 games? Did Hecht, who saw more ice than Vanek? How has rookie Myers earned so much ice time so soon in his career? It's the old chicken and egg argument. This is kind of a prima facie argument. Vanek's a perennial 30 to 40 goal scorer. He was a plus 47 one year! Another team thought he was worth 7 million a year, and the Sabres matched. These guys don't get 15-17 minutes a game. Check out the stats. Vanek is 113th in ice time among all NHL forwards, one second better than the Islanders' Richard Park. That year he scored 43 goals and was plus 47? He was 139th! Do these numbers not perplex you? If you were Vanek, would they not bother/anger you? If his playing time is bothering him to the point where it is effecting his play and he can't deal with it, then there is one answer...ask for a trade. I do agree that it is strange do pay a guy all that money and then not play him more, but that is a decision made by Darcy and Lindy. I have seen Lindy in past years play the 4th line as much as the others, even in games where the Sabres desperately need a goal, but I've become numb to this, much like the handling of the backup goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 If you could trade Vanek for a player like this, would you? - a forward who is going to get you 25 or so goals and around 60 points every year - is physical - does good work along the boards - plays hard at both ends of the rink - is somewhere in his 20's - is signed for at least the next 3 years or won't hit UFA status for 3 years Basically a guy who has a really solid overall game that is never going to score 30 goals a year. Backes, David. http://www.tsn.ca/nh...bname=nhl-blues although UFA in 11-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 The easy answer here is this -- did Pominville last season earn more significant minutes than Vanek, who started the season scoring shorthanded goals and had 24 goals in the first 30 games? Did Hecht, who saw more ice than Vanek? How has rookie Myers earned so much ice time so soon in his career? It's the old chicken and egg argument. This is kind of a prima facie argument. Vanek's a perennial 30 to 40 goal scorer. He was a plus 47 one year! Another team thought he was worth 7 million a year, and the Sabres matched. These guys don't get 15-17 minutes a game. Check out the stats. Vanek is 113th in ice time among all NHL forwards, one second better than the Islanders' Richard Park. That year he scored 43 goals and was plus 47? He was 139th! Do these numbers not perplex you? If you were Vanek, would they not bother/anger you? How did Pommer, Hecht and Myers earn more ice time than Vanek? The question itself provides the answer -- they earned it by earning it, not by projecting an attitude of entitlement. I would like to see Vanek play more, because it would mean that he's earned it. I would definitely NOT like to see Vanek getting ice time that he hasn't earned. When guys like MacArthur, Stafford, Kennedy, Myers, Sekera, etc. see guys like Vanek dogging it on the backcheck and generally playing lazily and suffering no consequences, the virus spreads and pretty soon you have a team where no one is willing to go the extra mile. The best players on the team don't necessarily have to be the hardest workers (although it sure helps), but they can't be the laziest ones either. You've postulated with some frequency that Lindy and DR and others seem too comfortable -- ie there haven't been any consequences for underperformance. Well, the same standard applies to players. I say again: if Vanek is so great, WTF has he been doing in his 15-17 minutes per game so far this year? That's plenty of time to audition for a larger role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Backes, David. http://www.tsn.ca/nh...bname=nhl-blues although UFA in 11-12 Looks like a one year wonder. His scoring is down as are his PM. What happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 How did Pommer, Hecht and Myers earn more ice time than Vanek? The question itself provides the answer -- they earned it by earning it, not by projecting an attitude of entitlement. I would like to see Vanek play more, because it would mean that he's earned it. I would definitely NOT like to see Vanek getting ice time that he hasn't earned. When guys like MacArthur, Stafford, Kennedy, Myers, Sekera, etc. see guys like Vanek dogging it on the backcheck and generally playing lazily and suffering no consequences, the virus spreads and pretty soon you have a team where no one is willing to go the extra mile. The best players on the team don't necessarily have to be the hardest workers (although it sure helps), but they can't be the laziest ones either. You've postulated with some frequency that Lindy and DR and others seem too comfortable -- ie there haven't been any consequences for underperformance. Well, the same standard applies to players. I say again: if Vanek is so great, WTF has he been doing in his 15-17 minutes per game so far this year? That's plenty of time to audition for a larger role. Myers' ice time was quite robust from the very beginning. There's no way he earned it. Lindy recognizes the talent and believes in him. It feeds right into Myers' veins, and it shows in his play. Hecht and Pominville earned good ice time with their play last season? OOOooookkkk. As for the final question, again... maybe Vanek resents being treated like a rookie, or not, as the case may be. Another thing that bugs me, and maybe Bill Hoppe can jump in, is that this story doesn't even appear on the radar in the Sabres media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Myers' ice time was quite robust from the very beginning. Most likely they feel he can handle it and it won't hurt the team. There's no way he earned it. Lindy recognizes the talent and believes in him. It feeds right into Myers' veins, and it shows in his play. Hecht and Pominville earned good ice time with their play last season? OOOooookkkk. Hecht and Pominville had down years but their games seem to be back in form and hustle is rarely a concern with either of these guys. Why does Vanek get so few assists? Is it his linemates or is it something about his game? He never dominates play, he's a finisher, plain and simple. He has a place in the league, right now it's not anything more than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Myers' ice time was quite robust from the very beginning. There's no way he earned it. Lindy recognizes the talent and believes in him. It feeds right into Myers' veins, and it shows in his play. Hecht and Pominville earned good ice time with their play last season? OOOooookkkk. As for the final question, again... maybe Vanek resents being treated like a rookie, or not, as the case may be. Another thing that bugs me, and maybe Bill Hoppe can jump in, is that this story doesn't even appear on the radar in the Sabres media. I'd guess Myers earned a shot at getting good ice time in practice and preseason, and then continued to earn it during the games. As for Pommer and Hecht, perhaps they "backed into" it last year simply by playing less badly than the other forwards. I would expect Vanek to be PO'd about not playing more. The right way to respond is to channel that frustration into playing harder and making Lindy give him more ice time. I agree that this oughta be something that the Sabres' media coverage should be covering. Bill Hoppe responded to it (the ice time question, not the media coverage thereof) in his thread this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm with PA on this one. Vanek at half speed is 10 times as likely to score as Kaleta at full speed (actually, the numbers already prove this to be true). He needs to be on the ice more. Earning your ice time is cute and all, but in the end the game comes down to who scores more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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