wjag Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Been doing some ruminating on the Buffalo PP and why it appears to be in a three year funk. My conclusion, Vanek. Stick with me. The Sabres have played the same old boring PP style now for the better part of three seasons. It basically has a big body (Vanek or Gaustad) parked in front of the net waiting for the tip or the rebound. Teams playing the Sabres know to pressure the point men as they are trying to get the shot where Vanek can tip it. They run this same old boring play every single time. There is zero imagination. I'm wondering if you folks think there is a style other than posting a body in front of the net that should be tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Been doing some ruminating on the Buffalo PP and why it appears to be in a three year funk. My conclusion, Vanek. Stick with me. The Sabres have played the same old boring PP style now for the better part of three seasons. It basically has a big body (Vanek or Gaustad) parked in front of the net waiting for the tip or the rebound. Teams playing the Sabres know to pressure the point men as they are trying to get the shot where Vanek can tip it. They run this same old boring play every single time. There is zero imagination. I'm wondering if you folks think there is a style other than posting a body in front of the net that should be tried. I actually disagree with you. The Sabres appear to have shifted to an umbrella setup on their PP, with three men high and two low. In years past they ran a box with the fifth man planted in front. I attribute some of their futility on the PP to the new system, which appears to still be a work in progress. The umbrella will at times look similar to the box, as the players on the umbrella who is on the same side as the puck will drop lower into the zone to create a numbers advantage. The umbrella is not as rigid in its positioning of the players as the box. In the umbrella it is much for fluid, flowing towards the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Didn't Vanek lead the league in pp goals last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Didn't Vanek lead the league in pp goals last year? Probably. I just wonder if he was moved around and acted more like a sniper if the PP would be better and his stats would be even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric in Akron Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Been doing some ruminating on the Buffalo PP and why it appears to be in a three year funk. My conclusion, Vanek. Stick with me. The Sabres have played the same old boring PP style now for the better part of three seasons. It basically has a big body (Vanek or Gaustad) parked in front of the net waiting for the tip or the rebound. Teams playing the Sabres know to pressure the point men as they are trying to get the shot where Vanek can tip it. They run this same old boring play every single time. There is zero imagination. I'm wondering if you folks think there is a style other than posting a body in front of the net that should be tried. I'm too lazy to look this up but didn't we have a special teams coach leave about three years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Didn't Vanek lead the league in pp goals last year? 20 PP goals. That's half of his total. The single biggest loss to the Sabres PP was of course DB. He was a pure set up man behind the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Probably. I just wonder if he was moved around and acted more like a sniper if the PP would be better and his stats would be even better. I've been complaining about Vanek in front of the net for two years now. He would be much more effective down low on the wing(think Dany Heatley killing the Sabres) versus playing tip drill in front of the net. Of all the things Lindy tinkers with, why this is not one of them, I do not know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm too lazy to look this up but didn't we have a special teams coach leave about three years ago? Scott Arniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Scott Arniel. That's the name! Went to the Manitoba Moose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric in Akron Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Scott Arniel. Thanks Blue... I remember saying to myself, I hope his departure doesn't kill our PP and PK units, because they were on fire. Back in 05-06, there were many games that we came back from being down because our PP units. After he left, our special team units have not had the same swagger. I know some of it is the players on the ice but I think some of it is the change in tactics that a new coach would bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp1 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Been doing some ruminating on the Buffalo PP and why it appears to be in a three year funk. My conclusion, Vanek. Stick with me. The Sabres have played the same old boring PP style now for the better part of three seasons. It basically has a big body (Vanek or Gaustad) parked in front of the net waiting for the tip or the rebound. Teams playing the Sabres know to pressure the point men as they are trying to get the shot where Vanek can tip it. They run this same old boring play every single time. There is zero imagination. I'm wondering if you folks think there is a style other than posting a body in front of the net that should be tried. The power play hasn't been good the first few games, but we were actually 7th in the NHL last year. It's going to take some time to get the new dmen comfortable now that Spacek is gone. http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20092ALLAAAAll&sort=powerPlayPercentage&viewName=summary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The power play hasn't been good the first few games, but we were actually 7th in the NHL last year. It's going to take some time to get the new dmen comfortable now that Spacek is gone. http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20092ALLAAAAll&sort=powerPlayPercentage&viewName=summary And no matter what people thought of him, Kotalik is worth mentioning there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 The power play hasn't been good the first few games, but we were actually 7th in the NHL last year. It's going to take some time to get the new dmen comfortable now that Spacek is gone. Myers will show us the way. Really the only concern is that he will score too many PP goals and make everyone else embarrassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Vs. announcers/commentators were just talking about how scoring is UP in the NHL so far this year! Whodda thunk it? After three games we have four goals for and three against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Vs. announcers/commentators were just talking about how scoring is UP in the NHL so far this year! Whodda thunk it? After three games we have four goals for and three against. Calgary game right? I heard that comment too. Something along the lines of, "Thats what great about the NHL today; you can come back from a 5 goal deficit and win the game. Rewind 2 years ago, that would be unheard of." :unsure: Why do the Sabres keep telling me the league is tighter and more defensive when games like these keep popping up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheReaper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I instantly knew losing Scott Arniel would be a huge blow to our special teams. Brian Mc Cutheon is a horrible PP coach. Imagine if we kept Arniel and then hired James Patrick!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Something along the lines of, "Thats what great about the NHL today; you can come back from a 5 goal deficit and win the game. Rewind 2 years ago, that would be unheard of." Didn't Montreal come back from down 5 two years ago? Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyYbftXn_fM During the 2007-08 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I actually disagree with you. The Sabres appear to have shifted to an umbrella setup on their PP, with three men high and two low. In years past they ran a box with the fifth man planted in front. I attribute some of their futility on the PP to the new system, which appears to still be a work in progress. The umbrella will at times look similar to the box, as the players on the umbrella who is on the same side as the puck will drop lower into the zone to create a numbers advantage. The umbrella is not as rigid in its positioning of the players as the box. In the umbrella it is much for fluid, flowing towards the puck. They are definitely not totally comfortable with it yet, but if they stick with it I think it could be interesting ... we'll see. As someone else said, they were 7th last season and actually their percentage (21.0) was basically the same as it was in Arniel's last year when they were 3rd (21.2) ... so I don't think Vanek being in front is the problem ... if anything teams may be collapsing too much on him, which is why a less rigid system like the umbrella might help, get the defenders moving. Whatever the case, 3 games is too early to scrap it just like 3 games is too early get too excited about the good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I actually disagree with you. The Sabres appear to have shifted to an umbrella setup on their PP, with three men high and two low. In years past they ran a box with the fifth man planted in front. I attribute some of their futility on the PP to the new system, which appears to still be a work in progress. The umbrella will at times look similar to the box, as the players on the umbrella who is on the same side as the puck will drop lower into the zone to create a numbers advantage. The umbrella is not as rigid in its positioning of the players as the box. In the umbrella it is much for fluid, flowing towards the puck. Also, the word was out on the Sabres PP for years - Pressure their forwards on the sideboards hard, they'll cough up the puck, or at least throw a bad pass back to the point man, who is then put under pressure. Ottawa played that strategy to absolute perfection against the Sabres in the 2007 ECF, and other teams just sat down and watched videos of that series prior to playing them ever since. I'm willing to give the new system the benefit of the doubt, at least it shows willingness to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 The power play hasn't been good the first few games, but we were actually 7th in the NHL last year. It's going to take some time to get the new dmen comfortable now that Spacek is gone. http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20092ALLAAAAll&sort=powerPlayPercentage&viewName=summary I instantly knew losing Scott Arniel would be a huge blow to our special teams. Brian Mc Cutheon is a horrible PP coach. Imagine if we kept Arniel and then hired James Patrick!? As someone else said, they were 7th last season and actually their percentage (21.0) was basically the same as it was in Arniel's last year when they were 3rd (21.2) ... so I don't think Vanek being in front is the problem ... if anything teams may be collapsing too much on him, which is why a less rigid system like the umbrella might help, get the defenders moving. Whatever the case, 3 games is too early to scrap it just like 3 games is too early get too excited about the good stuff. So is the PP good, or do the Sabres scrap it? If it was 7th in the league last year, why should they fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I instantly knew losing Scott Arniel would be a huge blow to our special teams. Brian Mc Cutheon is a horrible PP coach. Imagine if we kept Arniel and then hired James Patrick!? If Arniel was such a great PP coach, then how do we account for our PP woes before the lockout? Seriously, I can only remember two years under Ruff where we've had a good PP, and that was the 2000-2001 (thank you Dave) and 2005-2006 seasons, and Arniel didn't take over as PP coach until 2002 if I recall correctly. Much like Afinogenov became an offense-machine overnight, I think we can attribute some of our PP fortunes to the way the game was called in 2005-2006. You simply weren't allowed to lay a hand or stick on anyone, and while less obvious in a special teams situation than in open play, it was still factor. At least, that's how I see it. *edit Just noticed that the Sabres PP last year was almost identical in numbers as to the 2005-2006 team. Wow, what a difference winning or losing has on the memory :blink: As it turns out, the 2000-2001 wasn't anything to write home about, sitting at 16%, although the best PP in the league that year was "only" at 22%. 2001-2004 sits between 13-15% which is fairly crummy too, and 1997 through 1999 is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric in Akron Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just noticed that the Sabres PP last year was almost identical in numbers as to the 2005-2006 team. Wow, what a difference winning or losing has on the memory :blink: As it turns out, the 2000-2001 wasn't anything to write home about, sitting at 16%, although the best PP in the league that year was "only" at 22%. 2001-2004 sits between 13-15% which is fairly crummy too.[/i] I, too, am flabbergasted that the Sabres PP unit ranked so high last year. Maybe the difference is in the number of opportunities dropped last year and therefore, didn't have as large of an impact. I don't know but I didn't think our special teams units were that special last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I, too, am flabbergasted that the Sabres PP unit ranked so high last year. Maybe the difference is in the number of opportunities dropped last year and therefore, didn't have as large of an impact. I don't know but I didn't think our special teams units were that special last year. As with everything else, the PP unit was inconsistent last year. There was a time where they were on fire and then they had several games where it was completely inept. Of course, games like Edmonton (10-2 blowout) where they went 3-for-6 on the PP help a lot, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Maybe the difference is in the number of opportunities dropped last year and therefore, didn't have as large of an impact. While I'm certainly not the one to research it, the Sabres don't have the guys they used to that drew all those penalties. Obviously, Kaleta draws his share with his style but all the tripping/interference/hooking calls that Briere, Afinogenov, Drury and Campbell would create are gone. Not sure if that holds any water but it certainly seems plausible. Throw in the fact the league was actually calling those penalties, and I'm starting to believe it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 If Arniel was such a great PP coach, then how do we account for our PP woes before the lockout? Seriously, I can only remember two years under Ruff where we've had a good PP, and that was the 2000-2001 (thank you Dave) and 2005-2006 seasons, and Arniel didn't take over as PP coach until 2002 if I recall correctly. Much like Afinogenov became an offense-machine overnight, I think we can attribute some of our PP fortunes to the way the game was called in 2005-2006. You simply weren't allowed to lay a hand or stick on anyone, and while less obvious in a special teams situation than in open play, it was still factor. At least, that's how I see it. *edit Just noticed that the Sabres PP last year was almost identical in numbers as to the 2005-2006 team. Wow, what a difference winning or losing has on the memory :blink: As it turns out, the 2000-2001 wasn't anything to write home about, sitting at 16%, although the best PP in the league that year was "only" at 22%. 2001-2004 sits between 13-15% which is fairly crummy too, and 1997 through 1999 is even worse. You want one of the main keys to their success coming out of the lockout? Teppo Numminen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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