wonderbread Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Maybe we need a "Trade Announcements" thread and a "Trade Discussion" thread, so that the former is kept clean. Agreed lets change the title to announced trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Unless I am missing something, they didn't even have to move these guys for cap room. They currently have $13 million in LTIR cap cushion to cover Briere (12/3-end of season, currently), Hatcher (season), Rathje (season), Jones (10/9-12/21) and Parent (10/9-12/28). If they brought Danny back today, they would lose that bonus for the last 46 days of the season, which works out to about $1.7 million ($6.5 million * 46/186.) Currently, they have $2.86 in cap space (including the LTIR cushion.) So, if they brought back Briere, they should still have $1.1 million left. Both Briere and Timonen are returning to the lineup, which I thought might explain the move (i.e., they are coming off LTIR/IR and need the roster spots), but even with those two, they only have 23 players. Hmm ... That $2.856 cushion that is shown on that site appears to be based on the daily hits of the players on the active roster. It doesn't appear to take into account the fact that a team isn't banking any salary room when it's actual averaged payroll (including LTIR'd players) exceeds the cap. Since the Phlyers have had players on LTIR since day 1, they don't have any cushion built up. When Danny's $6.5 gets added to the $51.423 on the active roster (including Metropolit and Vaananen), the active roster goes above $56.7 by ~$1.223. Dropping those 2, the active roster including Danny would be $55.923 which works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 That $2.856 cushion that is shown on that site appears to be based on the daily hits of the players on the active roster. It doesn't appear to take into account the fact that a team isn't banking any salary room when it's actual averaged payroll (including LTIR'd players) exceeds the cap. Since the Phlyers have had players on LTIR since day 1, they don't have any cushion built up. When Danny's $6.5 gets added to the $51.423 on the active roster (including Metropolit and Vaananen), the active roster goes above $56.7 by ~$1.223. Dropping those 2, the active roster including Danny would be $55.923 which works. OK, I guess I need to check the CBA to see how it is written. My understanding, which jives with the numbers shown, is that you get a cushion equal to the player's salary for the days that he is on LTIR. For example, since Danny will be on LTIR for about 90 days, the Flyers basically get a $2.98 million ($6.5 million * 90/186) cap cushion to cover his cap during that time. So, his whole $6.5 million would count, but their cap is $2.98 million higher. If you go with that assumption, adding cap cushion for their five players that have been on LTIR for the time that they were on it (which is the $13 million shown as LTIR replacement cushion), and subtract the total cap hit for all players for the days that they were and will be on the roster (even on LTIR), you get the $2.856 available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 - Habs claimed Glen Metropolit (hopefully, that takes them out of the center market) - Canucks claim Vaananen Edit: Habs also placed Janik on waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 OK, I guess I need to check the CBA to see how it is written. My understanding, which jives with the numbers shown, is that you get a cushion equal to the player's salary for the days that he is on LTIR. For example, since Danny will be on LTIR for about 90 days, the Flyers basically get a $2.98 million ($6.5 million * 90/186) cap cushion to cover his cap during that time. So, his whole $6.5 million would count, but their cap is $2.98 million higher. If you go with that assumption, adding cap cushion for their five players that have been on LTIR for the time that they were on it (which is the $13 million shown as LTIR replacement cushion), and subtract the total cap hit for all players for the days that they were and will be on the roster (even on LTIR), you get the $2.856 available. I think you've got it. :thumbsup: 2 minor points to add to it all. 1st, when a player gets put on LTIR and the team exceeds the salary cap, any cap space the team had banked gets chewed up before the LTIR cap relief hits. 2nd, the team won't necessarily be able to exceed the salary cap by the full value of the player's salary unless they were at the cap when they put him on LTIR. If, say, a team were $1MM below the cap when they wanted to put a $6.5MM player on LTIR, that team would only be able to exceed the salary cap during the LTIR to the tune of $5.5MM because the 1st $1MM of the LTIR'd player salary still counts toward the cap. (Which effectively has the effect of not allowing the team using LTIR to bank any cap savings.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 2 minor points to add to it all. 1st, when a player gets put on LTIR and the team exceeds the salary cap, any cap space the team had banked gets chewed up before the LTIR cap relief hits.2nd, the team won't necessarily be able to exceed the salary cap by the full value of the player's salary unless they were at the cap when they put him on LTIR. If, say, a team were $1MM below the cap when they wanted to put a $6.5MM player on LTIR, that team would only be able to exceed the salary cap during the LTIR to the tune of $5.5MM because the 1st $1MM of the LTIR'd player salary still counts toward the cap. (Which effectively has the effect of not allowing the team using LTIR to bank any cap savings.) Ah, gotcha. Kinda weird. It seems it would make more sense just to say "if the player is on LTIR, then his cap hit during that time doesn't count toward your season cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Ah, gotcha. Kinda weird. It seems it would make more sense just to say "if the player is on LTIR, then his cap hit during that time doesn't count toward your season cap. It definitely would make more sense to state it that way. I'd guess that the league has 2 problems w/ saying it that way. 1 - this was written by lawyers, and they NEVER say anything in a straight forward manner. :D 2 - depending upon the exact wording; a team COULD effectively bypass the salary cap by banking unreplaced injured player salary and then buy a really high priced guy for the end of the season. E.g., say the Phlyers put Hatcher on LTIR on day one and then never replaced him but were somehow allowed to bank his salary. If that happened, and they waited 3/4's of the season to replace him they would be able to replace (for the current season) a $3.5MM player w/ a $10.5MM player. That one is clearly outside the spirit of the salary cap, and due to the way they wrote Article 50, it is also outside the rules governing the salary cap. It's bad enough the Devils managed to make a really poor decision on Mogilny go away by having his playing days end due to a "hip injury" rather than having to live w/ the consequences of that decision due to his playing days being ended by a simple case of him being too old to fly up and down the ice like he once could and him being worthless without that speed. Had the Devils been able to suddenly afford a Pronger or Neidermayer for a playoff run, it would have been a travesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I know this is leaning towards rumor, but anyone who watched the game tonight, saw Bill Guerin scratched at the last minute. Harry Neale said his bags were bagged and said he's more then likey been traded. It's been said on multiple web site that he's been dealt and Mike Milbury confirms that Guerin has been told he's traded. HNIC just reported, his destination is Washington. No links because it's no confirmed yet, HNIC said it will be official Sunday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I know this is leaning towards rumor, but anyone who watched the game tonight, saw Bill Guerin scratched at the last minute. Harry Neale said his bags were bagged and said he's more then likey been traded. It's been said on multiple web site that he's been dealt and Mike Milbury confirms that Guerin has been told he's traded. HNIC just reported, his destination is Washington. No links because it's no confirmed yet, HNIC said it will be official Sunday morning. looking at one of the Islanders message boards, some guy who claims to know "someone" posted this: " Guerin to Devils for Paul Martin." I didn't see anything about Washington, except Guerin for Ovechkin straight up, which is worthy of my dog's dookie in a sandwich bag....... EDIT - Sorry, just realized the "No Rumors" rule. Feel free to remove my post. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 1 thread to list ALL moves is going to be a mess... Sounds good to me. Let there be 100 threads on every subject like on TSW. What do I care. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I thought this was a "just the facts" thread? There's a lot of nonsense that needs to be deleted! :censored: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I thought this was a "just the facts" thread? There's a lot of nonsense that needs to be deleted! Yeah I noticed and I can't help feeling kinda targeted by blue <_< after my available players info got tagged but all this other discussion NOT specific player moves has been allowed... Must be good to be king :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Gerber assigned to AHL by Ott , must pass waivers, Maybe the the Sabs will claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Gerber assigned to AHL by Ott , must pass waivers, Maybe the the Sabs will claim. He just cleared re-entry waivers at the end of the week and nobody claimed him. Doubt anyone will on the way back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 He just cleared re-entry waivers at the end of the week and nobody claimed him. Doubt anyone will on the way back down. I was busy earlier in week and missed that, Wouldn't Ott have been on the hook for a portion of the salary on the re-entry as well ? Can't believe with all the teams looking for some back up no one took a chance on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I was busy earlier in week and missed that, Wouldn't Ott have been on the hook for a portion of the salary on the re-entry as well ? Can't believe with all the teams looking for some back up no one took a chance on him. Yes, half. He's not very good and his salary is $3.7 million vs. Lagace at $2.5 million, who is in a similar position. Even prorated and split, he's not a great option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Why was this unpinned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Why was this unpinned? I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I just hope the Sabres trade deadline moves aren't as disappointing as the Bills free agency signings have been thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I just hope the Sabres trade deadline moves aren't as disappointing as the Bills free agency signings have been thus far. I like the OL they signed from Carolina but the Fitzpatrick signing puzzles me, and the whole Dockery fugg up seems par for the course. Then again, getting rid of Robert Royal is addition by subtraction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I like the OL they signed from Carolina but the Fitzpatrick signing puzzles me, and the whole Dockery fugg up seems par for the course. Then again, getting rid of Robert Royal is addition by subtraction... The Sabres equivalent to these moves would be for the Sabres to waive Max and trade for a Jeff Jilson type. If the Sabres moves are as sellers or buyers I just hope they are done with a clear view of the direction this team wants to go in. I don't want to hear any excuses about them being in a tough position because of the standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 The Sabres equivalent to these moves would be for the Sabres to waive Max and trade for a Jeff Jilson type. If the Sabres moves are as sellers or buyers I just hope they are done with a clear view of the direction this team wants to go in. I don't want to hear any excuses about them being in a tough position because of the standings. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Agreed. I have this growing fear that Sabres won't do anything of any significance. I having a feeling there will be a press conference Wednesday explaining how the Sabres couldn't get anything done because they are dealing from a point of weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have this growing fear that Sabres won't do anything of any significance. I having a feeling there will be a press conference Wednesday explaining how the Sabres couldn't get anything done because they are dealing from a point of weakness. Darcy has already tipped his hand. "You know what the variables are," Regier said (to Bucky). "You just don't know how they're going to play out.... The marketplace hasn't been determined yet. It's still in a tire-kicking mode. The asking price for the few teams selling is pretty high right now. It hasn't settled out yet, and I'm not sure what that will mean going into the deadline..." I mean, it's not like the Sabres are PART of the NHL. We don't participate in determining marketplaces. We sit back, and at 2:55 every deadline day, we understand it, it's just too late. Darcy will always have a fallback position. I've said it before. Everyone surrounding the Sabres is too comfortable. Golisano's investment has multiplied. LQ got a piece of the action. Darcy is GM for life, and Lindy is along for the ride. The "core" got their nice long term deals. Everyone's comfortable, except the fans! As usual. The better analogy with the Bills is that Sabre fans will also grow soft, sell out the arena every night and demand nothing in return, out of a deep seated fear the team is going to be pulled out from under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Darcy has already tipped his hand. "You know what the variables are," Regier said (to Bucky). "You just don't know how they're going to play out.... The marketplace hasn't been determined yet. It's still in a tire-kicking mode. The asking price for the few teams selling is pretty high right now. It hasn't settled out yet, and I'm not sure what that will mean going into the deadline..." I mean, it's not like the Sabres are PART of the NHL. We don't participate in determining marketplaces. We sit back, and at 2:55 every deadline day, we understand it, it's just too late. Darcy will always have a fallback position. I've said it before. Everyone surrounding the Sabres is too comfortable. Golisano's investment has multiplied. LQ got a piece of the action. Darcy is GM for life, and Lindy is along for the ride. The "core" got their nice long term deals. Everyone's comfortable, except the fans! As usual. The better analogy with the Bills is that Sabre fans will also grow soft, sell out the arena every night and demand nothing in return, out of a deep seated fear the team is going to be pulled out from under them. QFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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