That Aud Smell Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 the stinky linky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 the stinky linky. I guess the new guy on the block (Tampa) showed them they could actually start talking to him. Pretty sad that they are still not sure how this CBA works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresOnTheWarpath Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I really hope they don't overpay for Miller. Anything more than $6 a year would be overpaying IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I would be very surpised if they sign Miller to an extension..I feel he will want to wait to see if his play improves next year to max his money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I really hope they don't overpay for Miller. Anything more than $6 a year would be overpaying IMO I'm more concerned with the years vs. the $$$. I'd rather overpay for 3 years than lock him up for 7. I know I am in the minority, but I am not sold on the fact that Miller is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I'm more concerned with the years vs. the $$$. I'd rather overpay for 3 years than lock him up for 7. I know I am in the minority, but I am not sold on the fact that Miller is the answer. I agree...If he wants big money give him a 3yr contract and let him prove it for 2 yrs then extend it later again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresOnTheWarpath Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I'm more concerned with the years vs. the $$$. I'd rather overpay for 3 years than lock him up for 7. I know I am in the minority, but I am not sold on the fact that Miller is the answer. Actually I agree. 3 years at 7 would not be the end of the world. Its the 5-8 year at 6.5-7 a year that I'm worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I guess the new guy on the block (Tampa) showed them they could actually start talking to him. Pretty sad that they are still not sure how this CBA works. sorry, not true. Miller and pommers can't officially be negotiated with until tomorrow because they have a year left on their contracts, they aren't ufa's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 sorry, not true. Miller and pommers can't officially be negotiated with until tomorrow because they have a year left on their contracts, they aren't ufa's. They can throw hints at their agents though. Other teams do it all the time. I think its funny that you can't sign your own players but other teams can buy their rights and then sign them before July 1. I know that's with UFA's but other teams do talk to their players agents' before they are suppose to. If they didn't, most of them would just look clueless and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Actually I agree. 3 years at 7 would not be the end of the world. Its the 5-8 year at 6.5-7 a year that I'm worried about. I agree as well. I don't want to see us lock ourselves into any long-term contracts that could hurt us down the line. I'm fine with 3 years at $6.5M, and if Miller outperforms the contract we'll have Enroth possibly ready to go, and if not, we overpay to keep Miller or we find someone in the FA/trade market. sorry, not true. Miller and pommers can't officially be negotiated with until tomorrow because they have a year left on their contracts, they aren't ufa's. Maybe, maybe not. According to this discussion from another thread, it appears that whether they can negotiate with Miller/Pommers is sort of a gray area open to interpretation, and the Sabres are interpreting more on the side of caution. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 sorry, not true. Miller and pommers can't officially be negotiated with until tomorrow because they have a year left on their contracts, they aren't ufa's. So can you explain how Tampa agreed to a deal with Lecavalier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreNod Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I guess the new guy on the block (Tampa) showed them they could actually start talking to him. Pretty sad that they are still not sure how this CBA works. I guess I have to take back my earlier statement that I'm glad you decided to come back after having been "pwned", as my nephew would say. Comments like this are so ridiculous that I'm left to wonder what really motivates such small-minded negativity. As if DR doesn't know the business...? Please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 So can you explain how Tampa agreed to a deal with Lecavalier? my guess is that official talks and private conversations are completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 My interpretation based on the way this has played out this year and last year is that negotiations can be done prior to July 1st, but no deal or contract extension can actually be signed until July 1st for a player that has one year left on their contract. Given last year when Thornton, Iginla, and Marleau all had deals announced on July 1st, it would lead me to believe that the negotiations had already been completed and they simply signed the contract and made the announcement on July 1st. With regard to the Miller debate, I think we should keep him for about 4-5 years. I'm not big on these 6-7 (lifetime) year extensions for goalies. While I'm a big fan of Ryan Miller, I'm not quite convinced yet that he is an elite goalie say in the top 5 or top 7 goalies in the NHL. My rationale for 4-5 years is that it allows Enroth to play out his entry level deal in the AHL and then serve an apprenticeship to Miller for a couple of years. If Miller is the real deal, then we can trade Enroth and get some value and then give Miller another 2-3 year extension after that. If not, Miller becomes a UFA after 4-5 years and Enroth takes over at about the age of 25, which is about the right time for a goalie to begin as a full time starter in my opinion. Pominville, on the other hand, is someone I'd try to lock up long term. I think he has consistently proven himself over the last three years. He very consistent and is very reliable both offensively and defensively. He's a guy I'd like to keep for a long time. I would not mind keeping Pominville for 6-7 years at $38 million. He's worth it in my opinion. As the cap has gone up, that means the top 5 guys end up eating about $26 million. But given the increase in the cap that's 25% of the team eating 50% of the cap, which is not all that bad given there are some exciting prospects on entry level deals who can replace some of our mid-level players anyway. I would love Pominville in Buffalo for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I guess I have to take back my earlier statement that I'm glad you decided to come back after having been "pwned", as my nephew would say. Comments like this are so ridiculous that I'm left to wonder what really motivates such small-minded negativity. As if DR doesn't know the business...? Please... Mr Quinn went ot great lengths to tell WGR that you weren't allowed to even talk to the players till July 1st. Tampa then announced an agreement with Vinny Lecavalier. Now the Sabres admit to talking to Miller early. You tell me what sounds ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Mr Quinn went ot great lengths to tell WGR that you weren't allowed to even talk to the players till July 1st. Tampa then announced an agreement with Vinny Lecavalier. Now the Sabres admit to talking to Miller early. You tell me what sounds ridiculous. I expect nothing less from the spinmaster. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I think they can do whatever the heck they want. Who is going to stop them? LQ is just an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Pecklund is say E5 Miller is signing tomorrow and taking a contract that allows the Sabres to effectivly build around him...He must be kicking back a Home Depot gift card to LQ to by some blocks and mortar. That is a W-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I guess the new guy on the block (Tampa) showed them they could actually start talking to him. Pretty sad that they are still not sure how this CBA works. This is a bit too critical, IMHO. This is the 4th offseason of the new CBA and it's the 1st time teams have extended their free agents prior to July 1. While it appears that the NHL is going to let it go, it did appear previously that July 1 was the rule. I'm more concerned with the years vs. the $$$. I'd rather overpay for 3 years than lock him up for 7. I know I am in the minority, but I am not sold on the fact that Miller is the answer. I agree...If he wants big money give him a 3yr contract and let him prove it for 2 yrs then extend it later again.. Actually I agree. 3 years at 7 would not be the end of the world. Its the 5-8 year at 6.5-7 a year that I'm worried about. I agree as well. I don't want to see us lock ourselves into any long-term contracts that could hurt us down the line. I'm fine with 3 years at $6.5M, and if Miller outperforms the contract we'll have Enroth possibly ready to go, and if not, we overpay to keep Miller or we find someone in the FA/trade market. LINK Gentlemen, you are kidding yourselves if you think Miller is going to sign for 3 years. It's like saying "the Sabres should trade Max for Sidney Crosby." It assumes away the key issue -- that there is another party that has to agree to the deal. It's going to take at least 5, and probably 6, years at a fat annual salary for Miller to sign. To be clear, if you're saying that the Sabres shouldn't commit to Miller for more than 3 years, what you are really saying is that they shouldn't sign Miller and should either trade him or go into next year with a big fat Drury/Briere situation hanging over the team. Is that what you think they should do? I guess I have to take back my earlier statement that I'm glad you decided to come back after having been "pwned", as my nephew would say. Comments like this are so ridiculous that I'm left to wonder what really motivates such small-minded negativity. As if DR doesn't know the business...? Please... Please check your facts before posting. You are wrong and TW is right. It's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 from what I have gathered by the events happening around the league, the teams can talk and negotiate with their owns players whenever they want, they just cannot sign an extension until a year before they are to become a UFA. It isn't someting new this year, teams have done it in the past (like what was mentioned earlier with Iginla and Thorton, and this year with Lecavalier. As for UFA's, There is nothing wrong with what they are doing now with trading rights. Its something that had started to become big last year and has picked up steam and become bigger this year. Teams are trading away UFA before they walk for free to teams that want to work out a deal. Its the same as if a team trades an UFA at the deadline, and that team ends up re-negotiating a new deal, except that when done after the season, they didn't get to play in any games for the team. Basically, it allows teams losing a player to atleast get something for them, and itallows teams willing to pay a premium for a player pay a price to get the guy they want and keeps the team from getting into a bidding war. The only way to get rid of this is to keep the roster freeze from after the trade deadline to the start of FA and not allow any player movement until then. Now for Miller, there is no way he signs a 3 year deal, the Sabres will have to show they are dedicated to him being their guy and pay up. He is not going to sign something so he can be a place filler until they can see if Enroth is going to be the real deal. Personally if I was him and the Sabre came to me with a 3 year deal, I would tell them that the next negotiations we have will be a year from now and they can send him an offer with the rest of the teams in the league. Of course it would be nice if the Sabres could sign him for pennies a year (and he would be happy) for a couple of year to make sure they don't get burned, but this is the real world, where if on the open market, he would fetch a hefty contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Gentlemen, you are kidding yourselves if you think Miller is going to sign for 3 years. It's like saying "the Sabres should trade Max for Sidney Crosby." It assumes away the key issue -- that there is another party that has to agree to the deal. It's going to take at least 5, and probably 6, years at a fat annual salary for Miller to sign. To be clear, if you're saying that the Sabres shouldn't commit to Miller for more than 3 years, what you are really saying is that they shouldn't sign Miller and should either trade him or go into next year with a big fat Drury/Briere situation hanging over the team. Is that what you think they should do? The question we were discussing wasn't "what will it take to sign Miller LT" rather we're just debating whether we are sold on him as worthy of a $7M+ contract for 5-6 years. I've said all along that he is going to get 4-5 years in the $6M+ neighborhood, but that doesn't mean I believe he's worth that big of a deal - and I'm probably the biggest Miller defender on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 The question we were discussing wasn't "what will it take to sign Miller LT" rather we're just debating whether we are sold on him as worthy of a $7M+ contract for 5-6 years. I've said all along that he is going to get 4-5 years in the $6M+ neighborhood, but that doesn't mean I believe he's worth that big of a deal - and I'm probably the biggest Miller defender on the board. I think Miller is worth $5 million, but I'm not convinced he's a $6 million/year goalie yet. I think I'd give him 5 for $25 million. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I think Miller is worth $5 million, but I'm not convinced he's a $6 million/year goalie yet. I think I'd give him 5 for $25 million. :lol: Sold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 When Ryan starts playing without the sanitary napkin, then we can talk numbers. I have no idea what that means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 from what I have gathered by the events happening around the league, the teams can talk and negotiate with their owns players whenever they want, they just cannot sign an extension until a year before they are to become a UFA. It isn't someting new this year, teams have done it in the past (like what was mentioned earlier with Iginla and Thorton, and this year with Lecavalier. As for UFA's, There is nothing wrong with what they are doing now with trading rights. Its something that had started to become big last year and has picked up steam and become bigger this year. Teams are trading away UFA before they walk for free to teams that want to work out a deal. Its the same as if a team trades an UFA at the deadline, and that team ends up re-negotiating a new deal, except that when done after the season, they didn't get to play in any games for the team. Basically, it allows teams losing a player to atleast get something for them, and itallows teams willing to pay a premium for a player pay a price to get the guy they want and keeps the team from getting into a bidding war. The only way to get rid of this is to keep the roster freeze from after the trade deadline to the start of FA and not allow any player movement until then. Now for Miller, there is no way he signs a 3 year deal, the Sabres will have to show they are dedicated to him being their guy and pay up. He is not going to sign something so he can be a place filler until they can see if Enroth is going to be the real deal. Personally if I was him and the Sabre came to me with a 3 year deal, I would tell them that the next negotiations we have will be a year from now and they can send him an offer with the rest of the teams in the league. Of course it would be nice if the Sabres could sign him for pennies a year (and he would be happy) for a couple of year to make sure they don't get burned, but this is the real world, where if on the open market, he would fetch a hefty contract If he is that thin skinned then they should move him..If he cant realistically look at how he performed last year and realize he needs to show improvement to be a top payed goaltender then I would pass..I think its a moot point altogether though. I believe the Sabres are gonna give him the Big Deal and that they feel he is the kind of player that is gonna put in the effort to be a top goalie..I think Pominville is going to be the tough one to sign between the two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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