spndnchz Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 haven't been around much, so I apologize if someone posted this linky already Spring 2008 prospects Hockeys future list of Sabres prospects: 1. Jhonas Enroth (must be signed by June 1) 2. Andrej Sekera 3. Clarke MacArthur 4. Marc-Andre Gragnani 5. Mike Weber 6. Marek Zagrapan 7. T.J. Brennan 8. Nathan Gerbe 9. Chris Butler 10. Tim Kennedy 11. Michael Funk 12. Vyateslav Buravchikov 13. Philippe Gogulla 14. Dennis Persson 15. Mark Mancari 16. Jean-Simon Allard 17. Drew Schiestel 18. Corey Tropp 19. Felix Schutz 20. Nick Eno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 For reference, here is the previous ranking... Clarke MacArthur, C Andrej Sekera, D Jhonas Enroth, G T.J. Brennan, D Marc-Andre Gragnani, D Michael Funk, D Marek Zagrapan, C Dennis Persson, D Nathan Gerbe, C Mike Weber, D Vyateslav Buravchikov, D Chris Butler, D Drew Schiestel, D Tim Kennedy, LW Mark Mancari, RW Corey Tropp, RW Benjamin Breault, C Mike Card, D Patrick Kaleta, RW Philippe Gogulla, LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 So I guess the obvious questions are: 1. What has Enroth done to jump over Sekera, Weber, Etc... and 2... The one I find most amazing.. How is Kaleta not on that list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Why does enroth need to be signed by June 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 So I guess the obvious questions are:1. What has Enroth done to jump over Sekera, Weber, Etc... and 2... The one I find most amazing.. How is Kaleta not on that list? Kaleta is probably considered "graduated" by the Hockeys Future guys...once a guy looks like he is a permanent fixture on the roster they take him out of the prospect discussions. Enroth didn't jump over a lot of guys - he switched spots with MacArthur and jumped Sekera (going from #3 last year to #1 this year) probably based on his strong showing at the World Juniors and in the Swedish Elite League (one of four nominees for rookie of the year.) Click on the link in the OP for a more detailed analysis of why they ranked guys where and some guys have stats and breakdowns listed. Why does enroth need to be signed by June 1st He was drafted in 2006 so they have his rights until June 1st of this year or he becomes a UFA (I think.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 While Kaleta will be playing an important role, a career 4th liner is not the thing that will ever be considered a top prospect. Some of the others you could probably say the same thing about, but I guess the site see's more potential in them. Enroth: Teams hold the rights of all non-college drafted players until June 1st, 2 years after they are drafted. It has been 2 years since Enroth was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 While Kaleta will be playing an important role, a career 4th liner is not the thing that will ever be considered a top prospect. Some of the others you could probably say the same thing about, but I guess the site see's more potential in them. Enroth: Teams hold the rights of all non-college drafted players until June 1st, 2 years after they are drafted. It has been 2 years since Enroth was drafted. He has the kiss of death for a SAbre and he hasnt even played a minute..Nice knowing ya Enroth..Well at least we can start a thread next yr during the playoffs about him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 He has the kiss of death for a SAbre and he hasnt even played a minute..Nice knowing ya Enroth..Well at least we can start a thread next yr during the playoffs about him.. You should have a list of default posts that you can choose from by now. Just cut and paste... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted May 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Who thinks we sign Enroth by the 1st? tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Who thinks we sign Enroth by the 1st? tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock....... Now they are not sure they have to sign him by the first, and unfortunately, they seem to need a deadline or threat of a deadline to get things done. That being said,I would expect Kennedy to sign this week and Enroth sometime later this month. Maybe they will wait till Bucky writes a column (just kidding but figured I would say it first) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Now they are not sure they have to sign him by the first, and unfortunately, they seem to need a deadline or threat of a deadline to get things done. That being said,I would expect Kennedy to sign this week and Enroth sometime later this month.Maybe they will wait till Bucky writes a column (just kidding but figured I would say it first) No, they only respond to Vogl. But I am surprised that no one pointed out the factual inaccuracy in Bucky's sunday column. :D ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Now they are not sure they have to sign him by the first, and unfortunately, they seem to need a deadline or threat of a deadline to get things done. Not a great business model. On a sidenote...I really wish I was a fly on the wall during the meetings prior to gutting the pro & amateur scouting staff and going to a "video scouting" philosophy. That will forever reek of nothing more than penny pinching at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Now they are not sure they have to sign him by the first, and unfortunately, they seem to need a deadline or threat of a deadline to get things done. Actually, they kind of suck when they let things get close to a deadline ... they either get nothing done or screw it up (Zigomanis) ... most of their long-term deals that were actually signed got done plenty of time to spare and Darcy's best trades never seem to happen on deadline day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico7 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Enroth: Teams hold the rights of all non-college drafted players until June 1st, 2 years after they are drafted. It has been 2 years since Enroth was drafted. I heard Regier talking about this recently and he said something like that since there isn't any agreement with the Euro leagues and the Players association and the NHL, the Sabres are not obligated to sign him by June 1 and they would still retain his rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I heard Regier talking about this recently and he said something like that since there isn't any agreement with the Euro leagues and the Players association and the NHL, the Sabres are not obligated to sign him by June 1 and they would still retain his rights. That sounds hinky ... I mean, couldn't all the players in Europe just as easily try to say that since there is no agreement NO ONE holds their rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico7 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 That sounds hinky ... I mean, couldn't all the players in Europe just as easily try to say that since there is no agreement NO ONE holds their rights? Pretty sure the interview was on WGR. I will see if I can find a link. I know for sure thought that the Sabres do not have to sign him by June 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Pretty sure the interview was on WGR. I will see if I can find a link. I know for sure thought that the Sabres do not have to sign him by June 1 I believe you, just saying that sounds like shaky ground for Darcy to stand on ... if the old rule was 2 years, what if they come to an agreement before they sign him that keeps that rule the same? Then he is screwed ... just seems weird stretch it out on a technicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Actually, they kind of suck when they let things get close to a deadline ... they either get nothing done or screw it up (Zigomanis) ... most of their long-term deals that were actually signed got done plenty of time to spare and Darcy's best trades never seem to happen on deadline day. They mess up with one contract and all of a sudden they suck at it? You do realize that just two years later they signed both Roy and Pominville at the end of the wire, right? They've signed other players right at the deadline too. I'm too lazy to search for the articles, but guys like Dan Paille were signed like that too. They've moved away from that practice in the last two years anyway. Vanek, Stafford, Kaleta, Mancari, Zagrapan, Butler, Gerbe,Weber... all signed well before approaching the drop dead date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I believe you, just saying that sounds like shaky ground for Darcy to stand on ... if the old rule was 2 years, what if they come to an agreement before they sign him that keeps that rule the same? Then he is screwed ... just seems weird stretch it out on a technicality. Actually, the old rule (previous CBA) did not set a limit for players drafted out of europe. The new CBA does not draw that distinction for european players. If Darcy is talking about this, its a very safe bet that the GMs have discussed this issue. Its something that is going to effect far more than just one team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 You should have a list of default posts that you can choose from by now. Just cut and paste... :rolleyes: Quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Actually, the old rule (previous CBA) did not set a limit for players drafted out of europe. The new CBA does not draw that distinction for european players. If Darcy is talking about this, its a very safe bet that the GMs have discussed this issue. Its something that is going to effect far more than just one team. OK, well where did the June 1 deadline come from then? Not arguing with you, I'm really asking. I was going on the assumption there was something to this June 1 deadline, which apparently never existed. They mess up with one contract and all of a sudden they suck at it? You do realize that just two years later they signed both Roy and Pominville at the end of the wire, right? They've signed other players right at the deadline too. I'm too lazy to search for the articles, but guys like Dan Paille were signed like that too. They've moved away from that practice in the last two years anyway. Vanek, Stafford, Kaleta, Mancari, Zagrapan, Butler, Gerbe,Weber... all signed well before approaching the drop dead date. I wasn't talking about kids so much as any negotiations in general. Darcy's best work, be it trades or extensions, is generally (not EXCLUSIVELY) done when there is not a deadline looming. When deadlines get involved, both sides have to compromise to get something done, and I think Darcy often has determined a value for a player and will not budge. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes you lose. Darcy has taken a beating for it over the last year because some popular players have left. I actually like that he is stubborn but sometimes he seems to wait for the perfect deal, be it a trade or the right contract, and some good guys get away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 OK, well where did the June 1 deadline come from then? Not arguing with you, I'm really asking. I was going on the assumption there was something to this June 1 deadline, which apparently never existed.I wasn't talking about kids so much as any negotiations in general. Darcy's best work, be it trades or extensions, is generally (not EXCLUSIVELY) done when there is not a deadline looming. When deadlines get involved, both sides have to compromise to get something done, and I think Darcy often has determined a value for a player and will not budge. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes you lose. Darcy has taken a beating for it over the last year because some popular players have left. I actually like that he is stubborn but sometimes he seems to wait for the perfect deal, be it a trade or the right contract, and some good guys get away. The June 1st limit is set for all players drafted 2 years prior with no distinction between North American Juniors and Euro players in the new CBA. The latest scuttlebut is because there is no transfer agreemet between the NHL and European leagues, that there is no deadline on those players. I haven't heard anyone but Darcy bring it up andlike I have said before, the Sabres are notorious for doing whatever they are allowed to do under the rules when negotiating with players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 The June 1st limit is set for all players drafted 2 years prior with no distinction between North American Juniors and Euro players in the new CBA. The latest scuttlebut is because there is no transfer agreemet between the NHL and European leagues, that there is no deadline on those players. I haven't heard anyone but Darcy bring it up andlike I have said before, the Sabres are notorious for doing whatever they are allowed to do under the rules when negotiating with players. The section in the CBA about retaining draft rights is written very strangely. It mentions the two years specifically in one section for junior players and then later says that non-north american players are held to those same regulations. It makes it look like they had intended something else for the foreign players but later changed it. Yeah, this doesn't mean much of anything, I just think its strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico7 Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 The June 1st limit is set for all players drafted 2 years prior with no distinction between North American Juniors and Euro players in the new CBA. The latest scuttlebut is because there is no transfer agreemet between the NHL and European leagues, that there is no deadline on those players. I haven't heard anyone but Darcy bring it up andlike I have said before, the Sabres are notorious for doing whatever they are allowed to do under the rules when negotiating with players. At least I had it sort of in the ballpark, I guess. Thanks for the insight TW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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